Legionaries of Christ

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JReducation said:
All of your points are well made. I just want to echo the one that I find to be criticial. When you are thinking of leaving the religious life or the priesthood or both, as in this case, you can’t just jump ship. You have to begin the discernment process again. That’s why the Church gives you the time to take a leave of absence or to test yourself in another setting, be it a diocese or a religious community. You don’t just leave and are now free. The Church won’t allow that. They will demand at least a leave of absence for at least a year and they can extend it up to five. During that time the person can return to the congregation or explore a diocese or another religious family. In the meantime, he has a year to live as a lay person. But his is bound to the vows and the constitutions of the congregation. He has to pray the Liturgy of the Hours under pain of sin. He has to remain celibate. He has to obey. He has to live poverty.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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We are getting some consensus here. I would venture the say the priest is “in crisis”, =not a good time to make life altering decisions. But it is very difficult for the priest. Because he is so uncomfortable now, he may just feel like running away from the source of so much hurt, deceit, and hypocrisy.
We have to help him slow down and not “despair”; he needs our support as family and friends. It is quite normal to feel overwhelmed sometimes, and it is wise to seek help. I am suggesting that he get help from someone outside the Legion, who is more “neutral”, to help “stabilize” his crisis and begin his new discernment process. Perhaps he can gradually overcome his narrow-minded training and realize that there is much more to the Catholic Church than the Legion of Christ. And that God is Our Loving Father who can give us a special calling and wants us to find peace in our true “calling”. He may realize that the Legionary spirituality was too Maciel-centered…But I empathize. It is not easy when you see your idols -even “holy” ones- crumble. We are talking about a change in World View, in Religous View and in Church View
The good news is that I believe Legion formation is Christ-centered. Christ has not changed and will not.
He may find a more “stripped down” spirituality, that relies less on human intermediaries, including charismatic saints A:cool: scary thought!
 
exLegionary said:
We are getting some consensus here. I would venture the say the priest is “in crisis”, =not a good time to make life altering decisions. But it is very difficult for the priest. Because he is so uncomfortable now, he may just feel like running away from the source of so much hurt, deceit, and hypocrisy.
We have to help him slow down and not “despair”; he needs our support as family and friends. It is quite normal to feel overwhelmed sometimes, and it is wise to seek help. I am suggesting that he get help from someone outside the Legion, who is more “neutral”, to help “stabilize” his crisis and begin his new discernment process. Perhaps he can gradually overcome his narrow-minded training and realize that there is much more to the Catholic Church than the Legion of Christ. And that God is Our Loving Father who can give us a special calling and wants us to find peace in our true “calling”. He may realize that the Legionary spirituality was too Maciel-centered…But I empathize. It is not easy when you see your idols -even “holy” ones- crumble. We are talking about a change in World View, in Religous View and in Church View
The good news is that I believe Legion formation is Christ-centered. Christ has not changed and will not.
He may find a more “stripped down” spirituality, that relies less on human intermediaries, including charismatic saints A:cool: scary thought!
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Bold is mine.

HEY! Wait a minute. 😃 Francis of Assisi was a charismatic saint. 👍

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
Bold is mine.

HEY! Wait a minute. 😃 Francis of Assisi was a charismatic saint. 👍

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Dear JR,
a point well taken:confused:

But Francis was a very “human” saint, from what I know, a man of deep feelings, emotions and compassion; maybe even capable of making mistakes and then repenting. Capable of seeing his own shortcomings and folly. In the 23 years I knew Marcial Maciel I was always struck by his lack of these basic human feelings. You could revere him and fear him and put him on a pedestal. He was always in charge and in control of all his dealings with others.
See my Our Father [Maciel], who art in bed, a Naive and Sentimental Dubliner in the Legion of Christ. at Amazon.com
 
exLegionary said:
Dear JR,
a point well taken:confused:

But Francis was a very “human” saint, from what I know, a man of deep feelings, emotions and compassion; maybe even capable of making mistakes and then repenting. Capable of seeing his own shortcomings and folly. In the 23 years I knew Marcial Maciel I was always struck by his lack of these basic human feelings. You could revere him and fear him and put him on a pedestal. He was always in charge and in control of all his dealings with others.
See my Our Father [Maciel], who art in bed, a Naive and Sentimental Dubliner in the Legion of Christ. at Amazon.com
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I don’t know much about Fr. Marciel and I pray for his soul and pray that he died in a state of grace. The little I know is about his scandals. Which is unfortunate that a man who probably did some good, got over shadowed by his own weaknesses.

That being said, there are many charistmatic leaders: Obama, Hitler, Caesar, Ghandi, B. Mother Teresa, John Paul II, Vincent de Paul, Benedict, Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Siena and so forth.

The difference here is how one uses one’s charisma. I can speak best of our holy Father Francis. Br. Francis of Assisi did not want to found three religious orders. He wanted to bring a sinful society back to the Word. He wanted people to listen to God again, because they had lost this and the Church had given up on them. The Church at the time had adopted a confrontational attitude. If people did not submit, they would be forced by war and interdicts.

