Legalistic??

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Philomena

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How do you respond to someone who calls Catholics "legalistic’? I have recently befriended a wonderful Christian woman who knows I am a devout Catholic, and is probably trying to ‘save’ me from our ‘unentlightened’ Faith. Thank your for any advice you can give me!
 
Well, first I’d explore what she means by “legalistic” with concrete examples that you can discuss. Something so general as calling you “legalistic” is really not something you can discuss or defend against. It’s like calling Americans “materialistic.” A vastly oversimplified generalization.
 
Sometimes as I read these posts, I do find individuals who may be bound by legalistic constraints. The reality is that the Holy Spirit has held the Church together for over two millennium.
The Church is a work of God, initiated by Christ and held together by the Holy Spirit. It stands as a testimony to heaven and earth that Jesus is Lord of all creation, and that his plans and purposes are perfect. Christ is the only one who can pour out divine grace and wisdom and strength, who can keep us safe and bring us to the Father. Human shepards help us hear and understand the voice of our divine shepard (The Word Among Us, Jan. 2009).
It may be that non-Catholics who view the Catholic Church as legalistic see the discipline to which we as God’s children are called. This includes daily prayer. It includes the rosary that non-Catholics associate with the Catholic Church and the piety that is manifested in the lives of devout Catholics. As members of the Catholic Church, we are all members of the same family. Family members spend time together in order to grow in intimate relation with one another. We spend time with the One we love out of desire. It becomes legalistic when prayer becomes a “must” on our to do list.
Is family life not strengthened when we gather together for meals. Yes, there is an obligation to attend Sunday Mass. The term “obligation” can also be seen as “something that must be done” lest we lose our soul. It is the Mass, the family meal, that is missed by those who leave the Church. It is the Mass, the family gathering that so strongly draws individuals back to the Catholic Church. Studies show that families who eat meals together have a better chance of staying together. Is it not strong families that demand family members be home to eat supper together? This legal obligation to attend Mass could, therefore, be seen as a requirement to be together as family in order that our individual and communal relationships with God are strengthened. As faith grows, this gathering together becomes less obligation and more a desire to spend time with God and others who share the same Faith, as we become one in the Lord.
 
Philomena said:
How do you respond to someone who calls Catholics "legalistic’? I have recently befriended a wonderful Christian woman who knows I am a devout Catholic, and is probably trying to ‘save’ me from our ‘unentlightened’ Faith. Thank your for any advice you can give me!
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This comes from a common misconception by protestants, who think that St Paul’s strictures against the works of the law apply to all forms of covenential bonds. In other words, they OVERAPPLIED the words of St Paul.

What St Paul states is that we are to avoid the LAWS OF MAN dominating the ideas of salvation… that is to say, pharisees had displaced the laws of God with their own man made laws, and this was what beleivers are to be wary of. Paul, however, says NOTHING WHATSOEVER that ALL religious law is abolished. In fact, the word of God (all of it) carries the force of law unto all believers (because if God’s word is ultimate truth and we fail to follow that truth then we are lost).

In other words, when said person calls you legalistic, ask why you shouldn’t be concerned with following God’s law…
 
I’d point your friend straight to these sayings of Christ Himself -

‘If you love me YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS’ (John 14:15)

‘Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him … "you know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’” And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.” THEN JESUS, LOOKING AT HIM, LOVED HIM …’ Mark 10:17-21

‘Why do you call me Lord Lord, yet DO NOT DO WHAT I TELL YOU’? (Luke 6:46)

‘Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations … TEACHING THEM TO DO ALL THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU’ (Matt 28:19-20)
 
I think I’d say “No, your faith is anarchistic.”

Then, having once again leveled the playing field, we could talk about the actual issues.
 
VociMike said:
I think I’d say “No, your faith is anarchistic.”

Then, having once again leveled the playing field, we could talk about the actual issues.
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Not everyone knows what anarchic means - ‘a bloody disorganised mess’ would be closer to the mark.
 
Actually you will find fundamentalist protestants are extremely legalistic when it suits them.

Generally this is an over-legalistic interpretation of certain selectively-chosen bible verses (but not others)… You’ll often hear Protestants say “Where in the Bible does it say to do that?” implying that we can only do things expressly sanctioned in the Protestant 66 book bible.

Some specific examples:

Rom 3:23: “for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…”

This is used to argue against the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary, even though the verse was not written with this topic in mind. In fact it is quite clear that the word translated ALL in the verse above is NOT absolute, as borne out in the following verse, since EVERYONE in Judea was not baptised.

Mt 3:5-6, “Then went out to Him Jerusalem, and ALL Judea, and ALL the region about the Jordan; and they were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.”

In fact the word ALL is being used as the word EVERYONE might be used in the phrase “EVERYONE pays taxes”. It cannot be used as proof that every single individual on earth has paid tax. Trying to use the verse in this way is excessive Legalism.

