Legalization of ALL drugs

[JMJSHJ]

Just because it sounds simple doesn’t mean it’s easy.

Nor will it be perfect.

But yes I do think that this approach would work.

It doesn’t matter if its simple or easy or hard but what is best. Since we all agree that drugs (heroine, cocaine, crack) are very bad for you, then legalization should not be implemented.

While there are people who if you tell them to not do something will end up doing it, there are more people that would do it and continue to do it until they OD because it was legalized.

Like I said earlier, legalization of abortion has increased abortions being performed over 40 years now.

 

[katholikos12]

It doesn’t matter if its simple or easy or hard but what is best. Since we all agree that drugs (heroine, cocaine, crack) are very bad for you, then legalization should not be implemented.

While there are people who if you tell them to not do something will end up doing it, there are more people that would do it and continue to do it until they OD because it was legalized.

Like I said earlier, legalization of abortion has increased abortions being performed over 40 years now.

Abortion: ok fine its increased in the last 40 years.

A kid walks by a house everyday on his way to school. Its abandoned. He never does anything to the house. The day you tell that kid “don’t throw rocks at the house”, what will he do? Throw rocks! Why? Because the “strength of sin in the law”!

We all agree that cigarettes are bad for you, why should those be legal? Cigarettes will eventually kill you, but you can actually live on moderate doses of heroin as long as you have the supply, clean needles and what not.

It matters what is best? So as long as people are doing what is best its ok? Because right now Obama thinks that providing contraception is best as an employer, and doesn’t care what anyone else thinks.

But if he were to allow us the *freedom * to NOT give contraception as it has been for the history of this country, at least our rights would not be trampled on!

If people want to kill themselves with drugs, let them. Our tax dollars and the propensity of increased size of government is perpetuated by this useless drug war, which only gives the criminals a far more lucrative market and contributes to the trampling of our religious freedom.

 

[JMJSHJ]

Abortion: ok fine its increased in the last 40 years.

A kid walks by a house everyday on his way to school. Its abandoned. He never does anything to the house. The day you tell that kid “don’t throw rocks at the house”, what will he do? Throw rocks! Why? Because the “strength of sin in the law”!

We all agree that cigarettes are bad for you, why should those be legal? Cigarettes will eventually kill you, but you can actually live on moderate doses of heroin as long as you have the supply, clean needles and what not.

It matters what is best? So as long as people are doing what is best its ok? Because right now Obama thinks that providing contraception is best as an employer, and doesn’t care what anyone else thinks.

But if he were to allow us the *freedom * to NOT give contraception as it has been for the history of this country, at least our rights would not be trampled on!

If people want to kill themselves with drugs, let them. Our tax dollars and the propensity of increased size of government is perpetuated by this useless drug war, which only gives the criminals a far more lucrative market and contributes to the trampling of our religious freedom.

First off adults shouldn’t act like kids. Adults should act like adults.

Secondly cigarettes are legal but if you took 25 injections of heroine a day you would be dead in a day if not a week. Whereas cigarette users typically smoke a pack (25) a day. Furthermore some have said that if tobacco wasn’t legal now, and they tried to introduce smoking into the general population it probably wouldn’t succeed.

Regarding your frustration about letting people kill themselves with drugs, I can sympathize but I then realize as a Catholic I can’t be that callous.

Look at God, we are all going to sin and look at his mercy that he doesn’t snuff the entire human race!!

Remember this thread is not about political reality but our Catholic responsibilities.

 

[katholikos12]

First off adults shouldn’t act like kids. Adults should act like adults.

Secondly cigarettes are legal but if you took 25 injections of heroine a day you would be dead in a day if not a week. Whereas cigarette users typically smoke a pack (25) a day. Furthermore some have said that if tobacco wasn’t legal now, and they tried to introduce smoking into the general population it probably wouldn’t succeed.

Regarding your frustration about letting people kill themselves with drugs, I can sympathize but I then realize as a Catholic I can’t be that callous.

Look at God, we are all going to sin and look at his mercy that he doesn’t snuff the entire human race!!

Remember this thread is not about political reality but our Catholic responsibilities.

Very true.

If anyone has read the Catholic Answers magazine article Narcissus and the Leviathan it explains why “freedom” doesnt work. The freedom assumes that there is nothing holy therefore anything goes.

It’s frustrating.

Time to pray.

