Legionaries of Christ and the Tridentine Mass?

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Maybe if the Legionaries of Christ end up being dissolved or reformed under a different name due to this Maciel aftermath we will have more priests to celebrate the Extraordinary Form in more parishes.

What do you think?
 
For the record The Legionaries of Christ have no intention of dissolving or renaming the order. 🙂
 
For the record The Legionaries of Christ have no intention of dissolving or renaming the order. 🙂
Something along these lines is going to have to occur.

There has never been an order in the history of our 2000 year old Church founded by the likes of Maciel that has survived and thrived.

Its Charism, which comes from the founder, is fundamentally called into question. Sadly, I think many Legion and RC members are trying to pretend that everything is okay… it isn’t.

Furthermore, some of us have been diligent pointing out the problems with the Legion and Maciel. Many who have done so have been slandered and attacked viciously. There will need to be an apology here.

I think an excellent article is here:

canonlaw.info/2009/02/maciel-meltdown-and-future-of-legion.html

Maciel’s behavior was truly outrageous.
 
For the record The Legionaries of Christ have no intention of dissolving or renaming the order. 🙂
For the record, thus far, Tom Hoopes, a very good journalist and a lay man who edits the National Catholic Register, is the only Legion official thus far to offer any apology to Maciel’s critics.

Connected to this (I think adherents’ behavior is perhaps characteristic of the flawed charism of the Legion) faithful Catholics are still waiting for an apology from Fr. John Morris LC for his outrageous and very public behavior towards Fr. Euteneuer of Human Life International. Fr. Morris attacked Fr. Euteneuer for sharing the truth about the immorality of contraception on the Sean Hannity show.
 
You all will get your apology that you have been waiting for on EWTN tonight.
As I have stated the Legion will continue to be the Legion and will come out of this stronger than they have ever been before.
For the record God is the judge in this matter not any of us.
But if it is the apology you are looking for watch EWTN!
 
For the record, thus far, Tom Hoopes, a very good journalist and a lay man who edits the National Catholic Register, is the only Legion official thus far to offer any apology to Maciel’s critics.
Father Alvaro the General Director of the Legionaries of Christ has sent letters of apology to thousands.Maybe you just did not get yours yet.Send me your address and I will make sure that you all get one.
 
Father Alvaro the General Director of the Legionaries of Christ has sent letters of apology to thousands.Maybe you just did not get yours yet.Send me your address and I will make sure that you all get one.
I thought this apology was for Maciel’s actions…

Not to those critics of Maciel who were slandered by the Legion leadership.

Am I wrong? If so I am open to correction. Thanks!

Also, please, understand. When the founder is this disordered, everything associated with the founder should be chucked. The charism he left can’t help but be colored by who he was.

Consider the fact that Legion priests are formed largely by the writings of the founder. This is terrible stuff. It isn’t all okay, and it isn’t fixed by just saying that we will keep the good and let God sort it out.

The Legion first: should invite an independent Vatican commission to go through the Legion top to bottom and do a thorough investigation.

Second: we need that investigation to ask the vital questions: “who knew what… and when.” For Maciel to get away with what he got away with, people around him had to know.

Third: the still disordered view of obedience that the Legion makes its priests adhere to needs to be chucked. Initial changes demanded by Rome were made, but were insufficient.

I could go on, but enough has already been said I think.
 
The apology is for Father Maciel’s actions.
He made a mistake in which he himself has answered to God for. He was what about 67 years old so all his former years of working for Christ are no good because he made a mistake.
Why throw out the baby with the bath water?

Father Maciel did many wonderful things and the charism of the Legion is good. It was approved by the Pope many years ago.

When we had a poor leader as a Pope did we just toss out the Vatican and say we need to erase the past and start over. No the work is done to correct the errors so they do not happen again.

When we have a rotten president do we burn the White House and scrap all that was started by George Washington? No we take a good look at what works and what does not.

The Legion has produced many wonderful priests, brothers, and consecrated. So why do they all need to be penalized for the mistake of Father Maciel?

The Legionaires know and have admitted there was a problem but that was with the man not the charism of the order.

I pray that you all find God’s love and mercy as we have been given so much of it ourselves.
**MAT 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
**
 
I think much could be learned from looking at the history of the Capuchin Franciscans.

In the early 1500’s, three Italian Franciscans – Matthew of Bascio, and the brothers Louis and Raphael Tenaglia of Fossombrone – sought to reform the Order through a return to a stricter adherence to the Rule of St. Francis. Matthew of Bascio would leave the reform and return to the Conventuals. As the Catholic Encyclopedia relates,
Louis of Fossombrone threw off the habit and apostatized. His apostasy perhaps influenced Paul III when on 3 January, 1537, he forbade the Capuchins to establish any houses of their reform outside Italy. But a greater blow fell in 1542 when Bernardine of Siena – the famous Occhino, not to be confounded with Saint Bernardine, who d. in 1444 – the successor of Bernardine of Asti as vicar-general, apostatized and joined the Protestant Reformers. The scandal caused by this defection gave new vigour to the efforts of those who were opposed to the Capuchins, and at this time it was seriously considered at the Roman Court whether they should be suppressed. In fact it was generally said amongst the people that their suppression was already decreed.
The order was saved in part because of the timely pleadings of its remaining leadership – Francis of Jesi and Bernardine of Asti – and in part because of the sanctity of some of its members, such as St. Felix of Cantalice. They became one of the leading forces in the Counter-Reformation, and continue to serve the Church and give Her saints. Padre Pio was a Capuchin.

If the Legionaries of Christ can look to the Capuchins for an example, I think they will be just fine.

God bless,

Fr. Boyd
 
Legion of Christ director asks forgiveness for ‘all this suffering’
Zenit has also published an article entitled Legion Regrets Founder´s Conduct: Congregation Apologizes for Scandal, dated February 4.

A Legion priest answers your question in regards to the charism
OSV: On a related note, for the purposes of carrying on the charism of the Legion, how does the congregation do that considering the founder apparently led a double life? How can his teachings on the charism be reliable?

Father Williams: We have the assurance of the Church’s magisterium to rely on. A number of cardinals have stepped forward to encourage us to remain strong and keep moving forward, despite the tremendous difficulties.

Anonymous, why would anyone assume that a Legionary (Fr. Williams) is lying just because another Legionary told lies? Are all Americans to be distrusted because of a lie by George W Bush or Barack Obama?

And Giselle, you have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The cardinals’ comments support the premise that the order as a whole is sound and is an asset to the Church. And the Church’s initial approval and subsequent revision of the constitutions would indicate that your proposed review has been and is being conducted.

February 5, 2009 2:42 PM
 
The order was saved in part because of the timely pleadings of its remaining leadership – Francis of Jesi and Bernardine of Asti – and in part because of the sanctity of some of its members, such as St. Felix of Cantalice. They became one of the leading forces in the Counter-Reformation, and continue to serve the Church and give Her saints. Padre Pio was a Capuchin.

If the Legionaries of Christ can look to the Capuchins for an example, I think they will be just fine.

God bless,

Fr. Boyd
Thank you Father and I believe that Father Alvaro can do the same. He himself started the investigation. So we will pray for mercy on the Legion they are a good order.
 
Thank you Father and I believe that Father Alvaro can do the same. He himself started the investigation. So we will pray for mercy on the Legion they are a good order.
If the Legion is conducting the investigation - if they have any oversight, control, regulation, authority over, or anything other than bringing in independent investigator(s), then the resulting conclusions will not be worth the paper they are written on - or not written on. The fox does not guard the hen coop.

Whether or not the Legion can survive the truth, survive the repercussions of their prior responses to allegations, survive the loss of faith to those Legion priests who did not know, and survive a true honest and complete independent investigation is not known; and it will not be for some time - a year, two years, maybe five or more, before this all shakes out. This is not likely to be something that is going to quietly be resolved and go away in a month or two.

Like Desi said: Lucy, you got some ‘splainin’ to do.

Going through an issue this immense will be somewhat similar to dealing with impending death: denial of the reality; anger directed outward; depression, bargaining, and then hopefully, finally acceptance. Survivial of the Legion will be in part how the leadership responds. They have a vested interest in the continuation of the Legion, and how they react could impact each and every priest under them. If the priests are not dealt with fairly and squarely, the dissolution of the Legion may come from within, rather than from above -above being either Rome of the leaders.

And it should come as no surprise that some cardinals might be saying that the Legion can survive this. Rome was not exactly on board when the snowball headed for hell, better knows as the sexual abuse scandal, started rolling down hill. Some of them minimized both the damage done, and what was awaiting - a phalanx of lawyers with the law on their side. One only needs to look at that response to have a less than whole hearted confidence that the cardinals in this case have even a clue. Maybe they do; but sitting in the ivory towers of Rome tends to remove one from the hurly burly of daily life on the street. And it is in that hurly burly life on the street that reality occurs, not in the ivory towers. That those same cardinals may be very intelligent can go without saying. However, intelligence and wisdom are not the same thing.
 
Fr. Thomas Berg’s statement about Fr. Maciel
Asking for Your Prayers

Deepest sorrow for the pain and scandal caused by our founder

February 6, 2009
Code:
 Last Thursday evening I was informed that, after an internal investigation of the charges lodged against him, it had been discovered that my religious congregation’s founder, Fr. Marcial Maciel Degollado fathered a child, who is now in her early 20s.  Fr. Maciel founded the Legion in 1941. He died on January 30, 2008.  On May 19, 2006, the Vatican released a communiqué requiring him to retire to a private life of penitence and prayer in light of numerous allegations brought before the Holy See, including accusations of sexual abuse of some of the first members of the congregation. At that time the Legion began its own internal investigation.  

Given the near impossibility of ascertaining what happened over so many years (the earliest accusations would have been dated to the 1950’s), and because I am not privy to the findings of any of these investigations, I do not know which of those earlier accusations might be true. Sadly, however, it seems evident that some of them must indeed be true.

In shock, sorrow, and with a humbled spirit, I want to express my deepest sorrow for anyone who, in any way, has been hurt by the moral failings of Fr. Maciel. Of my readers, I ask your prayers for each of them. They count not only on my prayers, but also on the personal acts of reparation that I intend to do to implore for each of them the grace, healing, and comfort that only God can give. I am so sorry for each of them, and for the scandal this has caused to the entire Church. 

For the members of my religious family, the Legionaries of Christ, I humbly ask for your prayers as we discern the road ahead and strive, each in our way and apostolic work, to continue to serve Christ and his Church.
tinyurl.com/aepef6
 
Just an FYI Father Jonathan Morris and Father John Williams both went into depth and apologized sincerely from the heart last night.
The Legion has apologized! I know for some of you it will never be enough. But it is over and we ask that you pray for all of us so that we can heal and follow the guidance of Rome.🤷
 
Just an FYI Father Jonathan Morris and Father John Williams both went into depth and apologized sincerely from the heart last night.
The Legion has apologized! I know for some of you it will never be enough. But it is over and we ask that you pray for all of us so that we can heal and follow the guidance of Rome.🤷
I cannot abide some of these comments in defense of the Legion.

Firstly, NO ONE has apologized for the TERRIBLE TREATMENT of those who for decades had the guts and temerity to stand up to Maciel’s various abuses.

Secondly, the new tactic being employed by the Legion is disgusting: “Fr. Maciel made one mistake… we cannot allow that mistake to change the good he did… etc. etc.”

Look… the initial statement from the legion is CRYSTAL CLEAR… Maciel has a number of VERY CREDIBLE charges that have been made against him. These include:
  1. Homosexual sex with seminarians, and even offering them absolution afterwards (an excommunicable offense)
  2. Theft - misdirection of funds
  3. Various affairs with women
  4. Drug use
  5. Dishonest approach to getting and keeping vocations
Add to this stuff he did above the board:

Building himself a tomb with Legion funds to rival the Pope…

Taking HUGE sums of money from people after misleading them about where the money was going.

The list goes on and on.

And NO ONE in the Legion has apologized to the serious journalists and lay people who have had the temerity to say something.

I am tired of what I perceive as “cult like” behavior in the more poorly balanced orders in the Church. The SSPX’s faithful’s initial defense of Williamson’s obvious evil is another example.

The Legion’s defense of Maciel… of pretending everything okay… and the HALF HEARTED APOLOGIZES THAT DON’T REALLY APOLOGIZE FOR ALL THE WRONGS DONE do not speak well of the Legion, or its followers.
 
Quite a list you have there.

Perhaps with time amends will be made.

In the meantime I think I will prepare my list ahead of time so I can go before Christ with my list before others make one up for me.

I wish as much time and energy was put into correcting the errors of our country.
As for me I am done posting on this issue. I have said my peace and being a RC member have been hurt like the others.
But Christ is our leader and in following Christ I will forgive as he has asked me to do.

I see from many of the posts I have read that people have way to much time on their hands and I pray that they heed Christ’s words instead of playing Christ. It was for all of us that he was crucified, died, and was buried. It is all of us that he forgives and I pray that you all find that peace and let Christ be the judge of Father Maciel.

I wish this much energy was put into repairing our country.
 
Quite a list you have there.

Perhaps with time amends will be made.

In the meantime I think I will prepare my list ahead of time so I can go before Christ with my list before others make one up for me.

I wish as much time and energy was put into correcting the errors of our country.
As for me I am done posting on this issue. I have said my peace and being a RC member have been hurt like the others.
But Christ is our leader and in following Christ I will forgive as he has asked me to do.

I see from many of the posts I have read that people have way to much time on their hands and I pray that they heed Christ’s words instead of playing Christ. It was for all of us that he was crucified, died, and was buried. It is all of us that he forgives and I pray that you all find that peace and let Christ be the judge of Father Maciel.

