Leaving Mass before the last song has finished?

[promethius]

Does no one have ANY respect for the choir up there singing their hearts out? And the fact that the songs are sung prayer??

The recessional is not a prayer. It is not part of the mass. It may be reverent and prayerful, but it is not prayer.

I don’t think we should judge the people with small children, especially if we see that they have been spirited throughout the mass. But the people who are rushing out and for some reason can’t stand to wait 3 minutes for the song to end…I don’t understand it.

You don’t have to understand why people aren’t following your chosen personal devotions. They aren’t following them for any number of reasons:

1. you have no authority to impose such a practice on them
2. they disagree with your idea of personal piety or don’t find particular reverence to God in said act.
3. They don’t have time
4. It’s not required (or even suggested) in any disciplinary teaching of the church
5. etc, etc, etc.

And sorry, but I can’t help but notice because when people are shuffling out after the priest, it’s quite distracting. And it’s rude to me when I’m trying to finish the song and people and pushing past me to get out of the pew. If the mass was truly over, I would think the choir would stop singing by the time the priest leaves.

Mass is over when the priest says “The mass is ended”. Technically people can leave then, BEFORE the priest leaves. They generally don’t because by social convention this is considered rude. But mass is over before the choir has even sung the first word of the recessional hymn.

But it will never change, and people will always be rushing out to get to breakfast 3 minutes faster. I don’t have a right to judge, that is true, but I’m not going to stop singing my prayers so I can let someone out of a pew faster.

I should warn you that when people try to hold me in the pews, I place my hand on my belt buckle and loudly say “I have to use the restroom and you are holding me here. We can do this the easy way, or we can do this the messy way”.

If you feel like having that sentence directed at you quite audibly, by all means, hopefully we can run into each other at mass some time!

 

[styrgwillidar]

No, actually, music was an integral part of Jewish liturgical prayer in the synagogues of Jesus’ time–the Torah portions were sung, for instance, as were some responses from the assemby–and was part of the Mass from the very beginning. …

And frankly, it is not about your experience.

Thank you for your detailed response. It is appreciated. I didn’t want to take the space duplicating the whole thing, but I enjoyed it.

However, two things-

If music was essential to the mass, then all masses would have singing or music. The fact that masses do not have to have music/singing indicates it is not essential.

It is about my experience. Just as mass is about your experience for you as well.

2559 “Prayer is the raising of one’s mind and heart to God or the requesting of good things from God.” But when we pray, do we speak from the height of our pride and will, or “out of the depths” of a humble and contrite heart? He who humbles himself will be exalted; humility is the foundation of prayer, Only when we humbly acknowledge that “we do not know how to pray as we ought,” are we ready to receive freely the gift of prayer. “Man is a beggar before God.”

If the music or singing distracts me, it does in fact inhibit me from raising my mind and heart to God. Personal flaw perhaps in the opinion of some, but it is what it is. We need to know ourselves well enough to ensure our experience of the mass optimizes our ability to benefit spiritually.

I appreciate the fact that the Church acknowledges there are those like me and provides a mass without music. Again, the Church would not do so if singing/music were central to the mass.

 

[jwinch2]

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Couldn’t resist posting this one. Our priest actually called people out on leaving early a few weeks ago which I was pleasantly surprised by.

 

[Blossoming]

We all know the parishioners who leave mass after recieving The Eucharist, and I’m sure we all agree that this is disgraceful. However, so many people leave the Church before the final song has concluded, literally walk out straight after the Priest.

I know that the mass offically ends when the Priest gives his final blessing, but this drives me crazy!! We always stay till the very last note is sung and by then there are very few people left!

Thoughts?

Thanks

I think it’s incredibly rude on their part. Almost no one in our Church does this and I’m glad they don’t.

 

[Catholicpotato]

We all know the parishioners who leave mass after recieving The Eucharist, and I’m sure we all agree that this is disgraceful. However, so many people leave the Church before the final song has concluded, literally walk out straight after the Priest.

I know that the mass offically ends when the Priest gives his final blessing, but this drives me crazy!! We always stay till the very last note is sung and by then there are very few people left!

Thoughts?

