Led zeppelin!!!

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Ah yes Jharek…and I always found the organs to be rather cheesy. 😃

Not many…and those who do are slowly returning to the tradition (no cheesy organs).

I am rather fond of Gregorian chant. 😉
 
Thus two kinds of music were formed, the secular, which arouses emotion—any kind of emotion—and ecclesiastical music, which evokes contrition. St. John Chrysostom strongly condemns the attempts that were made by some of his contemporaries to introduce into the Church secular music, the music of the theatre and the mimes.
Photios Kontoglou
 
Diary of a Madman is an absolute marvel of an album IMO. Not a bad song on that thing. But the album cover is REALLY BAD! 😛

You want an even worse example? Dio! Look at the cover of “Holy Diver!” Shoot, that is a great album but I feel REALLY guilty buying that album! 😛

I think a solid E chord with distortion sounds evil enough! Just go E to F to F# and back and it’s evil already! 😃
JHow said:
Which is partly why I keep asking how the music itself is bad and what is it in the music that makes is bad?

To your point, I don’t let my kids listen to “Diary of a Madman”, but Randy Rhoads’ guitar work on that track is phenomenal - and classically influenced, as well. Are fifths and diminshed chords inherently evil - or do they just sound bad?
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Is there a secret subliminal message in the green font? 😛
Mickey said:
Thus two kinds of music were formed, the secular, which arouses emotion—any kind of emotion—and ecclesiastical music, which evokes contrition. St. John Chrysostom strongly condemns the attempts that were made by some of his contemporaries to introduce into the Church secular music, the music of the theatre and the mimes.
Photios Kontoglou
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Mickey said:
LOL! Your bishops commissioned that study. But I agree that the world is a cause for the passions—but we can either act on it or not. And in the case of Led Zeppelin, I prefer to not expose myself to it.
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I’m not concerned with who commissioned the study. I’m not obligated to agree with it and I do not. As far as Led Zeppelin I’ve just never been a fan and if you’re not for the lyrical content I can appreciate that… but it doesn’t give you license to judge all rock or metal as bad as has been pointed out repeatedly, there’s no logic behind that conclusion.
These people are looking for reasons for their downfall. They are partly correct. The world introduced the ideas…and they accepted them. They should not be mocked. We are all sinners.
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I never claimed not to be a sinner… but I’ve NEVER tried to blame outside influences for my sins. Consider The Confiteor…

“I confess to Almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord, our God.”

Notice it says in what I NOT society has done or failed to do.
It will be more like this. “God, I know that you gave me free will. And I willingly subjected myself to carnal pleasures. I promise to change my mind and my heart. Please forgive me…I am a wretched sinner.”
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You assume too much. For you and I or I would guess the majority on this forum that’s what it would be. But to the fools who geniunely take no personal responsibility for their actions? No. The problem with this line of thinking and with this ridiculous study is that it only reaffirms the horribly stupid idea that we as Catholics (or wannabe Catholics in my case) have to fight against WE as people are responsible for what WE do… WE have to ask for God’s forgiveness. “Society is a factor” is nothing more than a poor attempt at relinquishing some or all of one’s personal responsibility.
 
mdrummer5 said:
I’m not concerned with who commissioned the study.
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Ok.
mdrummer5 said:
I never claimed not to be a sinner… but I’ve NEVER tried to blame outside influences for my sins.
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Do you not believe that the devil tries to tempt you? Of course, if you accept the thoughts, you have no one to blame but yourself. However, outside influences are a factor. And I do not know anyone who is able to reject all outside influences. The best way (in some circumstances) is to avoid certain influences.
mdrummer5 said:
“Society is a factor” is nothing more than a poor attempt at relinquishing some or all of one’s personal responsibility.
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Society is indeed a factor. But more importantly for us…do we follow the bad thought.
 
Mickey said:
Do you not believe that the devil tries to tempt you? Of course, if you accept the thoughts, you have no one to blame but yourself. However, outside influences are a factor. And I do not know anyone who is able to reject all outside influences. The best way (in some circumstances) is to avoid certain influences.
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Do I believe the devile tries to tempt me, sure… do I think it’s the factor for most of my sins… no. Yes society CAN play a SMALL part in the way we sin but it is indeed a small factor but in some cases it’s not even that.

