Lectors or readers and liturgical colors

[speters33w]

I was just wondering if a lot of lectors or readers look at liturgical colors when they are going to read.

I had a real hard time finding a rose dress shirt, it’s an odd color for men’s clothing. Then I found my parish doesn’t even have rose vestments, the priest who normally celebrated in the past at Gaudete and Laetare Sundays brought vestments in from a sister parish, so today a visiting priest wore violet, which is also approved for today, and I wore rose.

It worked out just fine, though.

But then I was thinking about it and I realized a lot of times the readers (including myself in the past) don’t dress in the liturgical colors.

It’s not something I really care about for anyone else, it’s just something I started doing recently because that’s how I interpreted

In the procession to the altar, when no deacon is present, the lector, wearing the appropriate vesture, may carry the Book of the Gospels elevated slightly. In that case, he walks in front of the priest, otherwise with the other ministers.

but I never worried about it before. I wasn’t directed to start wearing the liturgical colors, I just do it.

But I’m just wondering if it’s common for other readers to look at colors, or not.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

“The appropriate vesture” is a way of being able to say what is prescribed by local ecclesiastical authority, since there is no universal norm. A seminarian who has received the stable ministry of lector, for example, might very well wear cassock and surplice. A non seminarian layman who has received the stable ministry of lector might or might not wear an alb…as might any lay person who is fulfilling the role, for example. A male or female Religious very well could wear their religious habit while one’s regular street attire might simply be the prescribed vesture.

I have certainly seen, over the years, those who try at least to reflect the liturgical colour in what they wear…but this is more prevalent in some cultures than in others. I have known some bishops, for example, who invite the faithful of their diocese to wear something red on Pentecost.

As a priest in churches where I was pastor or where I held a chaplaincy, I have never asked those fulfilling these liturgical roles to wear a certain colour of ensemble…I have always focused more on advocating a decorous attire and then leaving it to the individual to choose wisely from their wardrobe.

 

[ccmcmg]

I was just wondering if a lot of lectors or readers look at liturgical colors when they are going to read.

I had a real hard time finding a rose dress shirt, it’s an odd color for men’s clothing. Then I found my parish doesn’t even have rose vestments, the priest who normally celebrated in the past at Gaudete and Laetare Sundays brought vestments in from a sister parish, so today a visiting priest wore violet, which is also approved for today, and I wore rose.

It worked out just fine, though.

But then I was thinking about it and I realized a lot of times the readers (including myself in the past) don’t dress in the liturgical colors.

It’s not something I really care about for anyone else, it’s just something I started doing recently because that’s how I interpreted

but I never worried about it before. I wasn’t directed to start wearing the liturgical colors, I just do it.

But I’m just wondering if it’s common for other readers to look at colors, or not.

I like to wear red on Pentecost (and I’m often a lector), or purple. I don’t have anything ‘rose’ colored though, and I was honored to be a lector on this date last year.

 

[FrDavid96]

I was just wondering if a lot of lectors or readers look at liturgical colors when they are going to read.

I had a real hard time finding a rose dress shirt, it’s an odd color for men’s clothing. Then I found my parish doesn’t even have rose vestments, the priest who normally celebrated in the past at Gaudete and Laetare Sundays brought vestments in from a sister parish, so today a visiting priest wore violet, which is also approved for today, and I wore rose.

Show the priest this website before December:
http://www.catholicliturgicals.com/pm/uploads/prod_thumb_images/_TH_305_WS_GV_D09_9RO_2V_MCI.jpg
catholicliturgicals.com/index.php?URL=product.htm&pro_id=305

It worked out just fine, though.

But then I was thinking about it and I realized a lot of times the readers (including myself in the past) don’t dress in the liturgical colors.

It’s not something I really care about for anyone else, it’s just something I started doing recently because that’s how I interpreted

but I never worried about it before. I wasn’t directed to start wearing the liturgical colors, I just do it.

But I’m just wondering if it’s common for other readers to look at colors, or not.

As Don Ruggero just mentioned, priests should not be requiring such a thing.

Of course, if the people choose on their own to do that, I’m all for it.

At my current parish (and also my previous one) it was very common for the parishioners to wear the liturgical color, especially on the more noteworthy days. That started long before I arrived at either place.

In my parish, the parishioners really do get excited about it. The men wear rose colored ties (no, they don’t wear pink ties, they wear rose colored ones ) The ladies wear hats, blouses, dresses, or whatever else they can find to match the color of the day, even if it’s just something small and simple such as a hair ribbon.