 

[kirk1294199]

I think anything done in moderation is moral, alchohol, drugs, etc it is when you get into excess use, that is when people have a problem

 

[jlandgraf63]

The immediate impulse for Catholics might be to ban these substances by law because they are immoral and dangerous for you and others. Even most priests and clergy I would wager would probably go along with this. What about our greatest teacher and authority though? What would Jesus do if he came upon a person who was high on drugs? Is Jesus the “through him in the slammer” type of guy? Would he immediately call the authorities and have him/her hauled off to prison? Is that what he did when he came upon a prostitute? It’s hard to say exactly what Jesus would do in this situation. He could get angry at the person for wasting the beautiful gift of life given to that person by his heavenly Father. Jesus so rarely lost his temper though. My guess is he would take pity on that person and heal them of their addiction and illness - hopefully opening their eyes to the damage they are doing to themselves and others around them. If this is what Jesus would do, then I think this is what we should strive to do too.

 

[kirk1294199]

I can see your concern, drugs can be a problem and so can many other things, we live in a fallen world nothing will ever be perfect in this life, only in the life to come will things be perfect. Some people can drink alchohol in moderation and have no problem with it, others can not I once went to confession and one of the things I ask the priest was if smoking pot was a sin, he said not if in moderation it is used. Scripture talk of using things in moderation I think it is the truth, but some people cannot use things like alcohol and other things in moderation they I think like any of us would have to look at the way they are using something, in some casses im sure they are better off not using anything. God put all these things here for a should pray for a best solution.

In the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit

 

[GEddie]

The immediate impulse for Catholics might be to ban these substances by law because they are immoral and dangerous for you and others. Even most priests and clergy I would wager would probably go along with this. What about our greatest teacher and authority though? What would Jesus do if he came upon a person who was high on drugs? Is Jesus the “through him in the slammer” type of guy? Would he immediately call the authorities and have him/her hauled off to prison? Is that what he did when he came upon a prostitute? It’s hard to say exactly what Jesus would do in this situation. He could get angry at the person for wasting the beautiful gift of life given to that person by his heavenly Father. Jesus so rarely lost his temper though. My guess is he would take pity on that person and heal them of their addiction and illness - hopefully opening their eyes to the damage they are doing to themselves and others around them. If this is what Jesus would do, then I think this is what we should strive to do too.

Well, you can’t heal someone if they do not ask to be healed.

And when the general society approves the “illness”, they may not know they need healing.

Our LORD may not have said, lock them away, but HE never said, go forth and keep doing it.

ICXC NIKA

 

[detroitgrass]

Caffeine is a drug. So should we ban chocolate? Many people, including the framers of the US Constitution, believed in a limited government. It is not the role of the government to ban drugs to better society. Yes, some drugs are a bane to society which may cause a person to steal, lie, and destroy a family. Just like God allows you to be free, so should the government. This by no means is saying God or the government condones such behavior. Just as the framers want to prohibit the government from allowing you to have guns, does not mean you should use those guns to kill kids in a school. But the government has no authority to ban you and we do not want a government to dictate anyone’s actions. You want to remove drugs, do that with education by showing how drugs damage your body. Explain how God does not want you to damage your body. The fact of the matter is almost every drug can be good for if used correctly for the right circumstances. Most women like a shot to reduce pain when giving a baby. Heck, after a hard days work dealing with stress a shot of hard liquor sometimes helps put you in a better mood.

 

[quettandil]

Intoxication is evil. Therefore, it is tempting to ban totally the ingestion of all substances that can be used as intoxicants. However, there is one such substance, alcohol, that we are positively commanded to consume. Grape juice is not valid matter for confecting the Eucharist. Mustum, with minimal but nonzero alcohol content, yes; grape juice, no. So if our Lord’s own Blood contains an appreciable amount of what are, chemically and pharmacologically, alcohol molecules, it cannot be the Lord’s will to ban completely the ingestion of such molecules. So we do not ban alcohol, and we generally leave it to the individual conscience to decide to consume or not to consume in a given set of specific circumstances, based on whether that instance will cause sinful intoxication. For some persons, even the smallest act of consumption is a proximate occasion of continuing to drink to intoxication, so they are obligated to avoid alcohol altogether.

The question then arises of whether we may take the same approach to other potentially intoxicating molecules and if not, why not. If there is a temperate use for the substance, it would seem that forbidding the temperate use is an injustice even though by doing so we would also prevent abuse. It is hard to imagine how any recreational use of heroin or crack could be temperate, yet the people of the Andes, within their culture, use coca temperately and beneficially. I have known some people who forget the difference between right and wrong at the first dose of cannabis, and others who at least appear to be using it temperately, though because it is illegal they sin against the Fourth Commandment even if they do not gravely offend against the Fifth.

