Leaving out the handshake at the sign of peace?

[Exorcist]

That would really cheese me off. I am there to worship and be with the Creator of the Universe. Not shake hands with people. If I wanted to do that, I would go to the coffee and donuts after Mass in the other building. Yes - we are a community of believers. But we can be every bit of that without having to touch each other and carry on during Mass.

At the moment in the NO Mass where the sign of peace occurs, Jesus Christ is physically sitting there on the altar. HE IS THERE. And what are folks doing? Walking around, turning their back on Him, paying attention to EVERYTHING ELSE around them. He is simply ignored for the length of time it takes for everyone to visit, hug, kiss, shake, pat, wink, nod, and whatever else they do. It’s ridiculous.

What is so horribly wrong about keeping our focus on Christ for the entire Mass? We have 167 hours in the week when we can shake hands with people. Can’t we, for one blessed hour, just focus on Christ? Is that really so difficult?



~Liza

You would be upset because the cantor said something like “before we begin, please turn to someone you have not already greeted and welcome them this morning”? Really? The Mass hasn’t even started for goodness sakes.

Just how in the heck would that impact your ability “to worship and be with the Creator of the Universe.” That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Exorcist]

And, I’m saying you’re wrong in taking that absolute stance.

If the sign of peace degenerates into a loud, boisterous “meet-and-greet” with people leaving their pews, and continuing to talk and move during the Agnes Dei (all of which I have seen many times), it is a net gain to the Mass to omit it.

The priest needs to decide if the gain in collegiality is greater or less than the loss of solemnity. If it’s less, he should omit the sign.

In general, we should err in the direction of solemnity, b/c due worship and respect for God is more important than collegiality. You can always shake peoples’ hands after Mass.

God Bless

If won’t if the pastor is living up to his vocation as a pastor and providing needed catechesis. Such examples are no reason to get rid of the sign of peace. The solution is training and not to remove the sign of peace.

 

[Exorcist]

Is that not what Exposition is for?

Mass is a communal experience, and I don’t think Jesus expects us to focus entirely on him with little or no acknowledgment of others, and I don’t imagine the sign of peace, if it is carried out in a dignified way, offends him. There also may be people at Mass who no one shakes hands with outside of it, and it gives them a sense of belonging and acceptance.

However, I take your point about being cheesed off when things go over the top.

Part of focusing on Jesus Christ at Mass is acknowledging His people.

 

[Exorcist]

Really?

I make a general statement concerning the number of self proclaimed experts on this forum and you take it as an assault on the Sign of Peace itself. I never even mentioned the Sign of Peace one way or another.

Yes, really.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

You would be upset because the cantor said something like “before we begin, please turn to someone you have not already greeted and welcome them this morning”? Really? The Mass hasn’t even started for goodness sakes.

Just how in the heck would that impact your ability “to worship and be with the Creator of the Universe.” That makes absolutely no sense.

I don’t know about other people, but if I’m sitting with the congregation (usually I am organist so I don’t have that problem!) I’m typically saying prayers before Mass. I don’t shuffle in with two minutes (if that) to spare and I’m not sitting around being bored until Mass begins. Interrupting prayers to shake people’s hands? If the parish wants to encourage social interaction, I suggest a coffee hour after Mass.

Also, I’d ignore that cantor the best I could and just go on with my prayers.

 

[Exorcist]

According to the Vatican web site, under the general instructions of the Roman Missal, The Rite of Peace varies with the Local Bishops, however it states and I quote “it is appropriate that each person offer the Sign of Peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner.” I interpret this to mean a simple “Peace be with you” or “The Lord’s Peace be with you”. In my opinion, other than that simple statement in a reverent (sober) manner, all other actions such as kissing, hugging and handshaking in my opinion are not needed and inappropriate.

“Not needed?” As opposed to what? “Inappropriate?” A handshake? Really?

 

[R1ch4rd]

I attend two churches regularly. Mine was established in the mid 70’s and has a younger congregation. My parents is a much older traditional church in a predominantly Polish neighborhood. At my church, we tend to follow the newer more modern ways. We started with genuflecting before and after and now a deep bow shows the same reverence. We shake hands and until a recent change, held hands during the Our Father. At my parents church, the parishioners still genuflect but have never shaken hands or held hands. I feel at home at either church, God is present in both and I’m not sure if he cares whether we genuflect or bow. Whether we hold hands or not. Whether we shake hands or simply wish each other peace. He’s just happy to have us there.

