Led Zeppelin Satanic?

[kinja]

I didn’t know it was that easy. Learn something new every day.

I did look up Oates and it seems his reverse speech ideas have been rejected by the scientific community as pseudoscience source]. That doesn’t bode well for his credibility. I can see rock musicians putting backwards stuff in a song just because they think it’s “cool”, not because of sinister motives. Or perhaps they do have sinister motives and buy into the reverse speech “pseudoscience”. That still doesn’t mean it actually works.

First off wikipedia isn’t a very reliable source when it comes to biographical data. It even makes margaret sanger (who started planned parenthood and abortion clinics) look like mother theresa. Second the scientific community consists of all scientists in the field. I very much doubt that all scientists have made any pronouncement on Oates’ theories. Thirdly I never said it actually works. I said I am not willing to gamble on it at my own peril.

Perhaps I’m naïve, but I guess I underestimate a band’s ability to subliminally turn me into a minion of Satan. I’m firm enough in my faith that I know it won’t be shaken by any song or movie.

I don’t think that the intent of subliminals is to have any immediate effect on the listener. It is meant to act as a slow poison over time. Much like the constant barrage of new age propaganda in alot of our movies and tv series of late.

Maybe I’m just an optimist who has a habit of looking for the good in everything. I do listen to a lot of rock music (actually, mostly heavy metal), but I don’t feel that most of it glorifies sin. It’s simply impossible to make anything close to a universal statement when it comes to the lyrical content of a whole genre of music. Some of the bands I listen to are Christian and write on Christian themes. Others write songs in the fantasy vein, often drawing on the literary legacy of (devout Catholic) J.R.R. Tolkien. Others write Science Fiction lyrics. Others write about the human condition the way any poet would do. Not all of it is 100% in accord with Catholic teaching, but that doesn’t mean nothing can be gained from it.

I’m sure that there are positive themes on some of the rock music but what makes rat poison effective is not the 98% food content in it but the 2% poison that kills the rat. A half truth is still a lie and I don’t think it’s wise to gamble for the love a music.

As to the history of rock and roll, I don’t think it matters much. I did look at Robert Johnson. I assume you are referring to the myth that he sold his soul to the devil in exchange for the ability to play the guitar. Is that urban legend supposed to be a serious reason why a whole genre of music is “tainted”? I don’t buy it. Even if rock did originate that way, that doesn’t mean anything. Something that started off bad can later be used for good.

Robert Johnson sang several songs about being tormented by the devil and hell hounds on his trail. His friends even said on interview that he sold his soul to play like that. It is not an urban legend unless you want to believe it is. And how exactly has rock music been used for good?

For me, the discussion on the evils of rock music always comes down to this: Is it possible that a particular musical instrument or instruments, or even the way that they are played, can be inherently evil? If the answer is “No”, then it seems to me quite impossible to say that rock music is always (or even usually) problematic. If the answer is “Yes”, well then my next question is “How?” I am very skeptical that a particular series of sounds can be inherently evil. The best that I can tell, sound is morally neutral.

There are certain types of sound that can affect the human brain in amazing ways. The shango drum is one such instrument used by african spiritists. Certain low freuency sounds as well can leave the mind suceptible to suggestion. It is no wonder that ever religion ever invented uses some form of music during its ritual. Humans are musical creatures by nature. We respond to it whether we believe so or not.

Anyway, I’m enjoying our discussion. I like to think about these things.

I also enjoy our discussions Joe.

 

[WackBob]

my, how this thread has grown. lolz I have a simple solution; just avoid stairway to heaven and it’s backmasking cra.p alltogether.

 

[BrooklynBoy200]

BEATLES for sheer brilliance and versatility is tops. Plus the way Pink Floyd broke up and is still separated makes the Beatles’ breakup look like a small disagreement. IMHO, Floyd had Dark Side and Wish You Were Here and Echoes. Rest downhill. The Wall, apart from Gilmour’s 3 contributions, is simply Gilbert and Sullivan.

lol yeah it would probably be something like this:

1. Beatles
2. The Who
3. Led Zeppelin
4. Rolling Stones

Although i will say Pink Floyd is probably the most poetic and orginial band in terms of their lyrics.

