Learning more about the Orthodox faith

[Michael85]

I would very strongly advise you not to attend an “Orthodox” service. They are in schism.

Traditionally, it has always been considered a mortal sin for a Catholic to attend a non-Catholic religious service. If there is a good reason for attending (e.g. your Protestant best friend is getting married in a Protestant church), then you are not to actively participate in the service - i.e. you say none of the prayers, sing none of the hymns and sit when they kneel.

If this seems extreme to you, then this shows just how much the virus of ecumenism has infected the Catholic Church. Read Pope Pius XI’s encyclical Mortalium Animos, and you will see that he forbids ecumenical gatherings.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I would very strongly advise you not to attend an “Orthodox” service. They are in schism.

Traditionally, it has always been considered a mortal sin for a Catholic to attend a non-Catholic religious service. If there is a good reason for attending (e.g. your Protestant best friend is getting married in a Protestant church), then you are not to actively participate in the service - i.e. you say none of the prayers, sing none of the hymns and sit when they kneel.

If this seems extreme to you, then this shows just how much the virus of ecumenism has infected the Catholic Church. Read Pope Pius XI’s encyclical Mortalium Animos, and you will see that he forbids ecumenical gatherings.

I am a convert to Catholicism who is not pleased with the annulment process.
Not sure if I will remain in the Catholic church.

 

[prodromos]

I would very strongly advise you not to attend an “Orthodox” service. They are in schism.

Your Popes don’t set very good examples then. Many have attended Orthodox liturgies.

 

[Vico]

I would very strongly advise you not to attend an “Orthodox” service. They are in schism.

Traditionally, it has always been considered a mortal sin for a Catholic to attend a non-Catholic religious service. If there is a good reason for attending (e.g. your Protestant best friend is getting married in a Protestant church), then you are not to actively participate in the service - i.e. you say none of the prayers, sing none of the hymns and sit when they kneel.

If this seems extreme to you, then this shows just how much the virus of ecumenism has infected the Catholic Church. Read Pope Pius XI’s encyclical Mortalium Animos, and you will see that he forbids ecumenical gatherings.

---

Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism*
Approved, March 25th, 1993, by His Holiness St. Pope John Paul II**

Sharing in Sacramental Life, especially the Eucharist

a) Sharing in Sacramental Life with members of the various Eastern Churches

1. Between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Churches not in full communion with it, there is still a very close communion in matters of faith.125 Moreover, “through the celebration of the Eucharist of the Lord in each of these Churches, the Church of God is built up and grows in stature” and “although separated from us, these Churches still possess true sacraments, above all—by apostolic succession—the priesthood and the Eucharist…”.126 This offers ecclesiological and sacramental grounds, according to the understanding of the Catholic Church, for allowing and even encouraging some sharing in liturgical worship, even of the Eucharist, with these Churches, “given suitable circumstances and the approval of church authorities”.127 It is recognized, however, that Eastern Churches, on the basis of their own ecclesiological understanding, may have more restrictive disciplines in this matter, which others should respect. Pastors should carefully instruct the faithful so that they will be clearly aware of the proper reasons for this kind of sharing in liturgical worship and of the variety of discipline which may exist in this connection.
2. Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for any Catholic for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick from a minister of an Eastern Church.128
3. Since practice differs between Catholics and Eastern Christians in the matter of frequent communion, confession before communion and the Eucharistic fast, care must be taken to avoid scandal and suspicion among Eastern Christians through Catholics not following the Eastern usage. A Catholic who legitimately wishes to communicate with Eastern Christians must respect the Eastern discipline as much as possible and refrain from communicating if that Church restricts sacramental communion to its own members to the exclusion of others.
4. Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and the anointing of the sick to members of the Eastern Churches, who ask for these sacraments of their own free will and are properly disposed.

In these particular cases also, due consideration should be given to the discipline of the Eastern Churches for their own faithful and any suggestion of proselytism should be avoided.129

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_25031993_principles-and-norms-on-ecumenism_en.html

 

[Wannabe_Monk_16]

The circumstances in which canon law permits Catholics to receive communion from an Orthodox priest are limited, but I would not characterize those circumstances as being limited to “rare, life-threatening situations.” The relevant canon actually states:

“Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.”