Thanks

I am always amazed by these threads.
First, CONGRATULATIONS on most of you being in a parish where this is the “problem” It honestly makes me laugh because you are all so lucky to be in a parish where people would WANT to stay. In my parish we have a silly fun ridiculousl song at the end of Mass, usually accompanied by some kind of “hand jive” or similair small dance while singing songs that rarely reference God. Stay for that, ummmm no thanks Id rather take my light out into the world and perhaps quietly reflect when I get home.
Second I am amazed by the gall that many have, judging others for leaving including that “church” that has “judas left the Mass early” How welcoming to the person who honestly needs to leave for just reasons. Imagine, your child needs you and is going into surgery, you stop by for mass on the way to the hospital, praying for your child, then realizing that Father’s homily on how the Church needs to be more progressive ran way long you recieve our Lord, and the blessing to be sent on your way, as you leave that sign catches your eye, That 'church" you just recieved our Lord at putting doubt in your mind at being a Judas… my my how Catholic.
Perhaps praying for those leaving before you have finished your concert would be a better way to spend your time. How can one just recieve the Eucharist, and immediatly throw charity and loving ones neighbor out the window in exchange for judgement and being a busybody. Seems as if some of the ones staying for the hip hoppin beats should spend a little more time living the Gospel instead of singing it.

 

[promethius]

I think it’s incredibly rude on their part. Almost no one in our Church does this and I’m glad they don’t.

Rude to whom? The choir? They should get over it. The mass is not a concert and not about them. Rude to you? Nobody is responsible for protecting your overly delicate sensibilities about when people are to leave after the dismissal (which properly ends the mass).

Rude to Christ? Then it would be a sin, and you would be able to show me church documents that state we should not leave before the choir finishes singing the recessional hymn.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you for your detailed response. It is appreciated. I didn’t want to take the space duplicating the whole thing, but I enjoyed it.

However, two things-

If music was essential to the mass, then all masses would have singing or music. The fact that masses do not have to have music/singing indicates it is not essential.

It is about my experience. Just as mass is about your experience for you as well.

2559 “Prayer is the raising of one’s mind and heart to God or the requesting of good things from God.” But when we pray, do we speak from the height of our pride and will, or “out of the depths” of a humble and contrite heart? He who humbles himself will be exalted; humility is the foundation of prayer, Only when we humbly acknowledge that “we do not know how to pray as we ought,” are we ready to receive freely the gift of prayer. “Man is a beggar before God.”

If the music or singing distracts me, it does in fact inhibit me from raising my mind and heart to God. Personal flaw perhaps in the opinion of some, but it is what it is. We need to know ourselves well enough to ensure our experience of the mass optimizes our ability to benefit spiritually.

I appreciate the fact that the Church acknowledges there are those like me and provides a mass without music. Again, the Church would not do so if singing/music were central to the mass.

I think you’re describing an issue with the music. For instance, note what the GIRM says: However, in the choosing of the parts actually to be sung, preference is to be given to those that are of greater importance and especially to those which are to be sung by the Priest or the Deacon or a reader, with the people replying, or by the Priest and people together.

IOW, skip the entrance, offertory, communion, and recessional songs before you dispense with singing the Kyrie, the Responsorial Song, the Preface Dialogue, the Sanctus, the Agnus Dei, and so on.

How often does that happen?

Also note that the GIRM also says this: *The main place should be given, all things being equal, to Gregorian chant, as being proper to the Roman Liturgy. *

So imagine that what was considered music essential to the Mass was not the opening and closing songs, whoever they were written by or however they are performed, but rather the use of chant in at least the major prayers of the Mass itself. How different would your experience of assisting at Mass together with with the priest and assembly be then? It isn’t an addition in that case, but rather the optimal case of offering certain prayers of the Mass via chant instead of plain recitation.

That’s a different world from what is usually in mind of when we talk about the essential place of music at Mass, though, isn’t it? That is what I meant, though, by saying that music ought to be considered an ancient practice long-considered essential to liturgy rather than a late-coming ornament. If you’re saying processional and recessional songs are not essential, I think that is true from the standpoint of what the rubrics call for.

 

[Blossoming]

Rude to whom? The choir? They should get over it. The mass is not a concert and not about them. Rude to you? Nobody is responsible for protecting your overly delicate sensibilities about when people are to leave after the dismissal (which properly ends the mass).