But yeah back to the topic, Page was pretty heavily into the occult, but who cares he was a great guitar player and that’s the only side of him you see in relation to Zeppelin so whatever he did on his own time doesn’t really matter.

That whole thing with Plant blaming Page for his son’s death is new to me though, anyone know where i could find more on that?

 

[Joe_5859]

Hey, I forgot about this thread. Sorry, Kinja!

 

[BrooklynBoy200]

Oh, and by the way, i’ve always thought most of the lyrics (when listened to correctly) of Stairway are pretty in line with Christianity…the whole thing with someone trying to buy a stairway to heaven and how it’s not going to work. Plus the line “There’s still time to change the road you’re on” has always struck me as pretty powerful.

And really, who cares what happens when you put it on backwards…?
It reminds me of an old George Carlin skit:

“The new Beatles album, when played backwards, says: you idiot you’re playing the record backwards! Turn it around!”

 

[kinja]

Oh, and by the way, i’ve always thought most of the lyrics (when listened to correctly) of Stairway are pretty in line with Christianity…the whole thing with someone trying to buy a stairway to heaven and how it’s not going to work. Plus the line “There’s still time to change the road you’re on” has always struck me as pretty powerful.

When listened to correctly you say? I think you will have to demonstrate how exactly this is accomplished. If you want to interpret the lyrics to be in line with christianity then that is your deluded choice.

And really, who cares what happens when you put it on backwards…?

Alot of people. Any rational person would be concerned that the music they listen to has strange or sinister hidden meanings.

It reminds me of an old George Carlin skit:

You actually mention george carlin . . . funny.
Interesting that this Led Zepplin thread brought up the topic of satanism. The church os satan actually adher to atheist beliefs and that we the creation are gods. George Carlin himself was an atheist also. Here’s one of his many quotes: “I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood.”

“The new Beatles album, when played backwards, says: you idiot you’re playing the record backwards! Turn it around!”

Another irony. The beatles are actually the ones who helped make new age crowleyan beliefs a part of pop culture in the west. Thanks largely to their efforts we have generations of rebellious, anti-christian air heads to deal with

 

[kinja]

When listened to correctly you say? I think you will have to demonstrate how exactly this is accomplished. If you want to interpret the lyrics to be in line with christianity then that is your deluded choice.

Alot of people. Any rational person would be concerned that the music they listen to has strange or sinister hidden meanings.

You actually mention george carlin . . . funny.
Interesting that this Led Zepplin thread brought up the topic of satanism. The church os satan actually adher to atheist beliefs and that we the creation are gods. George Carlin himself was an atheist also. Here’s one of his many quotes: “I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood.”

Another irony. The beatles are actually the ones who helped make new age crowleyan beliefs a part of pop culture in the west. Thanks largely to their efforts we have generations of rebellious, anti-christian air heads to deal with

And I don’t intend to get into an argument about the beatles connection or contribution to the moral and spiritual decadence in the western world. That can be addressed in a separate thread

 

[BrooklynBoy200]

And I don’t intend to get into an argument about the beatles connection or contribution to the moral and spiritual decadence in the western world. That can be addressed in a separate thread

Alright.

But when i say “listen to correctly” i mean…uh…listen to correctly.

As in, the way you’re supposed to. The way that doesn’t require you to slow it down and struggle to hear something satanic in it.

And i’m pretty sure there is nothing satanic or even immoral in the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven.

And are you suggesting that because Carlin’s an atheist and he doesn’t think we should listen to records backwards, listening to records the normal way is now wrong? I don’t think his religious beliefs have anything to do with this.

 

[lumenorientale]

And how exactly has rock music been used for good?

What about those Farm Aid concerts back in the 80’s? Now, I’m not saying that rock has done half the good that the Church has. The Church wins, hands down. But we have to recognize the good in things.