 

[JMJSHJ]

Caffeine is a drug. So should we ban chocolate? Many people, including the framers of the US Constitution, believed in a limited government. It is not the role of the government to ban drugs to better society. Yes, some drugs are a bane to society which may cause a person to steal, lie, and destroy a family. Just like God allows you to be free, so should the government. This by no means is saying God or the government condones such behavior. Just as the framers want to prohibit the government from allowing you to have guns, does not mean you should use those guns to kill kids in a school. But the government has no authority to ban you and we do not want a government to dictate anyone’s actions. You want to remove drugs, do that with education by showing how drugs damage your body. Explain how God does not want you to damage your body. The fact of the matter is almost every drug can be good for if used correctly for the right circumstances. Most women like a shot to reduce pain when giving a baby. Heck, after a hard days work dealing with stress a shot of hard liquor sometimes helps put you in a better mood.

The drugs that I am talking about and which were defined in the OP are hard drugs like cocaine, heroine, crack. The illegal ones, for now.

 

[detroitgrass]

I am against govt control. Who is the govt to decide what you can and cannot put in your body? Seriously, there are people who want to ban refined sugar. Should the govt ban sugar? What is hard drugs today will change tomorrow. Besides according to the government MJ is worse than cocaine. Most doctors admit that the damage from drugs is far less than the damage of being locked up in prison.

ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/ctsc/documents/CTSCNewsletter_Spring_2012.pdf

Doing drugs is not the smart decision a person can make. Just the same wearing a seatbelt is a good idea, but the govt should not mandate it.

God allows free will, why don’t you?

 

[someperson555]

really? REALLY? this is why i cannot take most other catholics seriously. you would support banning pornography, prostitution, and gay marriage, all of these things are less harmful than drugs. yet you wholeheartedly support the legalization of drugs, alcohol, and tobacco. seriously WTH?? youre all just a bunch of virgins who have pent up frustrations so you want to have your drugs and guns.
LOL opposes prostitution
supports drugs, alcohol, guns

EDIT: i just want to clarify that im against ALL the above mentioned things, i think drugs, alcohol, tobacco, guns, porn, and prostitution should be banned. but i see a lot of hypocrisy among catholics who think that prostituion “is a great evil” yet they are OK with taking drugs and drinking and using guns. seriously BE CONSISTENT.

 

[detroitgrass]

I am against gay marriage, but I am also against any marriage not performed by a priest. I look at marriage as a church event between a man and a woman. If I had it my way, a judge or a captain would not be able to perform marriages. This argument has little to do with gays being married by the liberals but more about money and destroying the church and its cvalues. If the gays can get married, and a church turns them down, then they lose their tax exempt status.

I think prostitution should be legal as well. I am not condoning it by any means. Why should the government arrest someone for having paid sex? The only way it should be illegal is if they started to arrest people for adultery, which would go way beyond prostitution.

Legal does not mean moral.

The point of owning a gun is to protect yourself against your own government. In the governments view, if it can remove guns, than it can remove freedom of speech, religion, ect. Owning a gun does not give you a right to go murdering people.

 

[someperson555]

I am against gay marriage, but I am also against any marriage not performed by a priest. I look at marriage as a church event between a man and a woman. If I had it my way, a judge or a captain would not be able to perform marriages. This argument has little to do with gays being married by the liberals but more about money and destroying the church and its cvalues. If the gays can get married, and a church turns them down, then they lose their tax exempt status.

I think prostitution should be legal as well. I am not condoning it by any means. Why should the government arrest someone for having paid sex? The only way it should be illegal is if they started to arrest people for adultery, which would go way beyond prostitution.

Legal does not mean moral.

The point of owning a gun is to protect yourself against your own government. In the governments view, if it can remove guns, than it can remove freedom of speech, religion, ect. Owning a gun does not give you a right to go murdering people.

now see, i RESPECT your point of view sir. although i may not agree with it. I RESPECT it because at least you are CONSISTENT. but my beef with most catholics here is that they would throw people in jail for sexual crimes, yet they would support the legalization of drugs and codone the use of tobacco. as i said before i think drugs, prostitution, alcohol, guns, and porn should be banned.
i think most catholics need to choose a side. either ban all these things or legalize all these things. any middle road is hypocritical.

i see the same hypocrisy concerning the death penalty and assisted suicide. i say either ban both or allow both.

 

[GEddie]

really? REALLY? this is why i cannot take most other catholics seriously. you would support banning pornography, prostitution, and gay marriage, all of these things are less harmful than drugs. yet you wholeheartedly support the legalization of drugs, alcohol, and tobacco. seriously WTH?? youre all just a bunch of virgins who have pent up frustrations so you want to have your drugs and guns.
LOL opposes prostitution
supports drugs, alcohol, guns

EDIT: i just want to clarify that im against ALL the above mentioned things, i think drugs, alcohol, tobacco, guns, porn, and prostitution should be banned. but i see a lot of hypocrisy among catholics who think that prostituion “is a great evil” yet they are OK with taking drugs and drinking and using guns. seriously BE CONSISTENT.