Oh, right. That’s what it is. Thanks for the correction!

 

[Wannabe_Monk_16]

I am a convert to Catholicism who is not pleased with the annulment process.
Not sure if I will remain in the Catholic church.

No! Please stay!! Why would the annulment process dissuade you from staying in the Catholic Church?

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by Michael85
I would very strongly advise you not to attend an “Orthodox” service. They are in schism.

Meh, who has time to pay attention to what the Popes have said or done when I can get advice anonymously on the internet?

 

[Peter_J]

No! Please stay!! Why would the annulment process dissuade you from staying in the Catholic Church?

I would like to second that sentiment. If the annulment process were reason enough to stop attending your parish, then it seems to me that almost every church of any denomination in the world would be empty because people could find some good reason to stop attending it.

 

[7_Sorrows]

No! Please stay!! Why would the annulment process dissuade you from staying in the Catholic Church?

it is archaic…among other things.

 

[Michael85]

Just forget what the post-conciliar Popes have done with regard to ecumenism. The 1917 Code of Canon Law forbade communicatio in sacris (sharing in sacred things) with non-Catholics. There was no good reason why such a teaching should be changed. Has the ecumenical endeavour led hordes of Protestants, Orthodox, Muslims, Hindus etc into the Catholic Church? No, it hasn’t.

Consider St Margaret Clitherow, who suffered imprisonment rather than attend an Anglican service. This is the sort of attitude that Catholics should have toward attending non-Catholic services. Embracing the modern ecumania is in effect saying that St Margaret Clitherow was wrong and suffered imprisonment for nothing.

I am a convert to Catholicism who is not pleased with the annulment process.
Not sure if I will remain in the Catholic church.

Please stay!!!

I am also undergoing the annulment process, and I am frustrated with how slow it’s going. But I won’t let something like that draw me out of Christ’s Church. The question you should ask yourself is, 'Will I follow Christ wherever He leads me?" That I will.

 

[Peter_J]

Meh, who has time to pay attention to what the Popes have said or done when I can get advice anonymously on the internet?

Just forget what the post-conciliar Popes have done with regard to ecumenism.

Now you’re getting it.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Just forget what the post-conciliar Popes have done with regard to ecumenism. The 1917 Code of Canon Law forbade communicatio in sacris (sharing in sacred things) with non-Catholics. There was no good reason why such a teaching should be changed. Has the ecumenical endeavour led hordes of Protestants, Orthodox, Muslims, Hindus etc into the Catholic Church? No, it hasn’t.

Consider St Margaret Clitherow, who suffered imprisonment rather than attend an Anglican service. This is the sort of attitude that Catholics should have toward attending non-Catholic services. Embracing the modern ecumania is in effect saying that St Margaret Clitherow was wrong and suffered imprisonment for nothing.

Please stay!!!

I am also undergoing the annulment process, and I am frustrated with how slow it’s going. But I won’t let something like that draw me out of Christ’s Church. The question you should ask yourself is, 'Will I follow Christ wherever He leads me?" That I will.

definitely slow!

 

[Vico]

Just forget what the post-conciliar Popes have done with regard to ecumenism. The 1917 Code of Canon Law forbade communicatio in sacris (sharing in sacred things) with non-Catholics. There was no good reason why such a teaching should be changed. Has the ecumenical endeavour led hordes of Protestants, Orthodox, Muslims, Hindus etc into the Catholic Church? No, it hasn’t.

Consider St Margaret Clitherow, who suffered imprisonment rather than attend an Anglican service. This is the sort of attitude that Catholics should have toward attending non-Catholic services. Embracing the modern ecumania is in effect saying that St Margaret Clitherow was wrong and suffered imprisonment for nothing.

Please stay!!!

I am also undergoing the annulment process, and I am frustrated with how slow it’s going. But I won’t let something like that draw me out of Christ’s Church. The question you should ask yourself is, 'Will I follow Christ wherever He leads me?" That I will.

The conditions for Catholic reception of valid sacraments from Apostolic non-Catholic sister churches is given in the CIC Canon 844 and corresponding canon of CCEO.

 

[Peter_J]

The conditions for Catholic reception of valid sacraments from Apostolic non-Catholic sister churches is given in the CIC Canon 844 and corresponding canon of CCEO.

Hmmm … I’m guessing that the old idea that obstinate heretics should be executed would not be politically correct enough for your taste?

P. S. Okay, okay, I’ll give in on that one. The obstinate heretics can live.

 

[commenter]

Your Popes don’t set very good examples then. Many have attended Orthodox liturgies.

When a pope attends a church service with another communion, it no longer is an “orthodox liturgy”, nor is it a “Catholic liturgy”. It is something else. I am sure attendance and participation by a Catholic clergy is not in the norms for “Orthodox liturgies”.

They set aside those norms when the pope comes, and there is a modification for ecumenical purposes.

For myself, a good guideline is, “not everything that is permissible is prudent”. I am not necessarily against visiting an Orthodox church, or any other church. I am just saying it is not a bad idea to discuss with your own priest. One layperson’s knowledge is different from another’s, and one non Catholic church is very different from another.

It may well be a good experience.

 

[Casilda]

I am a convert to Catholicism who is not pleased with the annulment process.
Not sure if I will remain in the Catholic church.

I am a revert and that process, along with my husband’s conversion, destroyed our marriage, when attempting to regularize it in accordance to current, local Latin Catholic ‘procedures’.

So my reversion failed and so did his conversion.

We took a sidestep from both Latin Catholic and Orthodoxy into Eastern Catholicism. They are governed by a different canon law and it’s implementation is much more on the human level.

The basis of faith for Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the same. Catholicism has suffered from too many scholastic minutia similar to pharisitical laws that cripple believers. The shepherd is suppose to feed and care for their flocks. Something I see in the eastern churches.

 

[Wannano]

Hmmm … I’m guessing that the old idea that obstinate heretics should be executed would not be politically correct enough for your taste?

P. S. Okay, okay, I’ll give in on that one. The obstinate heretics can live.

So the old idea that obstinate heretics should be executed was espoused by the Church. So many just blame it on the temporal government of the day. Honesty is a step forward.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I am a revert and that process, along with my husband’s conversion, destroyed our marriage, when attempting to regularize it in accordance to current, local Latin Catholic ‘procedures’.

So my reversion failed and so did his conversion.

We took a sidestep from both Latin Catholic and Orthodoxy into Eastern Catholicism. They are governed by a different canon law and it’s implementation is much more on the human level.

The basis of faith for Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the same. Catholicism has suffered from too many scholastic minutia similar to pharisitical laws that cripple believers. The shepherd is suppose to feed and care for their flocks. Something I see in the eastern churches.

So in Eastern Catholicism there is no annulment process? I think Eastern Catholics priests can also marry, correct?
Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[Peter_J]

So the old idea that obstinate heretics should be executed was espoused by the Church. So many just blame it on the temporal government of the day. Honesty is a step forward.

Was it espoused by some Christians? Yes, yes it was. (Perhaps you’re more familiar than I with the details of that, e.g. how many Popes espoused it.)

Was it espoused by the bride of Christ (aka the church)? I don’t think so!

P. S. Hopefully it goes without saying that some of my previous posts on this thread weren’t 100% Ernest, but knowing some of the “stuff” I’ve read on discussion forums I figured I had better say so.

 

[Casilda]

So in Eastern Catholicism there is no annulment process? I think Eastern Catholics priests can also marry, correct?
Thank you for sharing your experience.

I didn’t say that, but that their ‘laws’ and most certainly their implementation are different. I know a lot of Latin Catholics who are divorced and remarried through Latin annulments. I do not know ANY Eastern Catholics that are divorced.

It must be that their marriage prep is more discerning and pastoral care for married couples is better, or that teaching on marriage is more fundamental.

Yes, if a married man wants to become a priest or deacon he may do so. But a once a priest, a man may not marry. Our bishops are never married. I believe this is the same for the Orthodox.