After reading all the banter regarding such a simple thing, perhaps the OP’s priests are letting their parishioners decide for themselves how they want to handle it. As far as the preferred way, maybe an expert should find out what the Holy Father does at His Mass.

 

[norvet]

As opposed to: We got along without it since the beginning of the Church along with guitar Masses, drums and the rest of this Protestant type worship since Vatican II, and that’s a long time. Circa 33 until the 1960’s. You young people don’t realize what was once a United Roman Catholic Church in so much as: no matter what Church you attended, the Mass was exactly the same and said with the Priest facing the Tabernacle with the Eucharist inside. Not like now, some churches don’t even have a Tabernacle on the Altar. You also knew when you saw a Nun. She was in a habit. Now they wear all different kinds of attire and the Vatican is admonishing some of them for liberalism. Once you let the cat out of the bag you got trouble. The Church in the U.S.A. is way too liberal and going down the same road as our government — to Socialism. God help us.

 

[Exorcist]

I don’t know about other people, but if I’m sitting with the congregation (usually I am organist so I don’t have that problem!) I’m typically saying prayers before Mass. I don’t shuffle in with two minutes (if that) to spare and I’m not sitting around being bored until Mass begins. Interrupting prayers to shake people’s hands? If the parish wants to encourage social interaction, I suggest a coffee hour after Mass.

Also, I’d ignore that cantor the best I could and just go on with my prayers.

Please don’t try to make this a zero-sum game of either 30 extra seconds of “saying prayers” -OR- having the grace to welcome someone. Do both. Start your prayers 30 seconds earlier so you finish 30 seconds earlier.

This is not about being “social.” This is about welcoming someone to the Mass.

 

[Exorcist]

As opposed to: We got along without it since the beginning of the Church along with guitar Masses, drums and the rest of this Protestant type worship since Vatican II, and that’s a long time. Circa 33 until the 1960’s. You young people don’t realize what was once a United Roman Catholic Church in so much as: no matter what Church you attended, the Mass was exactly the same and said with the Priest facing the Tabernacle with the Eucharist inside. Not like now, some churches don’t even have a Tabernacle on the Altar. You also knew when you saw a Nun. She was in a habit. Now they wear all different kinds of attire and the Vatican is admonishing some of them for liberalism. Once you let the cat out of the bag you got trouble. The Church in the U.S.A. is way too liberal and going down the same road as our government — to Socialism. God help us.

No, no, no, no, no. Please don’t try to equate the sign to peace to the other matters you have dredged up. Please don’t try to derail the conversation. Please stay on the subject – ** Leaving out the handshake at the sign of peace.**

FWIW, to suggest the Mass has not changed RADICALLY from “circa 33 until the 1960’s” is just not true.

 

[Exorcist]

I will say this much. Eliminating the sign of peace is mostly certainly a loss no matter how you present it.

However That doesn’t mean that a pastor couldn’t train his flock into presenting the sign of peace in a way that does not include a handshake or any other physical contact. I can’t see the need for that in most cases but if it made some happier I would support it. What I dislike is seeing the sign of peace scrapped because a pastor is not willing to train his flock.

 

[R1ch4rd]

As opposed to: We got along without it since the beginning of the Church along with guitar Masses, drums and the rest of this Protestant type worship since Vatican II, and that’s a long time. Circa 33 until the 1960’s. You young people don’t realize what was once a United Roman Catholic Church in so much as: no matter what Church you attended, the Mass was exactly the same and said with the Priest facing the Tabernacle with the Eucharist inside. Not like now, some churches don’t even have a Tabernacle on the Altar. You also knew when you saw a Nun. She was in a habit. Now they wear all different kinds of attire and the Vatican is admonishing some of them for liberalism. Once you let the cat out of the bag you got trouble. The Church in the U.S.A. is way too liberal and going down the same road as our government — to Socialism. God help us.

Yup, the Masses were identical. I attended a small Catholic grade school and attended Mass every morning. Serving at Mass wasn’t optional. The servers were the only ones that responded to most of what the priest said…IN LATIN. I had no idea what we were saying nor did the congregation and many didn’t even follow. They said their own prayers. I wonder how many young couples would sit through a Mass they didn’t understand. Change is always hard,I still genuflect, but I’m glad I know what the priest is saying. Sorry for getting off subject.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Please don’t try to make this a zero-sum game of either 30 extra seconds of “saying prayers” -OR- having the grace to welcome someone. Do both. Start your prayers 30 seconds earlier so you finish 30 seconds earlier.

This is not about being “social.” This is about welcoming someone to the Mass.

