Leaving before commuion?

[YoungTradCath]

Is the faith about rules? I know Jesus said that he is the judge, but do we have to act like lawyers? When we face Him in the final tribulation, will we be arguing like a lawyer pointing out Canon Laws and CCC sections on what we followed?

Must we pull out “What would Jesus do?” for every argument? I’m not going to infer what Jesus would do. I can apply the values learned from His Gospels, though. I’ll wait until Jesus or the Church tells me what I should do on a certain subject.

Our faith is not about rules, no. But rules are absolutely essential to it, for they provide a framework for supporting the faith. The faith is organic, and rules are not. But the two are, in many ways, co-dependent.

We do have to act like lawyers, yes, because we are imperfect humans, and we need chasing around to act right, unfortunately.

As imperfect as your assertion is that the faith is not about rules, so is mine that faith absolutely is. We do need hard and fast rules that are set in stone, yes, but there are exceptions to most of them. One of the most attractive things to me, as a former Protestant, was the absoluteness of the Church, and the way she codified her tenants so beautifully and logically.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Must we pull out “What would Jesus do?” for every argument? I’m not going to infer what Jesus would do. I can apply the values learned from His Gospels, though. I’ll wait until Jesus or the Church tells me what I should do on a certain subject.

Our faith is not about rules, no. But rules are absolutely essential to it, for they provide a framework for supporting the faith. The faith is organic, and rules are not. But the two are, in many ways, co-dependent.

We do have to act like lawyers, yes, because we are imperfect humans, and we need chasing around to act right, unfortunately.

As imperfect as your assertion is that the faith is not about rules, so is mine that faith absolutely is. We do need hard and fast rules that are set in stone, yes, but there are exceptions to most of them. One of the most attractive things to me, as a former Protestant, was the absoluteness of the Church, and the way she codified her tenants so beautifully and logically.

Where did I say "what would Jesus do?

No, we do not need hard and fast rules. If you see the level of scrupulosity on CAF, you’d see the weakness of a legalistic approach to faith. Besides, legalism trivializes the faith. Why do we have to follow rules? It turns the faith into some sort of reward system where those who obey the rules are good, and those who break the rules are bad. Is our goal in life to obey the rules? Is obeying the rules for the sake of obeying the rules what pleases God?

For example, if you go to church on Sunday because you want that proverbial checkbox ticked that you fulfilled your obligation on Sunday, then you completely missed the point why the rule was there in the first place.

Another weakness legalism presents. If one asks a question, they are presented with CCC, CIC, whatever document of Vatican quotes saying we must do this. So we do something because the law says we do it. How does that attain us salvation? How does that make us be more like God? How does that make us love our neighbor more?

Just look at this thread. People are discussing what document said where to what part of Mass we must be there for. No one even argues why we need to be there in the first place. And I’m not talking about Canon Law saying we must be there. The real reason why we go to Mass every Sunday.

 

[A_Catholic]

I can’t judge anyone who leaves early; they may have an emergency. However, I can’t believe that half the people in the church all have an emergency - and every Sunday.

I agree with Joe. Unless you are involved in a life and death situation, as one poster said, what could be so important that you can’t spend a couple of extra minutes to the end of Mass? In fact, it is recommended that we stay a few minutes after Mass to give thanksgiving. There are many graces attached to receiving communion, but we have to do our part. An interesting article from EWTN:

To prepare, one should think in advance about what he/she is going to do, especially during the Mass. After receiving, it is valuable to try for recollection, in humility to adore the Lord present we adore the Lord present within us, to give thanks, to express sorrow for deficiencies, to ask for helps to do better. It is very good to stay a few minutes after the end of the Mass to continue this thanksgiving.

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/euchb2.htm

Receiving Jesus is not like popping a pill and expecting it to work. We must be in the right frame of mind both before and after receiving Communion.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I would note that Judas is patron non-saint of those who leave early.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Where did I say "what would Jesus do?

No, we do not need hard and fast rules. If you see the level of scrupulosity on CAF, you’d see the weakness of a legalistic approach to faith. Besides, legalism trivializes the faith. Why do we have to follow rules? It turns the faith into some sort of reward system where those who obey the rules are good, and those who break the rules are bad. Is our goal in life to obey the rules? Is obeying the rules for the sake of obeying the rules what pleases God?

For example, if you go to church on Sunday because you want that proverbial checkbox ticked that you fulfilled your obligation on Sunday, then you completely missed the point why the rule was there in the first place.

Another weakness legalism presents. If one asks a question, they are presented with CCC, CIC, whatever document of Vatican quotes saying we must do this. So we do something because the law says we do it. How does that attain us salvation? How does that make us be more like God? How does that make us love our neighbor more?

Just look at this thread. People are discussing what document said where to what part of Mass we must be there for. No one even argues why we need to be there in the first place. And I’m not talking about Canon Law saying we must be there. The real reason why we go to Mass every Sunday.