The Catholic Church as a body, DOES NOT support drug legalization. A handful of people who are Catholic do. So there is no inconsistency.

Even if a majority of Catholics supported drug legalization, that would mean nothing. The Church is not a democracy, never has been. It is a body. Bodies take orders from
their head.

ICXC NIKA

 

[someperson555]

The Catholic Church as a body, DOES NOT support drug legalization. A handful of people who are Catholic do. So there is no inconsistency.

Even if a majority of Catholics supported drug legalization, that would mean nothing. The Church is not a democracy, never has been. It is a body. Bodies take orders from
their head.

ICXC NIKA

i was referring to those catholics. i know there are many catholics out there who are consistent.

by the way, allow me to apologize for my tone. im just having a stressful night. i kind of took it out on you guys lol. sorry.

 

[GEddie]

i was referring to those catholics. i know there are many catholics out there who are consistent.

by the way, allow me to apologize for my tone. im just having a stressful night. i kind of took it out on you guys lol. sorry.

OK by me ICXC NIKA

 

[Tony2255]

CCC 2355 Prostitution does injury to the dignity of the person who engages in it, reducing the person to an instrument of sexual pleasure. The one who pays sins gravely against himself: he violates the chastity to which his Baptism pledged him and defiles his body, the temple of the Holy Spirit.

This is why prostitution is and should remain illegal.

But let’s look at the last sentence. Defiles the body, the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Like prostitution, drugs defile the Temple. The Lord entrusted the Temple to us to care and tend to it providing a sanctuary worthy of the Holy Spirit. This is equally true for substances that can be used in excess or risk immediate damage or death. Crack, heroin, meth, etc I believe fall in the latter.

What I found interesting about the Harm Reduction was that drugs weren’t just being legalized. Instead pure, less risky forms were being produced to use in conjunction with medically assisted addiction treatment to get addicts clean and stay clean. I don’t believe legalization is the answer. We need to take a serious look at our treatment programs.

A majority of drug users use drugs or abuse substances to replace or attempt to overcome the feelings of depression, stress, or inadequacy. It is those feelings that need to be addressed and treated. The chemical dependency is just a resulting consequence. We must remember that through suffering we have the opportunity to participate in the saving work of Jesus. (CCC1521)

Murder is illegal. We could say that mankind is advanced enough to recognize murder is wrong and we should expect them to conduct themselves accordingly. So it should be legal as not to tempt others. But I think we would all disagree with this assessment. Just because someone tells you not to go home and kill your wife doesn’t mean you’ll be tempted to. Rules and regulations are very necessary. That’s why the Bible is full of them.

 

[someperson555]

CCC 2355 Prostitution does injury to the dignity of the person who engages in it, reducing the person to an instrument of sexual pleasure. The one who pays sins gravely against himself: he violates the chastity to which his Baptism pledged him and defiles his body, the temple of the Holy Spirit.

This is why prostitution is and should remain illegal.

But let’s look at the last sentence. Defiles the body, the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Like prostitution, drugs defile the Temple. The Lord entrusted the Temple to us to care and tend to it providing a sanctuary worthy of the Holy Spirit. This is equally true for substances that can be used in excess or risk immediate damage or death. Crack, heroin, meth, etc I believe fall in the latter.

What I found interesting about the Harm Reduction was that drugs weren’t just being legalized. Instead pure, less risky forms were being produced to use in conjunction with medically assisted addiction treatment to get addicts clean and stay clean. I don’t believe legalization is the answer. We need to take a serious look at our treatment programs.

A majority of drug users use drugs or abuse substances to replace or attempt to overcome the feelings of depression, stress, or inadequacy. It is those feelings that need to be addressed and treated. The chemical dependency is just a resulting consequence. We must remember that through suffering we have the opportunity to participate in the saving work of Jesus. (CCC1521)

Murder is illegal. We could say that mankind is advanced enough to recognize murder is wrong and we should expect them to conduct themselves accordingly. So it should be legal as not to tempt others. But I think we would all disagree with this assessment. Just because someone tells you not to go home and kill your wife doesn’t mean you’ll be tempted to. Rules and regulations are very necessary. That’s why the Bible is full of them.

yes, and i would say drugs defile the human body even more than prostitution. sex is at least natural whereas ingesting harmful chemicals leave permanent damage as well as physically and emotionally harm the innocent people around the addict.
though prostitution is also pretty severe because it is one of the most selfish things a person can do. sell his/ her God given body for money. sex is a gift which should be given freely or not at all.
all thyes ethings must be banned: drugs, alcohol, prostitution