For instance, I work in a very high stress environment (which is why they let me play on the internet in my downtime) and have to deal with confrontational phone calls all day which can very quickly errupt into full blown arguments that have on more than one occassion ended with me hanging up the phone angry to the point that I’d consider it sinful, society is not a factor in that. It’s my choice to be that angry about it. Obviously I don’t consciously say “I’m going to be angry” but the point is there’s no outside influence (society or the devil) causing me to be angry it’s a matter of sinful pride between me and the person I was arguing with. Priests who touch little boys are no different. They had lustful thoughts… they acted on them. That’s not society’s fault.
 
mdrummer5 said:
For instance, I work in a very high stress environment (which is why they let me play on the internet in my downtime) and have to deal with confrontational phone calls all day which can very quickly errupt into full blown arguments that have on more than one occassion ended with me hanging up the phone angry
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That explains a lot. I’m kidding. 😃
mdrummer5 said:
society is not a factor in that.
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Sure it is. Someone on the other end of the phone said something that insulted your pride. You acted on it…got angry…and hung up on them.
 
I haven’t read through the thread. Those guys definitely had occult references in their lyrics.

Some of us musician types were attracted to and focused on the underlying music because of the musicianship…couldn’t sing through a whole Zep song if I wanted to. Unlike many of today’s musicians, musicians of that era had some real musicianship in their background: jazz, old-school blues, choir music, etc.
 
My great-grandmother was a Kennedy! 🙂

I agree to some extent. Some are calling it “the woodstock syndrome”. But I also do not think it can be completely discounted. I have seen the Divine Liturgy in the Ruthenian Catholic Church revised to become gender neutral–those clergy responsible were formed in the 60’s. I have seen the Bible translated to be gender neutral and politically correct. I have seen Catholic retreat centers teaching yoga, enneagram, reiki, mandalas, and eco-spirtuality by nuns who were formed in the 60’s. I have lived the era of the 60’s and 70’s as a Latin Catholic when they turned the priest around, removed the Communion rails, and replaced my one time beloved Liturgy with the Novus Ordo. I have witnessed the protestantization of the Catholic Church after Vatican II (in America).

And now we see a supposed correlation between the abuse scandal and the era of free love.

Can you tell I’m not a big fan of the hippies? 😃
 
I think what is so disturbing about the scandals/abuse wasn’t even the abuse itself but how it was handled—with cover-ups, lies, refusing to contact authorities, moving the abusers to other fresh pastures for new abuse, and seeing this as PR instead of a moral issue…
 
Nice. I’ve always wanted to visit Ireland. I hear it is beautiful. 👍

I think there were many factors. But I think that the wide acceptance of alternative lifestyles of that era, could have created an atmosphere where a sexual deviant felt he had more of a license to act on his perverted lusts.

Nice segway. I think Keith Moon said that about an up and coming band being formed by Jimmy Page.

You’re good.😃
 
I said I prefer the Byzantine chant. The history of ecclesiatical music (especially Byzantine) does not include musical instuments. To me, that is genuine sacred music. Having said that, I am not here to condemn all music that is not Byzantine or Gregorian chant. I think much of our secular music today (rock and pop and rap) conveys dangerous messages of lust and violence and drug use. And I cannot condone some songs from a musician that are seemingly free from these messages while other compositions from the same musician are spouting vulgarities.
 
If anyone didn’t find it yet, the “Causes and Contexts” report is here:

usccb.org/mr/causes-and-context-of-sexual-abuse-of-minors-by-catholic-priests-in-the-united-states-1950-2010.pdf

I agree with Mickey (:eek:) generally on the 1960s. There was a lot of nonsense that went down in that period.

Relating to Led Zeppelin, however, think back to how people experienced music in the 1970s. As a kid in rural Virginia, I never went to a Zeppelin concert, we didn’t have stations that played Zeppelin on the radio - only later did you start to hear “Stairway” on late night request shows. What we had were the albums. LPs or cassettes. Jimmy Page may have been taking heroin, but I wasn’t. Robert Plant may have been swishing his hips suggestively on stage, but I couldn’t tell that from the album. Mostly what we experienced were the sounds and the words as sung, if we could understand them. Like I said previously, we didn’t have the internet to look up what Plant was actually singing until much later, or in the case of “Bring it on Home”, when I heard Sonny Boy Williamson sing the song.

I would listen to **“Got up, gone higher, all aboard.” **and hear something like: **“Gon upp, ge-higher, all a-bow” **or, **“Watch out, watch out…” **and hear "What - moo, What - moo"

Mostly what I heard was the music.
 
Mickey said:
Sure it is. Someone on the other end of the phone said something that insulted your pride. You acted on it…got angry…and hung up on them.
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To clarify “hanging up angry” doesn’t mean I “hung up on them”. Beyond that if my pride is insulted it’s my own fault not the fault of the person saying it and one person does not make a society.

Society:
  1. The aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community.
  2. The community of people living in a particular region and having shared customs, laws, and organizations
Person:
  1. A human being regarded as an individual.
  2. Used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual.
 
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