Leaving the RCC for Neo-Druidism

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cyberwolf001

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Like the title says. The more I’ve explored my faith, the more I find contradictions, arrogance and bigotry.

When I’ve pushed for answers in RL I get evasive answers that just have to go through all kinds of councils and the stories surrounding them. Regardless of weather or not it has any bearing on my question.

The Church has changed at least one of it’s infallible doctirnes “No Salvation Outside the church” of course there has been all sorts of somatic(spelling?) acrobatics to explain this away. But the bottom line is the Church once infallible taught that all outside the Catholic Church went to hell, no exceptions.

Now it’s been changed to some nebulous list of yes buts and all kinds of fluff that can’t seem to explain how to make it to Heaven. I’ve had a few discussions here that basically came down to your odds are slim to zero and even the sacraments are of little use it stopping it.

The only thing that seems to be agreed one is sex that doesn’t give birth to new babies is a very bad thing.

For this reason I have decided to join the ADF (Ian Corrigan’s organization) soon as I am able. As I have posted here a lot over the past year I decided to let this be my good bye message.

Take care everyone.
 
PS: I want one thing made clear. Ian didn’t convert me. I looked into it and decided on my own.
 
Cyberwolf,

Sorry to see you go, I was in a similar position about 10 years ago.

If you change your mind we’ll be right here ready to welcome you back.

God’s best.
 
Cyberwolf,

I cannot let you go without at least saying a little something.
I do not feel that the recent changes are contradicting etc… but are deep clarifications of the faith. The Church has always and always will teach that there is no salvation outside the Church it has never stated that outside the RCC just the Church this includes the Eastern Church and the Western Church.

The one thing about this that really scares me is that you will be joining a pagan religion that worships gods and goddesses, nature, science etc…and actually denies the existence of the one true God in three persons.

I wish that you would really rethink this and pray to Our Lord for assistance.

May God be with you.
 
**
The Church has changed at least one of it’s infallible doctirnes “No Salvation Outside the church”**

Fr. Feeney was reprimanded by Pope Pius XII himself for carrying this too far. It has ALWAYS been subject to qualifications.
 
Our Lord asked St.Peter (and his successors) , to tend the sheep …

to higher altitudes may be …where The Church get to see a better vision of the vastness of the Ocean of His Mercy …

There is the vision of Ezekiel :47 - …about the flow of river that starts out as a trickle… …and flows into the ocean , to bring life giving waters there …

Salvation has been in and through The Church… a Church that is vast and wide as a river …that can include much …

May those who have fallen away and so tempted , return …to strengthen the brethren … through intercession of StsPeter and Thomas , St Maria Faustina and St.Therese…

Immaculate Heart of Mary , pray for us now , and at the hour of our death !
 
You are leaving to go to a religion that has no rules at all?

I am a former member of the British Order of Bards Ovates and druids, In catholicism I find many of the the same things I enjoyed in Druidry, the respect, veneration, ritual a connectedness to time and place people and the ancestors.

For me the Fundamental thing that led me here was first that God IS, belief in the creed followed later, but if you get lost in rules/cataechism go back to the apostles creed, then give your self back to him in the Mass.

I find the free online “penny catechism” very helpful in answering the questions that today get a long response.

There is much freedom In catholicism today and historically for differences of approach and understanding ,

within catholicism you find environmentalism of st. Francis, The social responsibility care in the jesuits, or of Mother Theresa etc. etc.

When I was a druid (and later a buddhist )I had experiences of God, but it was like the voice of someone a long way off, now I am far closer to him.
 
Perhaps at some point ahead in your journey, cyber, you will realise that that statement, “No Salvation Outside The Catholic Church” remains true and correct, always!

The problem for you, as with everyone else - Catholic and non-Catholic - is that it isn’t what they think it means.

Hopefully, you might have a better perspective from ‘without,’ of what you could not discern from ‘within.’

As long as your premise remains that God created everything seen and unseen, living and inanimate, you will wander in His Grace, whilst you mull over ‘a few problems’ that bother you.

Christ’s peace be with you.

