Legalized marijuana

[Robert_Sock]

Let us see…

alcohol is the product of fermentation.
Cannabis is not

Ethyl Alcohol is an alcohol -OH
THC is a Terpenoid derived from isoprene

Alcohol is used for cooking, drinking, disinfection, as a solvent
THC is not an essential element for cooking, is not a disinfectant or solvent

Alcohol is legal on the state and Federal level
THC is not legal for social consumption at the Federal level

And your point is…?

 

[CopticChristian]

And your point is…?

My point is…

Every argument that can be used to promote alcohol can also be used to promote marijuana.

They are different substances that do not equate in an argument to justify one vs the other…

alcohol is the product of fermentation.
Cannabis is not

Ethyl Alcohol is an alcohol -OH
THC is a Terpenoid derived from isoprene

Alcohol is used for cooking, drinking, disinfection, as a solvent
THC is not an essential element for cooking, is not a disinfectant or solvent

Alcohol is legal on the state and Federal level
THC is not legal for social consumption at the Federal level

 

[ExCatholicGuy]

My point is…

alcohol is the product of fermentation.
Cannabis is not

Ethyl Alcohol is an alcohol -OH
THC is a Terpenoid derived from isoprene

Alcohol is used for cooking, drinking, disinfection, as a solvent
THC is not an essential element for cooking, is not a disinfectant or solvent

Alcohol is legal on the state and Federal level
THC is not legal for social consumption at the Federal level

I think the question should be: what is the relevance of those distinctions to the discussion?

 

[Robert_Sock]

My point is…

alcohol is the product of fermentation.
Cannabis is not

Ethyl Alcohol is an alcohol -OH
THC is a Terpenoid derived from isoprene

Alcohol is used for cooking, drinking, disinfection, as a solvent
THC is not an essential element for cooking, is not a disinfectant or solvent

Alcohol is legal on the state and Federal level
THC is not legal for social consumption at the Federal level

Of course they’re different, Copic, but your point, please. A knife is different from a fork too, but so what?

 

[CopticChristian]

I think the question should be: what is the relevance of those distinctions to the discussion?

I disagree with this notion of relevance or not relevant. Anything posted is relevant to the person posting and relevant to their thinking in light of the discussion. That does not equate to your seeing the relevance however not everything has to be relevant as determined by any one person.

A better statement is…

What does this mean to you in light of the discussion and is non judgemental.

 

[CopticChristian]

Of course they’re different, Copic, but your point, please. A knife is different from a fork too, but so what?

I just edited the post. To argue in favor of anything you have to have a starting point.

In the context of knife and fork, they are both eating utensils however in light of eating they are not chopsticks that are neither knife or fork and yet used to eat.

So, in terms of arguing in favor of something there has to be a starting point as to what the substances are…from there you go forward…

So,

**Every argument that can be used to promote alcohol can also be used to promote marijuana. **

They are different substances that do not equate in an argument to justify one vs the other…

alcohol is the product of fermentation.
Cannabis is not

Ethyl Alcohol is an alcohol -OH
THC is a Terpenoid derived from isoprene

Alcohol is used for cooking, drinking, disinfection, as a solvent
THC is not an essential element for cooking, is not a disinfectant or solvent

Alcohol is legal on the state and Federal level
THC is not legal for social consumption at the Federal level

This information is the foundation of the argument…

 

[Robert_Sock]

I just edited the post. To argue in favor of anything you have to have a starting point.

In the context of knife and fork, they are both eating utensils however in light of eating they are not chopsticks that are neither knife or fork and yet used to eat.

So, in terms of arguing in favor of something there has to be a starting point as to what the substances are…from there you go forward…

So,

They are different substances that do not equate in an argument to justify one vs the other…

alcohol is the product of fermentation.
Cannabis is not

Ethyl Alcohol is an alcohol -OH
THC is a Terpenoid derived from isoprene

Alcohol is used for cooking, drinking, disinfection, as a solvent
THC is not an essential element for cooking, is not a disinfectant or solvent

Alcohol is legal on the state and Federal level
THC is not legal for social consumption at the Federal level

This information is the foundation of the argument…

Another tangent with no straight answer to my criticism.