On Ash Wednesday, most people wore purple. On Pentecost they wear red. Well, you get the idea. During Lent/Advent, we see a lot of purple. On the days that are a bit more unique (the 2 rose days or the rare Sunday that red is the color) it’s more prevalent. Likewise, when Ordinary Time starts, we see a lot of green, but then as it goes on, the interest wanes.

The parishioners enjoy it and I do encourage it (not require, but encourage). I think it’s great that they are paying attention to the liturgical calendar. That’s much more important than the value of “let’s play dressup” and I mean that in a very positive way. It’s not just about the color itself; it’s about the fact that they are actually making the liturgical calendar a part of their overall preparations for Sunday Mass.

The readers at my parish take it rather seriously.

Not that anyone asked, but this is what I wore earlier today:

http://www.catholicliturgicals.com/pm/uploads/prod_thumb_images/_TH_1087_RVS_D12_9RO_2V_F09_M0P.jpg

 

[Usige]

It is generally a local custom for lay readers to wear liturgical colors from what I can tell. I have never seen anywhere where the laity were required to wear specific attire, beyond general guidelines (i.e. no jeans or shorts, etc). The only time readers wear liturgical colors in my area tends to be red on Palm Sunday and Pentecost.

As Don Ruggero points out there is often a difference between the stable ministry of lector and a reader with regard to liturgical dress. Part of this stems from the fact that the stable ministry is one that anticipates a continued functioning in that role to one degree or another. As such most who have been received into that ministry will own their own alb or cassock and surplice. While it is permissible for lay readers to wear an alb I know of no where that requires it.

As I understand it, vesture implies specific liturgical garb according to one’s state. Perhaps our learned priests will correct me, but vestments are actually supposed to be blessed for their specific purpose in worship. Since a layman’s tie, jacket, dress, etc. are not specifically meant for use in worship, they are not strictly speaking vesture that need meet liturgical dictates. You are obviously free to try to follow liturgical colors, but there is nothing that equates street dress with liturgical requirements for vestments.

 

[1ke]

I was just wondering if a lot of lectors or readers look at liturgical colors when they are going to read.

IMO, no. I don’t try to wear anything that is a liturgical color, although sometimes it ends up that way and there isn’t anything wrong with it one way or another.

Our clothes are not vestments. I would think an actual lector would vest, since it’s an instituted ministry. But, we readers are just readers.

But then I was thinking about it and I realized a lot of times the readers (including myself in the past) don’t dress in the liturgical colors.

Nor is there any reason to.

 

[Phemie]

I’ve sometimes matched the liturgical colour of the day but it’s always been accidental. My Mass wardrobe mainly consists of black pants or black skirt worn with either a red or black jacket and shirts in shades of pink or black depending on the jacket. The only green and purple clothes I own are souvenir t-shirts only available in those colours and obviously not appropriate for Mass.

I figure if the Rector of the Cathedral where I attended Mass yesterday didn’t wear rose there is no reason I, as a reader, should concern myself with anything beyond the cleanliness and modesty of the clothes I wear.

 

[Dorothy]

I was just wondering if a lot of lectors or readers look at liturgical colors when they are going to read.

I had a real hard time finding a rose dress shirt, it’s an odd color for men’s clothing. Then I found my parish doesn’t even have rose vestments, the priest who normally celebrated in the past at Gaudete and Laetare Sundays brought vestments in from a sister parish, so today a visiting priest wore violet, which is also approved for today, and I wore rose.

It worked out just fine, though.

But then I was thinking about it and I realized a lot of times the readers (including myself in the past) don’t dress in the liturgical colors.

It’s not something I really care about for anyone else, it’s just something I started doing recently because that’s how I interpreted

but I never worried about it before. I wasn’t directed to start wearing the liturgical colors, I just do it.

But I’m just wondering if it’s common for other readers to look at colors, or not.

I have been a reader for many years, and have never thought of doing that. Come to think of that my wardrobe and finances wouldn’t let me! I just use basic colors and maybe a small accent such as a scarf of pin.

 

[speters33w]

“The appropriate vesture” is a way of being able to say what is prescribed by local ecclesiastical authority, since there is no universal norm.

I had a feeling “appropriate vesture” couldn’t really mean colors, or at least isn’t enforced.

As Don Ruggero just mentioned, priests should not be requiring such a thing.