:cool:
 
I have a lot of respect for Ian and ADF, which is probably the best and most nonsense-free pagan group out there. But as a member for seven years, who held guild officer positions, attended Wellspring, and founded a local grove, I must warn you that it is really kind of a Catholic church in miniature. There’s a ton of internal bickering and backstabbing, and anything that happens, happens very, very slowly. Also, your experience with ADF will be as good as your local grove, which can be very good or terribly bad; or quite lonely if you have no local grove. Good luck with it all!
 
ibkc said:
I have a lot of respect for Ian and ADF, which is probably the best and most nonsense-free pagan group out there. But as a member for seven years, who held guild officer positions, attended Wellspring, and founded a local grove, I must warn you that it is really kind of a Catholic church in miniature. There’s a ton of internal bickering and backstabbing, and anything that happens, happens very, very slowly. Also, your experience with ADF will be as good as your local grove, which can be very good or terribly bad; or quite lonely if you have no local grove. Good luck with it all!
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If your local grove doesn’t work out, you might consider the Unitarians, which include pagans. There is a variety of belief in the Unitarian church and there are services and groups to include them all.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
Like the title says. The more I’ve explored my faith, the more I find contradictions, arrogance and bigotry.

When I’ve pushed for answers in RL I get evasive answers that just have to go through all kinds of councils and the stories surrounding them. Regardless of weather or not it has any bearing on my question.

The Church has changed at least one of it’s infallible doctirnes “No Salvation Outside the church” of course there has been all sorts of somatic(spelling?) acrobatics to explain this away. But the bottom line is the Church once infallible taught that all outside the Catholic Church went to hell, no exceptions.

Now it’s been changed to some nebulous list of yes buts and all kinds of fluff that can’t seem to explain how to make it to Heaven. I’ve had a few discussions here that basically came down to your odds are slim to zero and even the sacraments are of little use it stopping it.

The only thing that seems to be agreed one is sex that doesn’t give birth to new babies is a very bad thing.

For this reason I have decided to join the ADF (Ian Corrigan’s organization) soon as I am able. As I have posted here a lot over the past year I decided to let this be my good bye message.

Take care everyone.
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The church never changed it’s doctrine on no salvation outside of the church. who told you this?

It sounds to me as if you are looking for a reason to leave so that you can live in sinfulness that the church does not allow.

She will still be here for you when that has taken it’s course and all else has failed, as it will.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
Like the title says. The more I’ve explored my faith, the more I find contradictions, arrogance and bigotry.

When I’ve pushed for answers in RL I get evasive answers that just have to go through all kinds of councils and the stories surrounding them. Regardless of weather or not it has any bearing on my question.

The Church has changed at least one of it’s infallible doctirnes “No Salvation Outside the church” of course there has been all sorts of somatic(spelling?) acrobatics to explain this away. But the bottom line is the Church once infallible taught that all outside the Catholic Church went to hell, no exceptions.

Now it’s been changed to some nebulous list of yes buts and all kinds of fluff that can’t seem to explain how to make it to Heaven. I’ve had a few discussions here that basically came down to your odds are slim to zero and even the sacraments are of little use it stopping it.

The only thing that seems to be agreed one is sex that doesn’t give birth to new babies is a very bad thing.

For this reason I have decided to join the ADF (Ian Corrigan’s organization) soon as I am able. As I have posted here a lot over the past year I decided to let this be my good bye message.

Take care everyone.
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Have fun, CW. We’ll be here when you get back.

God love you,
Paul
 
cyberwolf001 said:
Like the title says. The more I’ve explored my faith, the more I find contradictions, arrogance and bigotry.

When I’ve pushed for answers in RL I get evasive answers that just have to go through all kinds of councils and the stories surrounding them. Regardless of weather or not it has any bearing on my question.

The Church has changed at least one of it’s infallible doctirnes “No Salvation Outside the church” of course there has been all sorts of somatic(spelling?) acrobatics to explain this away. But the bottom line is the Church once infallible taught that all outside the Catholic Church went to hell, no exceptions.

Now it’s been changed to some nebulous list of yes buts and all kinds of fluff that can’t seem to explain how to make it to Heaven. I’ve had a few discussions here that basically came down to your odds are slim to zero and even the sacraments are of little use it stopping it.

The only thing that seems to be agreed one is sex that doesn’t give birth to new babies is a very bad thing.

For this reason I have decided to join the ADF (Ian Corrigan’s organization) soon as I am able. As I have posted here a lot over the past year I decided to let this be my good bye message.

Take care everyone.
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You really should take another look at the RCC. I cannot seem to think that people who say that they explore the RCC more, the further they are away from it. It should be the total opposite if you do correct research and find that it is the truth.
The ADF isn’t good dude, and I will pray for you. May God have mercy on you.
 
Hello cyber,
cyberwolf001 said:
Like the title says. The more I’ve explored my faith, the more I find contradictions, arrogance and bigotry.