This all makes me want to listen to some Neil Young…

 

[Joe_5859]

What about those Farm Aid concerts back in the 80’s? Now, I’m not saying that rock has done half the good that the Church has. The Church wins, hands down. But we have to recognize the good in things.

This all makes me want to listen to some Neil Young…

Or how about Rock for Life?

 

[Brooklyn]

Here are some interesting quotes about music that you might want to consider:

Aristotle – “Music directly represents the passions or states of the soul - gentleness,
anger, courage, temperance . . . if one listens to the wrong kind of music he will
become the wrong kind of person; but conversely, if he listens to the right kind of
music he will tend to become the right kind of person” (Ibid).

Claudio Monteverdi, “The end of all music is to affect the soul.”

J. S. Bach, “The aim and final reason of music should be nothing else but the glory of
God and the refreshment of the spirit.”

Robert Schumann, “Music is the perfect expression of the soul.”

Musak Inc., “Unlike drugs, music affects us psychologically and physiologically without
invading the blood stream. The subtle influence of music has been harnessed in
programs providing controlled stimulus progression for people at work and play.”

Music is used in the Church to worship Our Lord. We are told that there are heavenly choirs of angels, so that says that music is very important to Our Lord. Of course, anything of importance to God is something that Satan would want to destroy.

We should give great thought to the kind of music we listen to and/or play. You may or may not agree that Led Zepplin and rock music in general is satanic, but it is a fact that Satan counterfeits everything Jesus does, so you can be sure that it is certainly possible for music to be satanic, especially if it is something that will take us away from what is good and holy.

Ask yourself what you are feeling when you listen to Led Zepplin or other types of music - is it something that you would want to share with Jesus, or is it merely sensual or worse? Remember, whatever is not of God is of Satan, there is no other choice.

Mary

 

[WackBob]

Here are some interesting quotes about music that you might want to consider:

Aristotle – “Music directly represents the passions or states of the soul - gentleness,
anger, courage, temperance . . . if one listens to the wrong kind of music he will
become the wrong kind of person; but conversely, if he listens to the right kind of
music he will tend to become the right kind of person” (Ibid).

Claudio Monteverdi, “The end of all music is to affect the soul.”

J. S. Bach, “The aim and final reason of music should be nothing else but the glory of
God and the refreshment of the spirit.”

Robert Schumann, “Music is the perfect expression of the soul.”

Musak Inc., “Unlike drugs, music affects us psychologically and physiologically without
invading the blood stream. The subtle influence of music has been harnessed in
programs providing controlled stimulus progression for people at work and play.”

Music is used in the Church to worship Our Lord. We are told that there are heavenly choirs of angels, so that says that music is very important to Our Lord. Of course, anything of importance to God is something that Satan would want to destroy.

We should give great thought to the kind of music we listen to and/or play. You may or may not agree that Led Zepplin and rock music in general is satanic, but it is a fact that Satan counterfeits everything Jesus does, so you can be sure that it is certainly possible for music to be satanic, especially if it is something that will take us away from what is good and holy.

Ask yourself what you are feeling when you listen to Led Zepplin or other types of music - is it something that you would want to share with Jesus, or is it merely sensual or worse? Remember, whatever is not of God is of Satan, there is no other choice.

Mary

That’s a nice compilation of interesting quotes but…I’m getting a subtle feeling that you think Zep is bad and Satanic without backing it up with any real proof. I don’t feel “sensual or perverted feelings” when I listen to Zep, no it’s far from that. Why would you be under the immpression that you would feel such things? Remember, Page didn’t write lyrics so he couldn’t write any Crowly pereverted lines, unless you think his riffs make you feel “sensual”

 

[Joe_5859]

That’s a nice compilation of interesting quotes but…I’m getting a subtle feeling that you think Zep is bad and Satanic without backing it up with any real proof. I don’t feel “sensual or perverted feelings” when I listen to Zep, no it’s far from that. Why would you be under the immpression that you would feel such things? Remember, Page didn’t write lyrics so he couldn’t write any Crowly pereverted lines, unless you think his riffs make you feel “sensual”

I get the distinct impression that most people that think rock is “satanic” are not at all familiar with that type of music.