We do absolutely need hard and fast rules, because without them, our Church would degenerate. Do you think priests wear chasubles because they really want to? Do you think we sing the Sanctus at mass because choirs really love that song? I’m sure that in some cases, the answers to these questions is “yes.” But I’m also even more sure that the answer is “no” in the majority of cases, and the only reason priests wear chasubles and choirs sing the Sanctus at every mass is because they have to. If these rules went away, I guarantee that many priests would just drop wearing chasubles, and many choirs will drop the Santcus, and if not immediately, then certainly over a span of time.

The fact of the matter is, attending mass is a requirement, and has been for as long as I know. If the requirement were removed, I’m pretty certain that even more people would just not go. Do most people go to mass because they want to? Probably. But if Suzie is in bed and worked two hours overtime yesterday, wakes up when her 10:30 alarm goes off to remind her about 11:30 mass, and Suzie knows His Holiness just decreed to the world that attending mass is no longer required, Suzie probably ain’t gonna go to mass. Yes, proverbial checkboxes are absolutely necessary.

We are imperfect humans. We have the clergy, our “God professionals,” per se, to keep us in line. Just like I want a trained person cutting my hair with precision, so too do I want a trained person getting me closer to God. We need rules to do that, because we are imperfect. Documents, the CIC, and especially the CCC, are THERE for us, so that the “whats” and the “whys” and the “whos” of crazy academic theology can be translated into understandable language. Those documents are the finished public product of Catholic teaching and theology. Part of the presentation of that information is making mandatory rules. Yes, rules absolutely are necessary.

I will go so far as to say that it is an act of love on the part of the Church, and therefore on the part of God, that we DO have the rules we do, and I thank Him and His Church for them.

 

[adstrinity]

Leaving before Holy Communion is an ancient tradition.

Leaving just after Holy Communion is something Judas did.

Either these people have a pressing urgency, don’t know any better, or don’t love God. Either way, pray for them that they will be graced to spend all the Mass and a few minutes afterwards adoring God, they will be graced with wisdom to know that they are being rude and disrespectful, they will be graced to love God.

You have noticed this, this is now parto ffor what you must pray.

 

[ConstantineTG]

We do absolutely need hard and fast rules, because without them, our Church would degenerate. Do you think priests wear chasubles because they really want to? Do you think we sing the Sanctus at mass because choirs really love that song? I’m sure that in some cases, the answers to these questions is “yes.” But I’m also even more sure that the answer is “no” in the majority of cases, and the only reason priests wear chasubles and choirs sing the Sanctus at every mass is because they have to. If these rules went away, I guarantee that many priests would just drop wearing chasubles, and many choirs will drop the Santcus, and if not immediately, then certainly over a span of time.

The fact of the matter is, attending mass is a requirement, and has been for as long as I know. If the requirement were removed, I’m pretty certain that even more people would just not go. Do most people go to mass because they want to? Probably. But if Suzie is in bed and worked two hours overtime yesterday, wakes up when her 10:30 alarm goes off to remind her about 11:30 mass, and Suzie knows His Holiness just decreed to the world that attending mass is no longer required, Suzie probably ain’t gonna go to mass. Yes, proverbial checkboxes are absolutely necessary.

We are imperfect humans. We have the clergy, our “God professionals,” per se, to keep us in line. Just like I want a trained person cutting my hair with precision, so too do I want a trained person getting me closer to God. We need rules to do that, because we are imperfect. Documents, the CIC, and especially the CCC, are THERE for us, so that the “whats” and the “whys” and the “whos” of crazy academic theology can be translated into understandable language. Those documents are the finished public product of Catholic teaching and theology. Part of the presentation of that information is making mandatory rules. Yes, rules absolutely are necessary.

I will go so far as to say that it is an act of love on the part of the Church, and therefore on the part of God, that we DO have the rules we do, and I thank Him and His Church for them.

You missed my point. Jesus himself condemned following rules for the sake of following the rules. The overtly legalistic approach to faith is wrong. When people know the rules more than why the rules are there in the first place, then the rules have lost their meaning.

As I said, look no further than this thread. Has there anyone even argued about the spiritual advantage of being there for the entire Mass? Since the thread started, everyone’s been talking what the rules are. Knowing the rules and abiding them doesn’t give you the knowledge and appreciation of why we do what we do in the first place.

Rules aren’t necessary. But we can use them for sure. But when rules is seen as more important than the spiritual realities of our faith, then something is very, very wrong.

 

[YoungTradCath]

You missed my point. Jesus himself condemned following rules for the sake of following the rules. The overtly legalistic approach to faith is wrong. When people know the rules more than why the rules are there in the first place, then the rules have lost their meaning.

As I said, look no further than this thread. Has there anyone even argued about the spiritual advantage of being there for the entire Mass? Since the thread started, everyone’s been talking what the rules are. Knowing the rules and abiding them doesn’t give you the knowledge and appreciation of why we do what we do in the first place.

Rules aren’t necessary. But we can use them for sure. But when rules is seen as more important than the spiritual realities of our faith, then something is very, very wrong.

If it sets you at ease, I am a strong proponent of life catechism.