Learning to Pray in Latin

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If you redefine older to mean a certain thing, you can say Greek. But, if you are trying to deny the thousands of years of Church documents and Academia in general being in Latin, along with many of the classic works…then there’s something just hand waving about that.

And yes, Latin helps to bring unity to the Church.
Ecclesiastical Latin is a tad different from other forms of Latin in the changing of language.
If you are trying to deny that Latin is the language of the Church Universal, that’s just weird.

I think schools should teach Latin, at least in the West due to a bunch of reasons.
 
But, if you are trying to deny the thousands of years of Church documents and Academia in general being in Latin, along with many of the classic works…then there’s something just hand waving about that.
I’m absolutely not denying or suggesting that most of the Western church’s documents for a millennium and a half were in Latin.

But these are not what we would normally mean by “older works”. I think most people will think of the Church Fathers for those–and those documents, like most things for the Church of the first four centuries, were in greek (unless you redefine those funny characters as “Latin” 🙂 ).

hawk
 
Tertullian, Cyprian of Carthage, Gregory the Great, Augustine of Hippo, Ambrose of Milan, and Jerome…
 
As I said . . .

Tertullian did indeed first contribute as the second century was wrapping up. The rest of your list are third to seventh century.

hawk
 
And are Church Fathers.

We’re in the 21st century since the birth of Our Lord. I don’t know why you want to constrict the old writings to such a short time period which misses out on the Latin Fathers and when Christianity was illegal for most of the time…
 
The early Church Fathers were heavily influenced by the moral code of Cicero, specifically De Officiis. (Of civil duties). There is an English translation but it loses the nuance.
 
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We’re in the 21st century since the birth of Our Lord. I don’t know why you want to constrict the old writings to such a short time period which misses out on the Latin Fathers and when Christianity was illegal for most of the time…
I’m not trying to restrict it. I’m pointing out that calling the latin “older writings” is ignoring the actual, well, older writings before Rome changed to the vernacular.

To give Latin a special “Holy status” or to elevate it over other languages based on this period just isn’t reasonable or historically accurate.

hawk
 
And in doing that, it’s ignoring the thousands of years of older writings of the saints, doctors, theologians, Latin fathers, pretty much all of Academia, history, etc.

Not to mention Church documents.

Very shortly after becoming legal and no longer having to be an underground Church, we went to the UNIFIED language of Latin. Ecclesiastical Latin is the language of the Church. That is enough for a high esteem of it.
 
Ecclesiastical Latin is the language of the Church.
Well, sort of. The working language of the Vatican is now Italian. I don’t think it stretches the imagination too much to think Italian may become simply the language of the Church. Not a bad thing, in a way, it chants well, and it is close to Latin.

My attachment to Latin really is because of the huge patrimony of Gregorian chant that begs preservation not as museum pieces to be sung at concerts from time to time, but in a living, active liturgical context.
 
If it is imagined “to become” Italian, then what is the language of the Church now?

The Vatican released stuff in the vernacular around the area most likely, but I doubt they will just turn their backs on thousands of years of tradition.
 
NOONE here is degrading Latin.

NOONE is putting Latin down.

NOONE is suggesting getting rid of it, at least in this context.
. Ecclesiastical Latin is the language of the Church.
Of the Roman Catholic Church, yes. Of the dozens of other Catholic churches (let alone the Orthodox), no.

hawk
 
The Syriac Catholic church uses Aramaic for their liturgical language.
 
The working language, the lingua franca, of the Church is Italian. The “official” language is still Latin.

The Church has been around since well before Latin was the “official” language, and there is no reason why at some time in the next couple of thousand years some other language might take its place.

And as mentioned, Latin is only the official language of one of the 23 sui juris Churches in communion with Rome.

However as I said the Roman Church has a large patrimony in Latin, and I believe that merits preservation, and also scholars who will remain familiar with Latin.
 
So what?

The See of Peter traditionally is in Rome, not because the Church liked Latin, or because Latin was a “holy” language (considering it was the language of the executioners of Christ, and the language of the oppressors and executioners of many early Christians), but because Peter went there, and died there, and because the successors of Peter were there for a significant number of centuries. And without getting into the facts that there were patriarchs in various areas, and the Bishop of Rome was one of those, the ulitmate authority was recognized as those consecrated bishops who in succession became the Patriarch, and ultimately named the Pope, seated in Rome.

As Roman military expanded its control over larger and larger parts of the (roughly) western known world, Latin, being first the language of the military, and subsequently of commerce, spread rapidly, and eventually the Church moved from Greek, which had been the language of commerce, to Latin.

The Church, meanwhile, flourished in eastern areas over which the Roman empire had little or no control. As Latin was adopted by the Church, it became the official language, even as commerce turned more to area languages and Latin became less and less used. It is no stretch at all of common sense that Rome continued to use Latin as its official language, as Latin continued throughout the Roman rite, which had spread over a larger population than other Eastern rites; and Rome would continue to correspond with the other Eastern rites, using Latin as it did with correspondence within the Roman rite. However, the Eastern rites would translate the Latin correspondence into their own languages. In short, their liturgical language was effectively also the the language of the people, and over time, those liturgical languages may not have kept pace with the language of the populace, but remained their liturgical language.

As to Latin being the “holy” language, there are any number of people who promote that idea; but their foundation is at best suspect. It is the language of the Roman rite, which is both the language of the largest rite and the See of Peter; but it is no more nor less holy than any of the other liturgical languages. And not to make too fine a point of it, the move to the vernacular for liturgy in the Roman rite certainly does not support the issue of “holiness” of Latin.

People have all sorts of opinions, and many of those opinions are based far more on emotions than anything; and thus are not worth disputing.

No one I know of or have heard of has chronicled how Latin has fallen off within the upper divisions of the Roman rite, but I recollect John Paul 2 lamenting that Latin was being used less and less among the hierarchy (and the reference appeared to be specifically among the Curia and those in Rome involved with the Curia). So it should be no surprise that Italian may be taking over the day-to-day communications.
 
YouTube definitely helps, learning the words with music, and reciting them over and over. Good luck! God bless.
 
as Latin continued throughout the Roman rite, which had spread over a larger population than other Eastern rites;
quibble: In extent today, yes. Before Islamic conquest, the Christian East was bigger, even including swaths of modern China. The territory was lost, though.
and Rome would continue to correspond with the other Eastern rites, using Latin as it did with correspondence within the Roman rite.
This I’ve never heard; you have my curiosity.

The latin speaking western empire barely survived the legalization of Christianity, and the councils published in Greek. But you have my curiosity up.
In short, their liturgical language was effectively also the the language of the people, and over time, those liturgical languages may not have kept pace with the language of the populace, but remained their liturgical language.
It’s always been important in the East that the vernacular be the liturgical language, or at least be understandable–although there are definite exceptions, such as the Maronites instance on using Christ’s language, rather than their own, for the Anaphora.

hawk
 
Because when you memorize it you OWN it. It’s yours. I own a few prayers in Latin myself.
 
My opinion is that it doesn’t matter what language to use. The important thing is you know what you are saying and you understand the words you utter.
I love Latin and also Hebrew. I think they are beautiful. And to use it in prayer is nice.
Hence my stand is, if you do, do it well please. There’s nothing worse than reciting a bunch of foreign words you don’t understand. But if you do it well, then I agree yes, it may even be better than English in a certain sense.

And always be on guard about the Devil. If a lot of people start praying in Latin and not actually thinking about what they are saying I bet you the Devil will be laughing his pants off.
 
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