I wish this much energy was put into repairing our country.
Yes… you are quite right… 😛

After all, those who criticize the Legion don’t do things like teach about Theology of the Body or show up at the March for Life or are involved in the pro-life movement. We, after all, wouldn’t want to hurt our cause by actually confronting evil when it is within? How is that in our “self-interest?” 😛

All the charges against Maciel are FABRICATIONS. Even now, those who hate the great man and his wonderful order that have done nothing but good are plotting the overthrow not only of Maciel and his leadership (some of whom must have been complicit if the charges were accurate, therefore we know that they are not) but of the entire Church herself!

Maciel is like the Pope you see! We didn’t leave the Church because we had some problematic Popes, why should we question the Legion? Maciel is like the Popes, and someday, when all the liars and hypocrites who have dared have the temerity to say they suffered at the hands of the Legion and criticized well documented… oops… I mean poorly documented abuses and charges made by journalists of faith (New Oxford Review and others) are outed as the hypocrites they are, we will again ask for Maciel’s intercession from heaven.

In the meantime, well documented (oops, I mean poorly documented) charges of drug use, homosexuality, misappropriation of funds, affairs, children fathered, etc. etc. can be ignored…

As a matter of fact, when we form Legion priests, we will continue to use the writings of the GREAT FOUNDER as the source of their charism and spirituality, because we shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water. 😛

newoxfordreview.org/dossier.jsp?did=dossier-legionaries

amazon.com/Vows-Silence-Abuse-Power-Papacy/dp/1416589015/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234017874&sr=8-3
 
Quite a list you have there.

Perhaps with time amends will be made.

In the meantime I think I will prepare my list ahead of time so I can go before Christ with my list before others make one up for me.

I wish as much time and energy was put into correcting the errors of our country.
As for me I am done posting on this issue. I have said my peace and being a RC member have been hurt like the others.
But Christ is our leader and in following Christ I will forgive as he has asked me to do.

I see from many of the posts I have read that people have way to much time on their hands and I pray that they heed Christ’s words instead of playing Christ. It was for all of us that he was crucified, died, and was buried. It is all of us that he forgives and I pray that you all find that peace and let Christ be the judge of Father Maciel.

I wish this much energy was put into repairing our country.
Toni-I’m very sorry to hear all this brouhaha about Fr. Maciel. The media just loves inflaming, doesn’t it?

I’m not in Regnum Christi-too over my head for me-but I have been a financial supporter of the Legion for many years. I’ve gone to the Professions Mass in Cheshire, CT twice, in 1999 and 2006. I used to call regularly the liaison man in the business office near Cheshire, a former Legion seminarian, now married with a large family and an RC member. I can just imagine what he’s going through right now. In fact, he even made a job offer to me in 2007! I couldn’t do anything at the time because I had very little money and couldn’t afford the trip from Upstate NY to CT.

In 2006 I had a Legionary priest and seminary brother visit me in my home. They were real gentlemen!

I’m saddened by all the attacks against the Legion by people both within and without the Church. I hope that passions cool down soon and wounds heal.

I don’t get EWTN, so I didn’t see ‘The World Over’ program last night with Raymond Arroyo and the two Legion priests.

Yes-I wish that this much energy could be used to repairing our country.

Keep your head up-the Legion has done much good work for the Church. Fr. Maciel has faced his particular judgement-let’s leave it God to sort everything else out.

I’ll keep you-and all members of the Legion, priestly and lay-in my prayers.
 
From Fr. Richard Gill , Director of Regnum Christi in New York and of Our Lady of Mt. Kisco Retreat Center.

I’ve been a Legionary priest since 1991 and I have always loved my Congregation and my priestly vocation and I only hope Our Lord has used it as an effective means of grace for many people to find their way to a deeper relationship with Christ.

I thought I knew Fr. Maciel. I do believe he did many good things for many people. I have benefitted greatly from the formation and life I have lived as a Legionary for twenty-eight years. I defended Fr. Maciel because to the extent I thought I knew him, I sincerely believed the allegations against him were baseless.

Yet, in light of what has been coming out about him, I must say I am terribly sorry to have defended him. I believe I acted in good faith, yet nonetheless did an injustice to the victims.

I am deeply sorry to the people who have suffered from these inexcusable and reprehensible actions of Fr. Maciel. No person should have to suffer abuse at the hands of a priest in whom they have put their trust. And his actions have damaged the holiness of the Church and contributed to the alienation many people feel due to similar scandals in the Church.

I offer my prayers and sacrifices for anyone who was victimized, so they may continue to heal and discover the love of Jesus Christ.

I am confident that our superiors are working closely with the appropriate dicasteries of the Holy See to chart the best course forward for the Legion of Christ so it can be of better service to the Church and the Holy Father.

Fr. Richard Gill, LC
Our Lady of Mount Kisco Retreat Center
773 Armonk Road
Mt. Kisco, NY 10549
rgill@legionaries.org Posted with permission of the author.

Please keep all members of the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi in your prayers.
 
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