Francis used his charism to speak the Word of God. He did not speak of himself. The only time that he speaks of himself is when he talks about what God has done to him, said to him or when he demands the obedience of his brothers. Even when he demands obedience, it is always to the rule. The rule was dictated to him from the Gospels and approved by the Church. In reality, it is not about Francis. Therefore, obedience to Francis equates with obedience to the rule.

I will neve forget the day of my final profession, March 29, 2009. The words of profession are very telling that this is not a cult to Francis of Assisi. What drew me and millions to Francis was that he is a pefect teacher of the Gospel. Our formula for profession goes this way.

“I, Brother Jason Richard of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, vow and promise before almighty God, Mary the most holy Mother of God and ever virgin, all the angels and saint and to you brother, to observe the Holy Gospel as my rule of life, according to the manner of our holy Father Francis, living in obedience, without property and in chastity all the days of my life.”

As you can see from the rite of profession, Francis is the teacher on the manner, he is not the rule or the ruler. He is the spiritual Father. He earns this love and devotion by a proper use of his charisma to engage people in wanting to live the Gospel. The cult, if you can call it that, is about the Gospel, not about Francis. And yet, this is why his sons and daughters always refer back to him and place him on a pedestal of reverance, precisely because he was not a person to be feared. He was a man to be admired for his great love of the Gospel. This love comes across in his life and writings with so much fire, that you want to immitate him, because you want to love the Gospel as he did. The devotion of Francis’ sons and daughters to him, stems not from his control, but from his surrender of control to let the Gospel lead his community.

This is the difference between a charismatic man who is truly holy and one who had another agenda.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Well said, Br. JR!

and I request that the Franciscan Family pray for Archbishop Chaput, OFM, and his work as Visitator to the Legion of Christ in the USA:thumbsup:
 
I would like to draw attention to a source of information and healing for exiting members of the Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi, Carol Gambalvo’s reFOCUS at
refocus.org/

Recovering Former Cultists’ Support Network

Please, do not be offended by this title. It is just that many experiences of exiting Legionaries are similar to members leaving these High Demand and High Control groups and it would also seem that there are similar Post Traumatic Stress Disorder [PTSD, a diagnosis created after studying Vietman Veterans] features and symptoms

Articles by Mrs Carol Giambalvo, a Catholic,🙂 are based on decades of experience assisting people coming out of all kinds of different groups.

Remember what Fr. John Powell, SJ, says: “If you bury your problems alive, they remain alive inside you”
 
Miles Christi is a group worth looking into and the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius.

Information on both of these is available online.

I have heard the founder of the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius speak and I was most impressed.

Though I have never met a member of Miles Christi I know someone who attended one of their introductory retreats (introduction to the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola). The person I know who went to one of these also teaches the Spritiual Exercises and he was quite impressed with what he experienced with them.

in Domino, semper auspice Maria,
 
JReducation said:
They’re not a religious order. But I don’t think that the individual is looking for a religious order eitehr. So this may work.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Thanks for the correction. So, what are they exactly?
 
Tezza said:
Thanks for the correction. So, what are they exactly?
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Their canonical title is a society of apostolic life. Members of societies do not make vows. They make proimises of chastity, poverty and obedience. They have more flexibility in the area of poverty and obedience, compared to religious orders. For example, they can own property, religious orders cannot. They usually have a superior whom they obey, but the membership can change the statutes that govern them so as to fit the needs of the community, the changing times, the apostolate, and so forth. Orders cannot change their rule. That’s why they are called an order. Our life is organized around that rule. We have constitutions that interpret the rule. But the constitutions cannot override the rule. We must obey the rule. We can only interpret it, not change it. A society can change it. In an order we must obey at all times. There is no such thing as “my coscience says”. The only time that disobedience is justified is when we are commanded to sin. It has to be something that the Church calls a sing, not the individual. In a society, obedience is not as strict. The superior will usually sit and discuss where you want to serve, live and what kind of work you want to do. In an order, the superior has the choice of discussing these things with you and can just walk up to you and tell you that you’re going to school to be a teacher and not a priest. He decides what your vocation is. Christ speaks through him, not you. Obedience is absolute.

Societies of apostolic life exist for the sake of serving the people of God. Religious orders do not exist for the sake of serving the people of God, unless that was the intent of the founder. Currently the religious orders that exist in the Church exist for the sanctification of their members. Service, ministry or the apostolate is part of becoming holy. A member of an order performs only those works of the apostolate that help him be a holier person. Therefore, some orders have no active work outside of the religious house. Their apostolate is to pray and do penance for those who do not do it for themselves, such as the Carthusians and Trappists.

Other orders have a blend of separation from the world and active work in the world, such as the Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites, Augustinians. They have their community time of prayer, work, recreation, silence, retreat, mass, meals and study. They also have community apostolates such as parishes, schools, hospitals, street ministry, and so forth.

Societies of apostolic life do not spend as muich time together as orders. The live in the same house. They usually pray together twice a day and have mass together. Then they go out to their apostolate. They make up their schedule as to when they will have silence, do manual work, eat, and play. In an order, there is a schedule that everyone must follow. We all go out to do ministry at the same time of day and we all gather to each, play, pray, silence, meditate, study, sleep, and so forth, at the same time. It’s like living in boot camp for your entire life. But it’s a very loving and fun boot camp. I love it. LOL

If someone is oriented more toward ministry, then a society of apostolic life is for him. If one is oriented more toward penance, silence, discipline and community living, then an order is what is right for him.

Does this help?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Jacie:
I am so sorry for your brother’s pain and suffering. It is truly difficult when these things happen. I hope he can find a good spiritual director or Catholic counselor to help him work through this. I am praying that he will find another home where he can continue his life as a priest. It is wonderful that he has such a supportive family to assist him.

What about the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (SOLT) which is Fr Corapi’s order? There seems to be some very good things going on with that order. It is only one option out there because many orders are doing wonderful things.

Here is their website:
societyofourlady.net/about.html

There are other options for living in a kind of community life. He should talk to priests that he trusts and take some time to make a good choice.

Angel
 
tacmommy said:
Jacie:
I am so sorry for your brother’s pain and suffering. It is truly difficult when these things happen. I hope he can find a good spiritual director or Catholic counselor to help him work through this. I am praying that he will find another home where he can continue his life as a priest. It is wonderful that he has such a supportive family to assist him.

What about the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (SOLT) which is Fr Corapi’s order? There seems to be some very good things going on with that order. It is only one option out there because many orders are doing wonderful things.

Here is their website:
societyofourlady.net/about.html

There are other options for living in a kind of community life. He should talk to priests that he trusts and take some time to make a good choice.

Angel
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I know that we can’t make choices for someone else, especially someon whom we do not know. But I got the impression that Father is very community oriented. The SOLT are not a religious community. They are a society of apostolic life. Community life is not their focus, ministry is. As I explained above, they’re neither an order nor a religious congregation. They are religious though.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Brother: You are right to correct me as I used Order loosely and inaccurately. Thank you for the correction.

However, there is something about SOLT that seems similar to the life of the Legionaries (without some of the unsettling parts) because it does involve priests, consecrated men and women, and lay people as the Legionaries try to do. Perhaps that was important to Father.

I guess one would have to know exactly what it was that drew Father to the Legionaries. That would help him to find something that can be a near fit for him.

I am sure that God has His hand in this and He will be more than willing to help Father be guided to where he will best serve Him.
 
tacmommy said:
Brother: You are right to correct me as I used Order loosely and inaccurately. Thank you for the correction.

However, there is something about SOLT that seems similar to the life of the Legionaries (without some of the unsettling parts) because it does involve priests, consecrated men and women, and lay people as the Legionaries try to do. Perhaps that was important to Father.

I guess one would have to know exactly what it was that drew Father to the Legionaries. That would help him to find something that can be a near fit for him.

I am sure that God has His hand in this and He will be more than willing to help Father be guided to where he will best serve Him.
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I believe that you are correct. And the good thing here is that if we believe the Gospel of John, when Jesus is in the Garden praying for the apostles, then we believe that he does not abandon his priests. This is enough for any priest to breath a sigh of relief. If you’re a priest and you’re looking for your place in the Church, God will not abandon you. As Christ prayed in the Garden, he and his priests are one, just as he and the Father are one.

It is only those priests who lose sight of their union with Christ and who panic who end up getting lost. I believe that it’s important for priests to remember this.

I like your idea of asking oneself what drew one to a particular community. One then can see if that is still there. If it is, then one should stay put and whether the storm. If it’s no longer there, then one should look for it elsewhere. That narrows down the search. That was a good idea. I like it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Dear Charitas,
I know there is a Miles Jesu which is being investigated by the Vatican and well nigh disbanded.
Caritas11 said:
Miles Christi is a group worth looking into and the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius.

Information on both of these is available online.

I have heard the founder of the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius speak and I was most impressed.

Though I have never met a member of Miles Christi I know someone who attended one of their introductory retreats (introduction to the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola). The person I know who went to one of these also teaches the Spritiual Exercises and he was quite impressed with what he experienced with them.

in Domino, semper auspice Maria,
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IMHO

one does not have a vocation to the priesthood and/or to the religious life in general;

one only has a vocation to this particular form of priesthood and/or religious life.

So it is not like you can change trains, or teams, or university, or job, or dress, or hat…and carry on with your life

For example, I wanted to be a Legionary of Christ because I was taken by their lifestyle and the apostolate they presented to me at that time. I did not want to be a diocesan priest, a brother or a Jesuit…I don’t believe I “had a vocation” for something else;). When i bombed out of the Legion of Christ i did not know where to turn.
 
On of the most active, orthodox, and authoritatively-obedient orders is the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, established by Fr. Benedict Groeschele. They work among the poor and homeless mostly, and their efforts are in countering the influence of secular society – through the gentle administration of ‘brotherly love’. Think: Mother Theresa of Calcutta. That pretty much describes them. 🙂
 
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