What you’re suggesting is rude. You can welcome people before or after Mass in the hall, narthex, or outside.

 

[ProVobis]

I had no idea what we were saying nor did the congregation and many didn’t even follow. They said their own prayers. I wonder how many young couples would sit through a Mass they didn’t understand. Change is always hard,I still genuflect, but I’m glad I know what the priest is saying. Sorry for getting off subject.

Not to derail the thread too much, but weren’t OT sacrifices to God made by a high priest without anyone seeing or hearing him? Didn’t they benefit the ones on the outside just as much as the priest himself?

So should it be that less for us to acknowledge one another on the outside as on the inside?

 

[nickybr38]

What you’re suggesting is rude. You can welcome people before or after Mass in the hall, narthex, or outside.

How is suggesting that people come earlier to pray so they have time to welcome others rude?

I understand that we should have respect in the nave (is that how it’s spelled)… however, I REALLY don’t think Jesus minds if we squeeze the shoulder of a dear friend, say hello quietly to our neighbor or make eye contact and wave at our cousin who is across the room. In fact I’d think He’d be delighted at our gestures of love for one another… after all, He did instruct us TO love one another. Once Mass has started, however, this behavior wouldn’t be appropriate at all.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

How is suggesting that people come earlier to pray so they have time to welcome others rude?

I understand that we should have respect in the nave (is that how it’s spelled)… however, I REALLY don’t think Jesus minds if we squeeze the shoulder of a dear friend, say hello quietly to our neighbor or make eye contact and wave at our cousin who is across the room. In fact I’d think He’d be delighted at our gestures of love for one another… after all, He did instruct us TO love one another. Once Mass has started, however, this behavior wouldn’t be appropriate at all.

It’s rude to expect people to stop their prayers and welcome strangers into church and then call them rude when they don’t want to do so.

 

[tassitus]

Come on - it’s clearly a loss for some and of benefit to others. Just read the posts - we each have our own opinion, and I will not even give you mine (though I’d like to ). We should respect the opinions of others, even if we do not understand them.

Since it is optional, as has been shown in the GIRM, all you have to do is find a parish and/or Mass that includes that part of the sign of peace (if that is your style) or omits it (if that is your style).

I know that if I attend Mass at my parish, there will be handshakes, hugs, kisses, and laughter continuing into the Agnus Dei. I also know that if I go down to the local Dominican Priory for Mass, that will not occur.

I attend Mass accordingly. Was that so difficult?

 

[Irishgal49]

Hi:

I suppose I should ask the priest this but I never get the chance:

There are a couple of very holy priests in our local churches. Both are relatively new to our area. They are the type who follow the Missal to the letter.

Except:

they both fall silent at the time it is said, “let us show one another a sign of peace”.

At those times, most of us just fall silent and wait for the next part. Some people will quietly shake hands as usual with the people nearest them.

In the Missalettes, the sign of peace is mentioned. Why are these priests leaving it out? Are they right to do so? (I’m sure they have a good reason, these are not the type of men to just do their own thing with the Mass?)

What gives?

Thanks in advance.

I wish your church was nearby I don’t like it. I was abused as a kid and I don’t like someone TELLING me I have to shake hands. Maybe I want to, maybe I don’t. I get that same stuff with the Lord’s Prayer. One time someone tried to hold my hand and I shook my head no --but I did have a HORRIBLE cold and didn’t want to not be able to blow my nose as well as not wanting to be forced to touch people. Sorry, some of us don’t like it…glad to hear it’s optional.

 

[R1ch4rd]

Not to derail the thread too much, but weren’t OT sacrifices to God made by a high priest without anyone seeing or hearing him? Didn’t they benefit the ones on the outside just as much as the priest himself?

So should it be that less for us to acknowledge one another on the outside as on the inside?

Problem solved, we can gather in the parking lot and shake hands while the priest says Mass

 

[R1ch4rd]

Come on - it’s clearly a loss for some and of benefit to others. Just read the posts - we each have our own opinion, and I will not even give you mine (though I’d like to ). We should respect the opinions of others, even if we do not understand them.

Since it is optional, as has been shown in the GIRM, all you have to do is find a parish and/or Mass that includes that part of the sign of peace (if that is your style) or omits it (if that is your style).

I know that if I attend Mass at my parish, there will be handshakes, hugs, kisses, and laughter continuing into the Agnus Dei. I also know that if I go down to the local Dominican Priory for Mass, that will not occur.

I attend Mass accordingly. Was that so difficult?

:thumbsup:Spot on:thumbsup: