Learning Latin

[Michael_Mayo]

I posted this here because probably most only traditional Catholic here are interested. And yet that is ironic because I am no “Traditional”. I have had an on/off relationship with Latin since 10th grade about 40 years ago. Because of that On/off-ness I still have not mastered it. It gets frustrating. And then I put it down for a while. I can pretty much read the Psalms but only because I am so familiar with them in English. Church documents are beyond my proficiency as are any historical writings.

But something about it gives me comfort. I think because it takes me back to my roots as an altar boy. It seems in my DNA.

I am interested in the experience of others with Latin. How is it going for you?

 

[Nelka]

**

in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti**

 

[pianistclare]

After learning other languages, one realized hoe important the origin of words really is.
I have studied Koine Greek, raised with Spanish, and learned French in high school and college, music major the first time around so we learned Italian too.
It’s wonderful language if you can get past the declensions.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I posted this here because probably most only traditional Catholic here are interested. And yet that is ironic because I am no “Traditional”. I have had an on/off relationship with Latin since 10th grade about 40 years ago. Because of that On/off-ness I still have not mastered it. It gets frustrating. And then I put it down for a while. I can pretty much read the Psalms but only because I am so familiar with them in English. Church documents are beyond my proficiency as are any historical writings.

But something about it gives me comfort. I think because it takes me back to my roots as an altar boy. It seems in my DNA.

I am interested in the experience of others with Latin. How is it going for you?

To learn Latin you have to master the grammar, I mean you have to have the various forms and endings of the parts of speach so perfectly memorized that your can translate them correctly without even thinking about them. The best way to do this is to read passages back and forth between Latin and English ( or whatever your native language may be ), verbally and correctly until you can see the correct grammatical endings in your mind as you go. Sounds impossible but it isn’t but it takes time to get going, a month or so at least - after you have learned all the grammar. Once the grammar is mastered then it is a matter of developing a good vocabulary and Latin is " period bound " like any language. Word meanings change throughout the life of any language. And Latin is no different- as you will see.

And if you are going to be a Latin scholar, the Cassel’s dictionary is simply inadequate. The absolute best dictionary I ever found is the White Latin Dictionary, it is an old one and I don’t know if can be found today. You might be able to find a used one some where if you keep look long enough. And of course if you are doing philosophy and theology then you will want Dictionary of Thomas Aquinas for whatever language you speak.

Pax
Linus2nd .

 

[rasbat]

To learn Latin you have to master the grammar, I mean you have to have the various forms and endings of the parts of speach so perfectly memorized that your can translate them correctly without even thinking about them. The best way to do this is to read passages back and forth between Latin and English ( or whatever your native language may be ), verbally and correctly until you can see the correct grammatical endings in your mind as you go. Sounds impossible but it isn’t but it takes time to get going, a month or so at least - after you have learned all the grammar. Once the grammar is mastered then it is a matter of developing a good vocabulary and Latin is " period bound " like any language. Word meanings change throughout the life of any language. And Latin is no different- as you will see.
.

This is exactly the difficulty. even when you understand it is difficult to figure out what is what. does anybody else get the feeling of trying to undo a combination lock while a mugger is running in your direction. The rules have to line up and the gears in your head just don’t turn fast enough to read fluently. I think only people with the type of mind very gifted in mathematics will take to learning latin with relative ease. it seems to take the same type of thought processes. for everyone else it is toil.

 

[friardchips]

I posted this here because probably most only traditional Catholic here are interested. And yet that is ironic because I am no “Traditional”. I have had an on/off relationship with Latin since 10th grade about 40 years ago. Because of that On/off-ness I still have not mastered it. It gets frustrating. And then I put it down for a while. I can pretty much read the Psalms but only because I am so familiar with them in English. Church documents are beyond my proficiency as are any historical writings.

But something about it gives me comfort. I think because it takes me back to my roots as an altar boy. It seems in my DNA.

I am interested in the experience of others with Latin. How is it going for you?

I have never learnt Latin and I didn’t grow up with it. But when I hear it spoken at an Abbey it feels familiar, and when I tried reading it from a page even though I couldn’t understand what the words meant, just by speaking the words, something felt like ‘home’.