Of course, if the people choose on their own to do that, I’m all for it.

At my current parish (and also my previous one) it was very common for the parishioners to wear the liturgical color, especially on the more noteworthy days. That started long before I arrived at either place.

In my parish, the parishioners really do get excited about it…

The parishioners enjoy it and I do encourage it (not require, but encourage).

I’ve sometimes matched the liturgical colour of the day but it’s always been accidental…

Yes, no-one was requiring it. My wife also proclaims, and we noticed when we “got it right, accidentally” our pastor would always mention: “That’s a good color for today.” in the Sacristy before Mass.

It is generally a local custom for lay readers to wear liturgical colors from what I can tell. I have never seen anywhere where the laity were required to wear specific attire, beyond general guidelines (i.e. no jeans or shorts, etc). The only time readers wear liturgical colors in my area tends to be red on Palm Sunday and Pentecost.

That is exactly what I have seen in the past, which is part of why I asked the question.
Also because I found it awkward I was in rose but the priest was not.
After all that searching for a rose men’s shirt, I’d have been better off in purple.

I have been a reader for many years, and have never thought of doing that. Come to think of that my wardrobe and finances wouldn’t let me! I just use basic colors and maybe a small accent such as a scarf of pin.

Yes, that could be a serious consideration, my Church is not in an affluent area. In reality, I got all the colors shirts and ties save rose at Goodwill or Salvation Army, average cost $5 for a shirt, and $2 for a tie. I’m an easy size to match there, so I can be picky about the quality.
On the other hand, it cost some $$$ to have my wife in the colors in nice appropriate dresses.

There’s only really four colors, though if you don’t count rose or black (All Souls, funerals).
Violet (purple), Red, White, and Green, so it was fairly easy to collect them.

 

[speters33w]

PS-
I’ll add, rose was the most difficult for me to find. It’s not a common men’s color.
Pink or peach would have been much easier to find.

White was difficult to find for my wife, that is without it looking like a wedding dress or nurse’s uniform from back-in-the-day before scrubs.
We settled on a gold-yellow with white accessories.

 

[FrDavid96]

It is generally a local custom for lay readers to wear liturgical colors from what I can tell. I have never seen anywhere where the laity were required to wear specific attire, beyond general guidelines (i.e. no jeans or shorts, etc). The only time readers wear liturgical colors in my area tends to be red on Palm Sunday and Pentecost.

As Don Ruggero points out there is often a difference between the stable ministry of lector and a reader with regard to liturgical dress. Part of this stems from the fact that the stable ministry is one that anticipates a continued functioning in that role to one degree or another. As such most who have been received into that ministry will own their own alb or cassock and surplice. While it is permissible for lay readers to wear an alb I know of no where that requires it.

As I understand it, vesture implies specific liturgical garb according to one’s state. Perhaps our learned priests will correct me, but vestments are actually supposed to be blessed for their specific purpose in worship. Since a layman’s tie, jacket, dress, etc. are not specifically meant for use in worship, they are not strictly speaking vesture that need meet liturgical dictates. You are obviously free to try to follow liturgical colors, but there is nothing that equates street dress with liturgical requirements for vestments.

I agree with everything.

Just for clarity, the thread is not about liturgical vesture. That’s not what we’re discussing.

We’re talking about laypeople who choose to wear secular clothing that matches the liturgical color of the day (for example, a layman who wears a red tie on Pentecost, or a laywoman who wears a green blouse on a Sunday of Ordinary Time). We’re not discussing laypeople wearing vestments or clerical garb.

 

[Brendan]

I wear a smartwatch ( Microsoft Band).

One of it’s characteristics is that the display can be ‘personalized’ with different color and pattern themes.

A year ago, my then 4 year old had noticed that my watch was consistantly green. It happened to be so because it was Fall, College Football Season, and I had set it to green in support of the MSU Spartans.

Well Football season moved into Dec, and, on the 1st Day of Advent, my son noted that my watch no longer matched the priest. And he was rather adamant that I change it.

So I did, and since then, my watch MUST match the liturgical color

Does that count?

 

[Usige]

I agree with everything.

Just for clarity, the thread is not about liturgical vesture. That’s not what we’re discussing.

We’re talking about laypeople who choose to wear secular clothing that matches the liturgical color of the day (for example, a layman who wears a red tie on Pentecost, or a laywoman who wears a green blouse on a Sunday of Ordinary Time). We’re not discussing laypeople wearing vestments or clerical garb.