 

[tomarin]

You can listening to a lot of different stuff backwards you can here words but that doesn’t meen it was put there on purpous or even satanic. I’m interested in this band now but don’t want to listen to satanic stuffs so whats your take on it?

I think the poster who distinguished between “satanic” and “pagan” is on to something. I’ve listened to their eponymous first album 4 or 5 times this summer for the guitar-playing, mostly and there’s definitely something pagan about the music, but I don’t think it’s satanic. And paganism isn’t all bad.

 

[WackBob]

And paganism isn’t all bad.

I think what you ment was not all paganism is satanic. I don’t think any kind of paganism is good but I don’t consider all of it “devil worshipp”. I get your meaning though.

 

[BrooklynBoy200]

I think what you ment was not all paganism is satanic. I don’t think any kind of paganism is good but I don’t consider all of it “devil worshipp”. I get your meaning though.

lol well technically, wouldn’t all paganism be satanic? i mean, if you’re not worshiping God, you’re pretty much worshiping Satan.

But there’s a difference between paganism and just loving nature.
I’ve always heard a more “nature-loving”, “medieval fantasy” -type sound to Zeppelin.

 

[WackBob]

well I guess you could indirectly connect all pagan worship to satan but what I meant was not all of it uses devils and human sacrifices and the really bad stuff that Direct Satanists do.

Then you might say “well even if they don’t use human sacrifice they’re still satanists” but the difference is that while all Satanists have bad intentions and really want to converese with Satan and bring about bad stuff, not all pagan people are trying to bring down others with Satans help and generally cause havoc. So even if they’re indirectly worshipping the devil they’re not as ingrossed in Satan.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

The Beatles and Led Zeppelin Rocks!

Far, far left liberal politicians are satanic lets get real.

However my favorite group is Alice Cooper because that band took all that hippy dippy flower power love garbage and stabbed in the heart man.

HOOAH!

 

[tomarin]

lol well technically, wouldn’t all paganism be satanic? i mean, if you’re not worshiping God, you’re pretty much worshiping Satan.

Good question. My admittedly limited understanding of this is that medieval theologians, in order to account for the glories of the pagan civilizations of antiquity (i.e. Greece and Rome), some aspects of which surpassed the contemporary achievements of Christian civilization in a somewhat glaring fashion, came up with the idea of “pagan virtues” which in theory could lead virtuous pagans to heaven after a time spent purifying in Purgatory. If pagan virtues exist, then God is ultimately their source because He is the source of all that is good and virtuous. Therefore it is not correct to say that everything about paganism is satanic.

That’s why I said “not everything pagan is bad.” Courage for example is considered a pagan virtue, I believe, and courage isn’t bad.

 

[Joe_5859]

Good question. My admittedly limited understanding of this is that medieval theologians, in order to account for the glories of the pagan civilizations of antiquity (i.e. Greece and Rome), some aspects of which surpassed the contemporary achievements of Christian civilization in a somewhat glaring fashion, came up with the idea of “pagan virtues” which in theory could lead virtuous pagans to heaven after a time spent purifying in Purgatory. If pagan virtues exist, then God is ultimately their source because He is the source of all that is good and virtuous. Therefore it is not correct to say that everything about paganism is satanic.

That’s why I said “not everything pagan is bad.” Courage for example is considered a pagan virtue, I believe, and courage isn’t bad.

I’m a firm believer in being precise with our language. Of course there is a sense in which “Whoever is not with [God] is against [God]” (Luke 11:23), but then there is also a sense in which “whoever is not against us is for us” (Mark 9:40). I guess it depends upon your point of view.

So, in a sense, anything that is opposed to God is “satanic”. But when we go around liberally calling everything “satanic”, I think people start to take us far less seriously, particularly when the group we are referring to is adamant that they are not satanic because they don’t even believe in the existence of the devil.

That’s why I’m immediately skeptical whenever a discussion starts out with someone saying “such-and-such is satanic”. It might be bad but “satanic” is usually not the most descriptive adjective to use.