 

[tee_eff_em]

This is exactly the difficulty. even when you understand it is difficult to figure out what is what. does anybody else get the feeling of trying to undo a combination lock while a mugger is running in your direction. The rules have to line up and the gears in your head just don’t turn fast enough to read fluently. I think only people with the type of mind very gifted in mathematics will take to learning latin with relative ease. it seems to take the same type of thought processes. for everyone else it is toil.

Pardon the :twocents: but: You’re doing it wrong.

Do you think the Romans had to hunt for the verb, and identify a nominative subject (if one is explicit), and all the other bad habits ingrained by many Latin classes today? Don’t you think they must have been able to read fluently? :coffeeread:

Admittedly, Vulgar Latin (with a more English-like word order and more reliance on prepositions) is easier than Classical Latin, but even Classical has a proper structure and flow. B Dexter Hoyos (University of Sydney, Australia) has good resources on reading Latin fluently.

Poetry will drive you nuts, of course, with word order devised for meter rather than fluency of meaning.

tee

Se sedeatis audiatis
fabulam itineris
infamis de porto tropico
coepit in naviculo.

 

[CruceSignati]

I’m taking a Latin course this year. Learning lots so far, but I still have quite a ways to go.

 

[rasbat]

well… it makes sense that I have bad latin habits, as bad latin classes is exactly where I have been. the mention of my previous professor’s class and teaching methods elicited groans from other faculty. a year and a half of formal classes and I can basicly read childrens story books, and understand prayers and much of the mass etc. I am doing french these days on my own. has anyone else tried these assimil courses? they have been really good these past few months. they make a latin one too but only with french notes inside. anyone know of anything similar to this for learning latin for english speakers. it has almost zero grammar jargon inside and just gives endless examples of concepts in action through quite humorous readings.

 

[Crimson_Skies]

Latin is a language I’d love to learn, but I know next to nothing at the moment.
Or even at least how to pronounce half the words!!

I’m not really in a rush or anything, but I think it’d be great to have that little bit of knowledge.

 

[oldgraymare2]

well… it makes sense that I have bad latin habits, as bad latin classes is exactly where I have been. the mention of my previous professor’s class and teaching methods elicited groans from other faculty. a year and a half of formal classes and I can basicly read childrens story books, and understand prayers and much of the mass etc. I am doing french these days on my own. has anyone else tried these assimil courses? they have been really good these past few months. they make a latin one too but only with french notes inside. anyone know of anything similar to this for learning latin for english speakers. it has almost zero grammar jargon inside and just gives endless examples of concepts in action through quite humorous readings.

Hi rasbat,

I am so sorry that your Latin classroom course, didn’t work out for you.

I have only done classroom courses, when it comes to taking language classes. There are also free on-line websites too, where you can study languages. I have looked at various ones, for brushing up on my French, for example.

I have never looked at the assimili courses.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Hans Oerberg’s *[post=2538762]Lingua Latina per se Illustrata[/post] *is an inductive rather than a grammar-based course. Many teachers swear by it.

tee

 

[CruceSignati]

Hans Oerberg’s *[post=2538762]Lingua Latina per se Illustrata[/post] *is an inductive rather than a grammar-based course. Many teachers swear by it.

tee

This is what our instructor is using for the online course. I quite enjoy it!

 

[ProVobis]

To learn Latin you have to master the grammar, I mean you have to have the various forms and endings of the parts of speach so perfectly memorized that your can translate them correctly without even thinking about them. The best way to do this is to read passages back and forth between Latin and English ( or whatever your native language may be ), verbally and correctly until you can see the correct grammatical endings in your mind as you go. Sounds impossible but it isn’t but it takes time to get going, a month or so at least - after you have learned all the grammar. Once the grammar is mastered then it is a matter of developing a good vocabulary and Latin is " period bound " like any language. Word meanings change throughout the life of any language. And Latin is no different- as you will see.

And if you are going to be a Latin scholar, the Cassel’s dictionary is simply inadequate. The absolute best dictionary I ever found is the White Latin Dictionary, it is an old one and I don’t know if can be found today. You might be able to find a used one some where if you keep look long enough. And of course if you are doing philosophy and theology then you will want Dictionary of Thomas Aquinas for whatever language you speak.

Pax
Linus2nd .

The only White dictionary I could find was downloadable as a 'borrow" but my computer apparently was too slow to get all of it. (I had it running overnight and it was still running in the a.m.)

What about Lewis and Short?