Oh, I quite agree, Father. I was trying to point out that where the original poster quoted “the lector, wearing the appropriate vesture” does not necessarily imply that laymen are required to follow liturgical norms for vestments. This appears to be related to 339 of the GIRM where it says that “lectors, and other lay ministers may wear the alb or other suitable vesture or other appropriate and dignified clothing.” Since street clothes aren’t vestmen’s it would appear that the only dictate would be that the clothing simply be ‘appropriate and dignified’.

If someone’s street clothes match the liturgical norms it should be either personal choice or by local tradition. That being said, I hope that no one is out having jackets made with orphrey style lapels.

 

[TimothyH]

It’s not something I really care about for anyone else,

But I’m just wondering if it’s common for other readers to look at colors, or not.

 

[speters33w]

This just means I decided this for myself, and whatever other readers or Eucharistic ministers wear, as long as it’s appropriate dress doesn’t bother me.

But my world is small, and I wondered if everywhere else lay ministers concerned themselves with the colors, or not.

From this thread, it looks like some do, and some don’t, and that’s just fine.

 

[speters33w]

A little off-topic…

Show the priest this website before December:
http://www.catholicliturgicals.com/pm/uploads/prod_thumb_images/_TH_305_WS_GV_D09_9RO_2V_MCI.jpg
catholicliturgicals.com/index.php?URL=product.htm&pro_id=305

So, Fr. Dave, this got me thinking…

What if I were to purchase and send vestments anonymously to my church every once in a while just before they are needed? Would that be pretentious?
I’ll tell you, the Purple and Green vestments are really getting shabby and threadbare. Red and White are OK.

I can’t afford to repair the parking lot, upgrade the sound system (which really needs it, the mikes cut out all the time), or upgrade the HVAC, even though I’ve bumped up what I put in the “grounds and maintenance” envelopes.
But this is something I could do for my church for the Eucharistic celebration.

But would this be appropriate? I’d be worried it would upset people or some people would take it wrong…

I’ve already been considering replacing the Sunday Lectionary. The binding is falling apart and there are ripped pages, and those pulpit sized Lectionaries aren’t cheap.

But I’ve been reticent to do that for the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[speters33w]

A little off-topic…
What if I were to purchase and send vestments anonymously to my church every once in a while just before they are needed? Would that be pretentious?
I’ll tell you, the Purple and Green vestments are really getting shabby and threadbare. Red and White are OK…

OK, Fr, I did a little more research, and I’d definitely have to talk to my Priest about vestments if I were to do this…

It’s the chasubles that are worn out, they are modified Gothic style, post Vat II, and I would guess they were originally purchased in the '70s from the style of the embroidered symbols. My guess is 1974 or shortly after that missal revision.

But there’s a lot that goes into selecting vestments I don’t know about.

But still, would it be appropriate for me to replace the Lectionary? That one I can do by ISBN.

 

[Phemie]

OK, Fr, I did a little more research, and I’d definitely have to talk to my Priest about vestments if I were to do this…

It’s the chasubles that are worn out, they are modified Gothic style, post Vat II, and I would guess they were originally purchased in the '70s from the style of the embroidered symbols. My guess is 1974 or shortly after that missal revision.

But there’s a lot that goes into selecting vestments I don’t know about.

But still, would it be appropriate for me to replace the Lectionary? That one I can do by ISBN.

We recently (18 months or so) purchased a set of 4 chasubles to fit our pastor. Sadly, he didn’t get much use out of them as he died at the end of January. The priest who was named administrator almost trips on them. Sometimes we think of chasubles as “one size fits all” but such is not the case, although you could purchase an “average” size that will do unless the priest is particularly tall or short or heavy.

You could talk to the priest who would guide you in your choice.

As for the Lectionary, I wouldn’t hesitate for a minute. You just make sure to buy the one appropriate to your country. No parish should have to do with ritual books that are falling apart, be that altar Missal, Lectionary, Rite of Christian Funeral, Rite of Baptism of Infants, or Marriage Rite.

 

[speters33w]

The priest who was named administrator almost trips on them.

Sorry to hear about your Priest.

Have you thought about having them altered? I know that’s a pretty quick process for most things, my wife is a seamstress.
Well, she’s not doing that so much anymore, but…
I’ll bet you could have all four shortened in less than a day with an appointment, it’s a simple hem.