Another example:
Exodus 20:4-5: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Does this mean that no images can be used in worship, as some people argue? No, since only a few verses later, God COMMANDS images to be used in worship.
Exodus 25:18-19: “And make two cherubim (angels) out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other…The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them.”

Eph 2.9: “-not by works, so that no-one can boast” is used to try to separate Salvation from works of Love and obedience to the Lord. This is in spite of the clear scriptural evidence to the contrary in James, Matthew 25 Matthew 6:14, 19:7 and elsewhere.

This seems to follow the pattern of the Pharisees, who neglected the Principles behind Scripture by adhering over-rigidly to what they imagined was the letter of Scripture.
 
Philomena said:
How do you respond to someone who calls Catholics "legalistic’? I have recently befriended a wonderful Christian woman who knows I am a devout Catholic, and is probably trying to ‘save’ me from our ‘unentlightened’ Faith. Thank your for any advice you can give me!
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**Admit it 🙂 - & point out that not being Catholic is no protection against legalism, just as to be Catholic is not. **​

 
Philomena said:
How do you respond to someone who calls Catholics "legalistic’? I have recently befriended a wonderful Christian woman who knows I am a devout Catholic, and is probably trying to ‘save’ me from our ‘unentlightened’ Faith. Thank your for any advice you can give me!
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Well, I know Catholics who get so caught up with the rules that they forget what those rules are about- but just because that is a temptation for some doesn’t mean the entire system is wrong.

The Catholic Church has many rules- and you can’t just disobey them when you don’t see the reason behind them. Just like a precisely performed dance or piece of music, part of the beauty of the liturgy is its adherance to the rules.

The Magisterium also makes laws (Canon Law) to make sure the liturgy is celebrated appropriately, and that people fill the roles that they should fill (and that they don’t try to fill roles they shouldn’t try to fill).

It has been said that Jesus did not leave us a book- he left us a Church. The Church guides us- the magisterium makes laws because it knows what will help us on our path toward holiness. It gives us saints for us to learn about and imitate, it provides us with movements like Opus Dei to provide a structure in which we can develop our spiritual life. The pope writes encyclicals, and bishops write pastoral letters so we can study them and learn from what they have to say to us. I don’t think the Church is legalistic in the least.
 
1ke said:
Well, first I’d explore what she means by “legalistic” with concrete examples that you can discuss. Something so general as calling you “legalistic” is really not something you can discuss or defend against. It’s like calling Americans “materialistic.” A vastly oversimplified generalization.
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I agree.

As well, there are those within our our faith that are legalistic, and quite a number of them on this forum, quick to whip out a “reference” to some church document in reponse to every question. :eek:

One of the things that the OP may point out is that in comparison to the legalistic system that the Almighty put in place for his own people, the Israellites, Catholism pales in comparison.

The big thing I’ve noticed about the CC is that over the years she has done the best job of defining and explaning our faith and moral system (probably since we’re the original Christians 😃 ) than any other Christians can and do. Perhaps that’s a matter of time, since they’ve not been around since the beginning. 🤷

In defining our faith and morals, sometimes Catholicism comes off as overly legalistic, to be true. But methinks a proper undestanding means that these guidelines are meant to further our understanding of what it means to really be a Christian.
 
Catholocism is only “legalistic” in the same sense that God Himself is legalistic. We demonstrate our complete faith in Jesus by living ALL that He commanded to do, not dismissing parts of His teachings as “unneccessary, because we have faith”.

If the Israelites relied on their “faith” in God in the Protestant sense of the word, the original passover would not have gone so favorably for the Jews. They would have woke up the next morning shocked to see their first-born DEAD, because if they decided to forgo slaughtering the lamb, smearing their doorposts in that blood, eating the sacrifice, and all that other legalistic stuff on the premise that God is omniscient, and knew their house was inhabited by Israelites who believed in Him, so it wasn’t necessary to perform that “empty ritual”, they would have gotten a visit from an angel.
 
Newbie2 said:
I agree…

In defining our faith and morals, sometimes Catholicism comes off as overly legalistic, to be true. But methinks a proper understanding means that these guidelines are meant to further our understanding of what it means to really be a Christian.
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I likewise agree. The rules that we have been given are a guideline. The rituals provide a framework for our continued development as Christians. They are not an end in themselves.
What type of kingdom does not have laws?
 
Philomena said:
How do you respond to someone who calls Catholics "legalistic’? I have recently befriended a wonderful Christian woman who knows I am a devout Catholic, and is probably trying to ‘save’ me from our ‘unentlightened’ Faith. Thank your for any advice you can give me!
Click to expand...
Philomena, I think if you keep talking about how much you love Jesus she will know that you are really a Christian contrary to what she may have been taught about Catholics growing up. Hope this helps.
 
Ask them why they tithe.

There is a curious correspondence between those who believe they must tithe to their community and those who call the Catholic Church “legalistic” despite the Church not hanging onto the lucrative aspects of the Old Covenant.
 
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