I admit I use Cassell’s. Maybe not the best but it does have usage by Cicero, Livy, et al. For example, “servus” and “famulus” are both translated as “servant,” but Cicero used “famulus” to designate “servant of the deity.” (’“famulus” is used in the Canon of the Mass.)

Thanks for your suggestions, though. I’ll try for White again later.

 

[anonymous1995]

I use Collins Concise Dictionary since I was not aware of the presence of Lewis&Short. I hope I did… Very often I look up on Wiktionary though it is not an authoritative source.

I took a short Introductory Latin course last summer and later on maintains the habit of daily reading and self-learning. I subscribed to Grex Latine Loquentium, a Latin-only email group. I also joined a free online Latin Study Group and completes Vulgate translation exercises from time to time. As a result, I am now confident to understand simple Collect and Introit texts without any aid. I know the noun declensions and verb conjugations fairly well - though far from fluent.

I have Scanlon’s First and Second Year Latin textbooks, but I don’t really have time to dig into them page by page - and sometimes it is boring to start over when you already know some basic grammar. I have Essentials of Latin Grammar published by McGraw Hill which exactly tells me what I want to know about fundamental syntax of Latin.

My aim is that after a long period of self-learning, I can ultimately finish my Wheelock Latin Reader, read the Vulgate fluently and write Latin well after doing Bradley’s Arnold Latin Prose Composition - it will take a decade though. Caesar, Ovid, Cicero, Vergil, Sallust, Tacitus and various Classical authors, as well as Venerable Bede, Thomas Aquinas and Church Fathers, are pending…

I strongly encourage every conscious Catholic to learn Latin and subsequently Koine Greek. It is indeed an enriching experience to communicate with an ancient Civilization which for many centuries has continued to nurture our Catholic Church with Her legacy.

Interestingly, there is no OF Missals in Latin or Vulgate in my local Catholic Bookshops as if Latin is irrelevant to the Church today… I lament for the scarcity of Latin resources in a Catholic bookstore.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I strongly encourage every conscious Catholic to learn Latin and subsequently Koine Greek. It is indeed an enriching experience to communicate with an ancient Civilization which for many centuries has continued to nurture our Catholic Church with Her legacy.
(

Koine Greek is a great other challenge. I find it sufficient just to use an interlinear Greek/English New Testament and then just do word study on particular words.

 

[anonymous1995]

Koine Greek is a great other challenge. I find it sufficient just to use an interlinear Greek/English New Testament and then just do word study on particular words.

Have you learnt Latin before? If so, how many years have you spent on Latin before delving into Koine Greek? Will the knowledge of Latin be transferable to Koine Greek?

Do Greek Church Fathers write in Koine Greek?

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Have you learnt Latin before? If so, how many years have you spent on Latin before delving into Koine Greek? Will the knowledge of Latin be transferable to Koine Greek?

Do Greek Church Fathers write in Koine Greek?

I studies Latin in high school nad then dabbles in and out of it for 50 years. You’d think I would know a lot more by now. The knowledge of sentence structure and parts of speech is transferable to all languages. But most of the vocabulary is very different. It is enough for me to focus on Latin because of the specific vocabulary and grammar. You will find some early fathers writing in Greek and I suppose if you want in to Eastern Orthodox you would find a lot more.

 

[Zooey]

I was a lot better at Latin 50 years ago, when I was taking it in high school…
But my way of getting it back is that I get out my Bibles-- with myDouay-Rheims (Challoner) & my Vulgate balanced them in my lap, I find that I can follow nicely along in them.
Good translators make great re-learning tools. The Douay Rheims is :thumbsup:word for word from the Vulgate–even at the price of making it a bit “stiff & formal” in the English. If you have had any Latin at all in the past, I recommend it.
Yes, I use Cassell’s; my mother’s copy & my own, from when I took her Latin classes back in the day.

 

[Thomas_White]

I first encountered Latin as an alter boy in the pre-Vatican II days, and it was largely rote learning in the 6th grade. But I later studied Latin in high school, also during the pre-Vatican II era, and continued with Latin courses in college. Consequently, I prefer the Latin Mass and have never been quite comfortable with what I and many others with a similar background view as the less contemplative and therefore far less spiritual Mass as it is said in the vernacular.

I agree grammar is of major importance in studying Latin. I would encourage anyone interested in traditional Catholicism to find a Latin missal and attend a Tridentine Mass. One could proceed from there if there were genuine interest.