In fact, that gives me another idea…
My wife used to make renaissance replica dresses (“People Powered - On a Treadle” was her ad.)
Like, she sold them for hundreds of dollars. The one that really made my eyes bug sold for $499, if I remember right.
(Actually, my eyes first bugged when the fabric was over $150 and I paid for it up front… )
She’s not just someone handy with a needle.
Maybe she can make new chasubles, to our Priest’s specifications (heavy fabric, light fabric, ornate, simple, etc), though she’d have to make them “universal fit” as we have visiting priests greater than half the time.
One of the priests of our parish recently had a stroke and can not celebrate.

As for the Lectionary, I wouldn’t hesitate for a minute.

Thanks! I will do that!

 

[FrDavid96]

A little off-topic…

So, Fr. Dave, this got me thinking…

What if I were to purchase and send vestments anonymously to my church every once in a while just before they are needed? Would that be pretentious?
I’ll tell you, the Purple and Green vestments are really getting shabby and threadbare. Red and White are OK.

I can’t afford to repair the parking lot, upgrade the sound system (which really needs it, the mikes cut out all the time), or upgrade the HVAC, even though I’ve bumped up what I put in the “grounds and maintenance” envelopes.
But this is something I could do for my church for the Eucharistic celebration.

But would this be appropriate? I’d be worried it would upset people or some people would take it wrong…

I’ve already been considering replacing the Sunday Lectionary. The binding is falling apart and there are ripped pages, and those pulpit sized Lectionaries aren’t cheap.

But I’ve been reticent to do that for the reasons I mentioned above.

I say “talk to the pastor.” Not the secretary, not someone on the parish council, not the choirmaster (get the idea? ).

Talk to the pastor and in a friendly, non-confrontational way (meaning a way that does not imply that he is being negligent) simply tell him that you noticed certain things need to be replaced (and since he’s so busy and money is so tight, etc.) offer to replace things. Most pastors will appreciate the offer.

Now, if he tends to be a very “everything has to be a special way” (meaning his way) kind of pastor tread with caution. That’s me. I want every liturgical item to be “just so.” I tried 3 printings of the new Roman Missal before I settled on the one I like (yes, the NEW Roman Missal).

From my perspective: I appreciate the offer to buy things for the parish when they’re made, but I make the final decision on what that will be. You will certainly pick something that you like, you might pick something that he likes, but ultimately he will the one to wear it or use it, so it has to be what makes him comfortable. There might be something (some little thing you might not even notice) that would cause him to think “I don’t like it. I appreciate it, but I don’t like it.”

As a priest, I get different kinds of gifts all the time, some personal, some given to the parish. I can say that most of the time, unless it is something I chose myself, there’s always something about it that just doesn’t sit well with me. It can be awkward, sometimes very.

Just for example: you might get a vestment with silver trim on it. Maybe he has a gold plated chalice. Maybe he’s the sort of person who doesn’t think gold color and silver color should be mixed (that used to be considered an important fashion rule).

Show him what’s available. Do not (again do NOT) be afraid to tell him the limit you are willing to pay–much better that you tell him than put him in the position that he has to ask, and he will need to know sooner or later because he can’t pick something unless he knows what is available.

Strong caution here: do not buy something and have it shipped to the parish anonymously. I can tell you that’s one of the worst things to do. There are plenty of unscrupulous businesses out there who make a living by shipping un-ordered merchandise to churches, then later sending a bill. Most of the time it’s toner cartridge, lightbulbs, paper supplies, or other items that every office needs. They do this in hopes that someone will just pay the bill and not notice. They then use the delivery tracking number to prove that the merchandise was delivered and find some way to claim that it was ordered. I tell my staff “never sign for anything unless you are certain that we ordered it.” So having it shipped directly to the parish is not a good idea.

Maybe if you know the priest well enough and you can be absolutely certain that he likes it you can have it shipped to you, then re-box it and leave it somewhere with a note “from a friend.” I say maybe.

If you’re thinking of a vestment from that online seller (the $69 ones are very nice) print some pictures of the purple and green ones but only the ones you can afford. Show him the pics and say (in these or similar words) “Father, I’d like to buy these and donate them to the parish, what do you think about that?”

Good luck.

PS–I posted before I read your earlier posts. Anyway, most of it still applies.

If you still prefer to do a lectionary in stead of a vestment, just go through my post and where you see “vestment” cross that out and write-in “lectionary”