 

[CopticChristian]

Another tangent with no straight answer to my criticism.

Of course they’re different, Copic, but your point, please. A knife is different from a fork too, but so what?

Robert,

This was a post addressed to other than you. You commented and asked for the reason it was posted. It was answered. Since you were not posting that there are similar arguments for two substances, your question was related to the reason why it was posted in response to someone else.

You do not see the reason that it relates however it is not a tangent.

If someone is going to argue in favor of a substance then they have to start with…

What are these substances and what do they have in common or do not have in common.

You use marijuana for sleep. There are better and legal alternatives that you choose not to take. Here are some legal alternatives…

Halcion
Restoril
Lunesta

and there are others…

If you choose to use Marijuana as a sleep aid, then you are using it as a drug that would be classified as…

Sedative Hyphnotic…and then there can be discussion as to what other Sedative Hypnotics are available to be used and how do they compare to THC…

Ok…

 

[Casey123]

I went to confession today and was asking a priest about legalized marijuana and whether or not it would be a mortal sin to smoke it in moderation as long as one didn’t smoke it to the point of sacrificing reason (like we do wih alcohol). He seemed to be leaning toward “yes”, but wasn’t absolutely definitive and said he Church has no OFFICIAL position. His advice was to stay away.

I was absolved, but left unsure as to whether I would ever partake in a legal setting.

What do you think? Is it ok do smoke a small amount to relax in a legal setting, like we do with alcohol (it IS possible to do so without getting totally blasted, of course)?

And is my absolution affected because I didn’t leave the confessional totally resolved never to do this in a legal setting? I wouldn’t think so, since I don’t personally think it would be a mortal sin, but it WOULD be going against the advice of a priest who clearly thinks it may be a mortal sin, so…maybe part of me wasn’t fully resolved not to commit a mortal sin? Basically I left thinking that I would probably do it in a legal setting but that I would do more research on it. Now, obviously if the Church came out and specifically addressed marijuana as mortally sinful and I was determined to do it anyway, that would be a clear problem, but otherwise, is it just up to my own conscience? My absolution is good, right? sorry-I scruple sometimes in the confessional.

Ehhhhh… It’s not strange to find people that don’t drink alcohol, and it’s also not strange to find people that do. With marijuana, I feel it’s a personal decision. If you try it and like it, go nuts. If you try it and don’t like it, then don’t smoke it and don’t feel pressured to. If you don’t want to try it at all, then don’t try it. Everybody’s different. Some people are into it, some people aren’t. Some people enjoy it, some people don’t; much in the same fashion as some people enjoy sushi and some people don’t.

It’s a personal choice, and I don’t think the majority of people think much of it.

I don’t understand the issue people have with marijuana. Does legal alcohol mean that some 15 year old is going to sneak a beer at a party? Probably. Does it mean all of them will? No, of course not, and most don’t. Same thing with legal marijuana. In fact, marijuana’s illegality doesn’t stop anyone from smoking/using it.

Whether or not you decide to use marijuana is up to you, but do so as a responsible adult and do so with discretion (I don’t even mean that out of concern for legality, but more just common courtesy. Some people don’t like the smell).

 

[WingsOfEagles]

I just edited the post. To argue in favor of anything you have to have a starting point.

In the context of knife and fork, they are both eating utensils however in light of eating they are not chopsticks that are neither knife or fork and yet used to eat.

So, in terms of arguing in favor of something there has to be a starting point as to what the substances are…from there you go forward…

.

Ok, but alcohol and marijuana are both drugs. Both can be used to relax. Neither seems to have long-term health consequences when used in moderation, but both can have health consequences when used in larger doses on a regular basis.

Not sure how I stand on this legal issue yet, but to be honest, I’ve never been entirely sure why alcohol is legal, but not marijuana. My understanding is that marijuana does not have a worse effect on the body than alcohol does. In fact, I believe cigarettes cause more health issues than marijuana.

My interpretation of the Catechism is that drugs are illegal if illegal at the federal level because you are breaking the law. However, if marijuana was legalized by the federal government, then it would rank with alcohol as ok in moderation.

 

[Casey123]

You use marijuana for sleep. There are better and legal alternatives that you choose not to take.

I would beg to differ about how “better” chemically manufactured, addictive, and side-effect laden pills are compared to the much more benign marijuana, but everyone’s entitled to their own opinion.

 

[CopticChristian]

I would beg to differ about how “better” chemically manufactured, addictive, and side-effect laden pills are to the much more benign marijuana, but everyone’s entitled to their own opinion.

Do not beg.

Explain your understanding concerning how manufactured, addictive, and side effect laden pills are not benign and marijuana is benign.

I am willing to learn? Are you?

Allow me to aid you in our commencement and engagement in learning together…here is a free article for you to read…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3570572/

Psychiatric Conditions Associated with Cannabis Abuse

In addition to producing dependence, cannabis use is associated with a wide range of psychiatric disorders (The following popper user interface control may not be accessible. Tab to the next button to revert the control to an accessible version.

Destroy user interface control44).While there is a clear relationship between the use of cannabis and psychosis, different hypotheses for the same have been propounded. One such, which describes psychosis occurring exclusively with cannabis use has limited evidence. There is strong evidence that cannabis use may precipitate schizophrenia or exacerbate its symptoms. There is also reasonable evidence that cannabis use exacerbates the symptoms of psychosis (The following popper user interface control may not be accessible. Tab to the next button to revert the control to an accessible version.

Let us accept that THC is addictive and has been shown to be associated with development of psychiatric disorders that would include Psychosis.

teach me something…

 

[Robert_Sock]

Robert,

This was a post addressed to other than you. You commented and asked for the reason it was posted. It was answered. Since you were not posting that there are similar arguments for two substances, your question was related to the reason why it was posted in response to someone else.

You do not see the reason that it relates however it is not a tangent.

If someone is going to argue in favor of a substance then they have to start with…

What are these substances and what do they have in common or do not have in common.

You use marijuana for sleep. There are better and legal alternatives that you choose not to take. Here are some legal alternatives…

Halcion
Restoril
Lunesta

and there are others…

If you choose to use Marijuana as a sleep aid, then you are using it as a drug that would be classified as…

Sedative Hyphnotic…and then there can be discussion as to what other Sedative Hypnotics are available to be used and how do they compare to THC…

Ok…

You’re being very dishonest in the first part of your post, but I’ll choose to let it slide so we can get this thread back on tract.

I already tried a number of these medications, for example Lunesta, and they did not help my sleep one bit. The only medications that work are the benzodiazepines, which are highly addictive. One thing that did help is Phenibut, an over the counter nutritional supplement, but you ought not take it more than three days in a row. During the absence of Phenibut, I smoke a small amount of pot which all my doctors and psychologist condone.

 

[Casey123]

You’re being very dishonest in the first part of your post, but I’ll choose to let it slide so we can get this thread back on tract.

I already tried a number of these medications, for example Lunesta, and they did not help my sleep one bit. The only medications that work are the benzodiazepines, which are highly addictive. One thing that did help is Phenibut, an over the counter nutritional supplement, but you ought not take it more than three days in a row. During the absence of Phenibut, I smoke a small amount of pot which all my doctors and psychologist condone.

I was about to say the same thing.

I was never a big marijuana user (maybe once or twice before) until about two years ago when I was diagnosed with clinical depression, which while widely misunderstood as simply “being sad”, it’s actually rather debilitating. Celexa and other SSRI’s had horrible side effects, including the loss of sex drive (with the risk of this loss being permanent with prolonged use) and the molding of your emotional range to always in the “middle”, like not being able to feel great happiness or great sadness. It would “treat” depression, but for me, it wasn’t worth what I lost in the process. So, after about 7-10 days on Celexa, I stopped under my doctor’s supervision, and switched to the dopamine side of the depression spectrum with Wellbutrin, which, while it solved the problems that Celexa gave me, it gave me issues of its own - my attention span was so short, I felt I was taking a “stupid pill” and it also gave me a very short temper, and because of that, my familial and social relationships suffered dramatically. I was on this for about a year. So, again, on my doctor’s supervision, I stopped taking Wellbutrin, and started taking low doses of Adderall - and while that solved the attention span problem, the short temper remained, and I figured that was merely the trade off I had to make in order to treat depression.

Finally, my doctor spoke with me about marijuana as a supplement to my depression medication, and with his recommendation, I got a medical card, and started using it twice a day, and I gotta tell you, it’s the only thing that actually works. Maybe someone else’s doctor might give them a different set of treatment options, but I’m glad mine pointed me in a direction that finally worked. Depression has been at bay since January 2011, and anyone who has ever suffered from depression will understand what I mean when I say that I’m finally “me” again.

I’m not opposed at all to its recreational use (so long as people follow the same or similar rules that alcohol regulation is accompanied with), but I’m a staunch proponent of its medical benefits. If it works for you, it works for you, you know?

My only complaint is that thanks to how our state’s medical marijuana laws are written, I have to go to two different places on different sides of town in order to get Adderall and cannabis, which is annoying and time consuming. But while it’s an inconvenience, it’s not that big of a deal. Except for parking tickets and gas prices.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I was about to say the same thing.

I was never a big marijuana user (maybe once or twice before) until about two years ago when I was diagnosed with clinical depression, which while widely misunderstood as simply “being sad”, it’s actually rather debilitating. Celexa and other SSRI’s had horrible side effects, including the loss of sex drive (with the risk of this loss being permanent with prolonged use) and the molding of your emotional range to always in the “middle”, like not being able to feel great happiness or great sadness. It would “treat” depression, but for me, it wasn’t worth what I lost in the process. So, after about 7-10 days on Celexa, I stopped under my doctor’s supervision, and switched to the dopamine side of the depression spectrum with Wellbutrin, which, while it solved the problems that Celexa gave me, but gave me issues of its own - my attention span was so short, I felt I was taking a “stupid pill” and it also gave me a very short temper, and because of that, my familial and social relationships suffered dramatically. I was on this for about a year. So, again, on my doctor’s supervision, I stopped taking Wellbutrin, and started taking low doses of Adderall - and while that solved the attention span problem, the short temper remained, and I figured that was merely the trade off I had to make in order to treat depression.

Finally, my doctor spoke with me about marijuana as a supplement to my depression medication, and with his recommendation, I got a medical card, and started using it twice a day, and I gotta tell you, it’s the only thing that actually works. Maybe someone else’s doctor might give them a different set of treatment options, but I’m glad mine pointed me in a direction that finally worked. Depression has been at bay since January 2011, and anyone who has ever suffered from depression will understand what I mean when I say that I’m finally “me” again.

I’m not opposed at all to its recreational use (so long as people follow the same or similar rules that alcohol regulation is accompanied with), but I’m a staunch proponent of its medical benefits. If it works for you, it works for you, you know?

Yes, I have severe major depression, the urge to panic, and a diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder. I’m taking Paxil for depression, and it does not do much for my depression but it sure does reduce my sex drive. I was addicted to pron and masturbation and the reduction of my libido was a most welcome. This is the only reason I take it.

neuronetics.com/ Check this link out for a treatment for depression when all else fails. It’s suppose to have very few side effects. But it is not yet covered by my insurance. When my insurance does cover it, I will give it a try.

 

[Casey123]

Yes, I have severe major depression, the urge to panic, and a diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder. I’m taking Paxil for depression, and it does not do much for my depression but it sure does reduce my sex drive. I was addicted to pron and masturbation and the reduction of my libido was a most welcome. This is the only reason I take it.

neuronetics.com/ Check this link out for a treatment for depression when all else fails. It’s suppose to have very few side effects. But it is not yet covered by my insurance. When my insurance does cover it, I will give it a try.

I’ll check the link out, thanks

Paxil seems pretty similar to Celexa in that regard, I believe both are SSRIs with few differences. You might want to talk to your doctor about an Adderall (or other dopamine reuptake) supplement if Paxil isn’t treating your depression on its own. A pill that doesn’t adequately treat what you need it to isn’t worth taking/paying for, IMO. Believe me when I say I know exactly how you feel.