Rude to Christ? Then it would be a sin, and you would be able to show me church documents that state we should not leave before the choir finishes singing the recessional hymn.

Rude to the people who are still finishing their Mass as others push past them in the tiny pews to get out quick, their weekly duty done.

 

[promethius]

Rude to the people who are still finishing their Mass as others push past them in the tiny pews to get out quick, their weekly duty done.

Maybe those people who want to remain in the pews should consider the special requirements of their personal devotion and, to avoid being rude, take the seats in the middle of the pews where they won’t be in peoples’ way who want to leave when mass is over?

Have you considered that attempting to enforce your personal devotions on others and obstructing their leaving the pews after mass is the rude thing to be doing here?

And what if I consider leaving within a half hour of the dismissal to be rude? Do I have a right to obstruct the pews so that you can’t leave, and then, worse, to come online and call you rude and insinuate that you don’t appreciate the sacrifice of the mass? No. If there are people who want to stay after the mass to suit their own personal desires for a private practice, then they are the ones who need to take steps to minimize their impacts to others.

 

[Corki]

Rude to the people who are still finishing their Mass as others push past them in the tiny pews to get out quick, their weekly duty done.

Of course it’s rude to push someone in order to leave the pew. But what does that have anything to do with the music? It is just as rude to push past someone who wants to kneel and pray after Mass or who wants out of the parking lot ahead of you.

Mass is finished before the recessional song even begins. After that, if everyone just used some patience and civility it would be great. If you want to leave, fine. If you want to stay and sing/listen to the music, fine. If you want to stay and pray, fine.

 

[PatriceA]

Rude to the people who are still finishing their Mass as others push past them in the tiny pews to get out quick, their weekly duty done.

Its just as rude to not allow someone to get past you in the pew when they need to leave.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Rude to whom? The choir? They should get over it. The mass is not a concert and not about them. Rude to you? Nobody is responsible for protecting your overly delicate sensibilities about when people are to leave after the dismissal (which properly ends the mass).

Rude to Christ? Then it would be a sin, and you would be able to show me church documents that state we should not leave before the choir finishes singing the recessional hymn.

Rude to Jesus in the Tabernacle. It’s also rude by social standards.

 

[Blossoming]

Rude to Jesus in the Tabernacle. It’s also rude by social standards.

Yes.

 

[promethius]

Rude to Jesus in the Tabernacle. It’s also rude by social standards.

If it is rude to Jesus in the Tabernacle, then it is a violation of rubrics (and most likely a sin). Please, therefore, show me this in a church document. Show me anything authoritative stating that it is normative for the laity to remain in the pews until the end of the recessional hymn.

This seems to be the one critical peice that no one advocating this practice can produce to show that it’s anything more than an optional personal devotion…

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Leaving Mass Early
Have you ever felt the need to leave Mass early for whatever reason? Maybe you are running late for a
brunch with friends or you have a ballgame to attend – or NFL Sunday is about to begin. Have you ever
thought that if the situation were different, you might not be so inclined to step out before the final
blessing? What if it was dinner at your CEO’s house or you were on a date with somebody you cared
for very deeply? Would you walk out early on those people?
Leaving before the final blessing or last hymn is largely a Catholic phenomenon. This early exodus is
rarely seen in Protestant services or even those in Mormon Tabernacles and Jehovah’s Witness halls.
Why many Catholics so eager to make a beeline for the door before the Mass and the hymns are
completed? We rush out of the Church and practically run each other over in the parking lot in an effort
to be the first ones off the property. Is this behavior indicative of faithful Christians or of those of us
who simply feel that there are more important things we can be doing with our time? God must be first
in our lives – everything else is secondary.
Part of the problem may be that since attending Mass on Sunday is an obligation, some feel that they can
leave as soon as the obligation is met. One should never see Mass simply an obligation - but as an
opportunity. At every Mass, we are brought to Calvary as the eternal sacrifice of Jesus is re-presented
before us. It is truly an honor and a blessing that we are witnesses to this sacrifice. It is, after all, this
sacrifice that redeemed the world and allows us to obtain eternal salvation and be with God in heaven.
We should see Mass as something we get to do – not something we have to do.
If we are in a situation where we have to be somewhere else while Mass is taking place – perhaps it
would be better to attend Mass at a different time. On any given Sunday, there is a Mass being
celebrated every half-hour within driving distance. Many parishes also offer Saturday night vigil
Masses or on Sunday evenings. Is our post-Mass appointment so urgent that it is necessary for us to
leave the physical presence of our Lord with such haste? Are we like the sleeping Apostles who
abandoned Jesus in his hour of need in the Garden of Gethsemane in Matt. 26:36-46? Jesus said to
them, “So you could not keep watch with me for one hour? Watch and pray that you may not undergo
the test. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
As faithful Catholics, it is our obligation to attend Sunday Mass. When we finally realize that it is our
supreme honor to be present – perhaps we will stop being like the Apostles in Matt. 26:36-46 and
instead, give our Lord the attentive worship he deserves.
For more information, please visit:
catholic.net/index.php?size=mas&id=763&option=dedestaca
baltimore-catechism.com/lesson24.htm