When I’ve pushed for answers in RL I get evasive answers that just have to go through all kinds of councils and the stories surrounding them. Regardless of weather or not it has any bearing on my question.
Click to expand...
Ok, without getting too deep into why you have lost confidence in your Faith, I just need to make a few comments.

First of all the church has two aspects: it is a community of people, followers of Christ, and in a community setting it is also an institution. Most of us here have come to believe in the Jesus of Nazareth for any number of reasons, including such varied ways as the witnessing of miracles and exercises in logic.

But here we are, believers in the divinity of Christ.

I personally believe because of the Gospel witness, and the knowledge that most of the Apostles, the actual first generation of people who knew Him intimately, willingly suffered brutality and death to spread His message, His Truth to us. That was early on a powerful witness to me.

The institution of the church rises out of this crowd of witnesses, this community of believers. That’s where the councils and decrees and everything become important for us. It can indeed seem pretty legalistic, and depending upon one’s resources it can seem contradictory at times.

But we start out as believers first, and we build upon that. I am sorry that we have become such a poor witness for you.

But there is no sense in putting the cart before the horse. If you don’t start out believing in Christ, in some fashion, even in the most basic bare-bones way…you simply don’t need a church, it’s Sacraments, Councils and it’s Creed. It ultimately will not sustain you.

There is no “perfect” anything but God Himself. As believing human creatures we are in no way perfect, and the church reflects our human frailty.
cyberwolf001 said:
PS: I want one thing made clear. Ian didn’t convert me. I looked into it and decided on my own.
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We don’t shop for Truth. Christianity is a revealed religion, and we take it straight, no chaser.

The problem I see with these modern choices you are able to select from is that they don’t come from the Divine, they are made up out of someone’s head.

There isn’t much good information about what real druids believed any more. Therefore “neo” druidism, too bad really. I am curious to know, is the emphasis of this group about the gods they worship, or the fact that one can be a druid, know special things and participate in interesting ceremonies?

We cannot stand in the tradition of real druids because they have been gone a long time, and if you could have been there with them 1600 years ago, would you really have liked what you learned about them, would you really want that for yourself?

Ask yourself…do you need those gods for some reason? Is it that you have this compelling need to submit yourself to them, or is there an attraction to possibly control the gods?

And something we all need to ask ourselves, not just for you: would you be willing to die for that faith of yours?

Good luck on your spiritual journey.

Michael
 
Hesychios said:
And something we all need to ask ourselves, not just for you: would you be willing to die for that faith of yours?
**
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This is a profound question and it is one I asked myself a couple of years ago. I could not honestly say that I would be willing to die for the old pagan gods. I began reading about the old martyrs and started looking for what could have inspired such devotion.

Of course, part of the attraction of neo-paganism for many people is that it does not require this kind of commitment. Worship in ADF is transactional in nature and you can make your interactions with the gods as complex or as simple as you like. Patron deities and hearth cultures can shift and change. As long as you profess a belief in hard polytheism and limit your active, public worship to the old gods of the ancient speakers of Indo-European languages, and don’t publicly branch out into, say, Shinto or Native American cultures, you’re good to go.
 
Cathryn said:
Why look for an imitation of the Catholic Church?
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For some, it is because THIS ONE lights up life too much, that the receding shadows afford very little hiding places!

For some, it is preferable to search for hope that The Church is wrong, than to persevere to the end in the hope of The Church.

For others, it is just a ‘protest’

:cool:
 
The Church has never, and will never, change it’s infallible dogma of “Outside the Catholic Church is no salvation.” I know it is frustrating because the vast majority of lay Catholics and nearly all of the hierarchy try to make this dogma into a “meaningless formula”, going great lengths and all the semantic acrobatics to try and prove that the dogma of “Outside the Catholic Church is no salvation” to REALLY mean “Outside the Catholic Church is salvation”; it is really annoying when they say, “This just means all salvation comes through the Catholic Church, not that you have to be inside the Church to be saved” (HELLO, it says “outside of”, not “without the existence of”!), or worse yet, they try to actually change the definition of “Church” to mean something other than the one, perpetually visible Apostolic Catholic Church of Rome, with the Pope as its visible head! But no matter–they cannot and will not be able to EVER changed this dogma which has been defined infallibly by three different popes in the clearest and most literal of terms. A pope will never be able to speak “ex cathedra” and reverse this dogma; and so we will just have to pray and wait for the time when, once again, a Pope will have to speak from the chair and reiterate what past popes have already said: that there is no salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church, that all who are outside of her will be damned, that this is the only ark of salvation and whoever is outside of it will perish in the flood. So yes, you do in fact have to be a “card-carrying Catholic” to get into heaven!
 
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