 

[ExCatholicGuy]

I’m glad your son is back to normal. I think that as with alcohol, some people become dependent on marijuana and it can change the way they behave. Others can use a small amount once a month or once a week and be totally fine. I still have never heard a good reason why alcohol is permissable but marijuana is not, besides if course that alcohol is used. In the Bible. Every argument that can be used to promote alcohol can also be used to promote marijuana.

I suspect the CCC’s disparate treatment of alcohol vs. other drugs was a pragmatic decision, taken in recognition of cultural realities in the majority of countries where Catholicism is strongest. In other words, condemning alcohol use would likely lead to widespread, open defiance of Church authority on the matter, whereas drug use, being illegal in many places and generally frowned on by society, is much a safer target.

 

[CopticChristian]

I was about to say the same thing.

I was never a big marijuana user (maybe once or twice before) until about two years ago when I was diagnosed with clinical depression, which while widely misunderstood as simply “being sad”, it’s actually rather debilitating. Celexa and other SSRI’s had horrible side effects, including the loss of sex drive (with the risk of this loss being permanent with prolonged use) and the molding of your emotional range to always in the “middle”, like not being able to feel great happiness or great sadness. It would “treat” depression, but for me, it wasn’t worth what I lost in the process. So, after about 7-10 days on Celexa, I stopped under my doctor’s supervision, and switched to the dopamine side of the depression spectrum with Wellbutrin, which, while it solved the problems that Celexa gave me, it gave me issues of its own - my attention span was so short, I felt I was taking a “stupid pill” and it also gave me a very short temper, and because of that, my familial and social relationships suffered dramatically. I was on this for about a year. So, again, on my doctor’s supervision, I stopped taking Wellbutrin, and started taking low doses of Adderall - and while that solved the attention span problem, the short temper remained, and I figured that was merely the trade off I had to make in order to treat depression.

Finally, my doctor spoke with me about marijuana as a supplement to my depression medication, and with his recommendation, I got a medical card, and started using it twice a day, and I gotta tell you, it’s the only thing that actually works. Maybe someone else’s doctor might give them a different set of treatment options, but I’m glad mine pointed me in a direction that finally worked. Depression has been at bay since January 2011, and anyone who has ever suffered from depression will understand what I mean when I say that I’m finally “me” again.

I’m not opposed at all to its recreational use (so long as people follow the same or similar rules that alcohol regulation is accompanied with), but I’m a staunch proponent of its medical benefits. If it works for you, it works for you, you know?

My only complaint is that thanks to how our state’s medical marijuana laws are written, I have to go to two different places on different sides of town in order to get Adderall and cannabis, which is annoying and time consuming. But while it’s an inconvenience, it’s not that big of a deal. Except for parking tickets and gas prices.

It would appear that your personal experience speaks for you and does not translate to what others may experience. If you are well then you are well.

 

[CopticChristian]

Yes, I have severe major depression, the urge to panic, and a diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder. I’m taking Paxil for depression, and it does not do much for my depression but it sure does reduce my sex drive. I was addicted to pron and masturbation and the reduction of my libido was a most welcome. This is the only reason I take it.

neuronetics.com/ Check this link out for a treatment for depression when all else fails. It’s suppose to have very few side effects. But it is not yet covered by my insurance. When my insurance does cover it, I will give it a try.

Neuronetics appears to be a short term, not long term intervention…

Have you heard anything about diet as it relates to depression and schizoaffective disorder?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Neuronetics appears to be a short term, not long term intervention…

Have you heard anything about diet as it relates to depression and schizoaffective disorder?

I have high cholesterol, diabetes, a big weight gain and tardive dyskinesia because of one medication that I’m on (Zyprexa). This drug is really wicked! Other than eating foods that are low in carbohydrates, I try to eat normally. I’m not sure what foods are going to affect my depression or schizoaffective disorder. My doctors certainly did not tell me to control my diet other than the low carbohydrates. If there is an association between diet and depression and my schizoaffective disorder, I would be pleased to hear about it.