strosesv.com/Faith/pdf/Leaving%20Mass%20Early.pdf

 

[MartyrForJesus]

If it is rude to Jesus in the Tabernacle, then it is a violation of rubrics (and most likely a sin). Please, therefore, show me this in a church document. Show me anything authoritative stating that it is normative for the laity to remain in the pews until the end of the recessional hymn.

This seems to be the one critical peice that no one advocating this practice can produce to show that it’s anything more than an optional personal devotion…

A) Being rude isn’t always a sin if there isn’t sufficient knowlege

B) Not every venial sin is listed in a Church document. Find me a Church document that says that I can’t scream (without words) at people in public.

We need to stop going to rules for everything and just show common courtesy.

 

[promethius]

strosesv.com/Faith/pdf/Leaving%20Mass%20Early.pdf

I will kindly point out to you that what you just quoted to me is not an authoritative church document. It is a personal opinion written by a parishoner in California (not the vatican and not even a bishop) that has no more authority than my own. Furthermore, while the person writing this opinion peice states that no one should leave before the end of the hymn, the two sources they reference on the subject say nothing of the sort. The Baltimore Catechism lessons page states that people should merely stay until the priest leaves the altar, and the other states that people should stay until the end of mass (the dismissal).

Please provide an authoritative source for your statement (in the form of a church document).

 

[promethius]

A) Being rude isn’t always a sin if there isn’t sufficient knowlege

B) Not every venial sin is listed in a Church document. Find me a Church document that says that I can’t scream (without words) at people in public.

Screaming at people in public, assuming you’re not violating charity, is not a sin.

If you’re violating charity, aka, screaming in anger, screaming in their ears to cause hearing damage, etc, then the church teaches clearly that this is wrong because rage is disordered, as is attempting to physically harm others whilst not engaged in self defense.

We need to stop going to rules for everything and just show common courtesy.

Yes, and common courtesy here is that those who know they want to stay later after mass is over should sit in the center of the pews so that they do not inconvenience others with their optional personal devotions.

 

[CountrySinger]

So if I understand correctly, if I HAVE to leave early, I shouldn’t even go to Mass because it would be rude? I take the bus (have no car), and I work on Sundays and Saturday nights. It is a huge effort to get to Mass. If I have time, I stay the whole time, but sometimes those few minutes mean the difference between making my bus (there have been times I’ve had to sprint to the bus) and not getting disciplined, and waiting a half hour, being late, and risk losing the job (strict lateness policy). Believe me, the job isn’t something I look forward to, but it pays the bills.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

I will kindly point out to you that what you just quoted to me is not an authoritative church document. It is a personal opinion written by a parishoner in California (not the vatican and not even a bishop) that has no more authority than my own. Furthermore, while the person writing this opinion peice states that no one should leave before the end of the hymn, the two sources they reference on the subject say nothing of the sort. The Baltimore Catechism lessons page states that people should merely stay until the priest leaves the altar, and the other states that people should stay until the end of mass (the dismissal).

Please provide an authoritative source for your statement (in the form of a church document).

I said it is rude. You automatically assume that it is then a sin and demand to see a document from the Vatican. Do you know how illogical you are sounding? It is rude according to the social norm, and is there seriously something more important that you need to run out of Mass during the recessional hymn? They aren’t playing it for 10 minutes after the priest has left. I don’t know about you, but If I was in such a rush I wouldn’t receive Holy Communion simply because I wasn’t spiritually prepared for it.