Legionaries of Christ

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Are they brothers, or full-fledged priests? Would they be open to a priest transferring from the Legionaries? I would love to send my brother for a visit, but right now he can’t imagine himself falling in love with another order the way he felt about the Legionaries. Please pray for him.
One of our priests’ brother in a seminarian for the Legionaries… why do you want your brother to leave?

I know all about the scandal… but if you think about it… God has made many great things come from bad circumstances… (e.g., future leaders coming from sex outside of marriage).

He should really discern leaving the order as a whole before discerning which order he is called to.
 
I would like to compare the Legionaries to the Anglicans. The beautiful priests and laypeople who were either born into the Anglican religion or fell in love with the holy Anglican teachings must have been weeping when they realized that their beautiful religion was being cheapened by the lowering of the rules and admission requirements for priests. They innocently followed a religion that was founded by a very sinful man. They only saw holiness in their parishioners and priests so they figured it didn’t matter that their founder was sinful. Our Holy Father has compassionately offered to bring these Anglican followers of a religion that has gone astray back to the original Catholic church before the sinful founder split away. I hope and pray that Our Holy Father will find a way to bring the Legionaries of Christ and followers of the Legionaries back on track so all of the beautiful people who have followed a very flawed founder will be able to flourish. Even if the priests are required to take some re-training courses it would be worth it to keep these very devout and Christ-loving people as Catholic priests. The name of the order may have to be changed after the adjustments are made but we must not waste the dedication of these priests. :gopray2:
 
I would like to compare the Legionaries to the Anglicans. The beautiful priests and laypeople who were either born into the Anglican religion or fell in love with the holy Anglican teachings must have been weeping when they realized that their beautiful religion was being cheapened by the lowering of the rules and admission requirements for priests. They innocently followed a religion that was founded by a very sinful man. They only saw holiness in their parishioners and priests so they figured it didn’t matter that their founder was sinful. Our Holy Father has compassionately offered to bring these Anglican followers of a religion that has gone astray back to the original Catholic church before the sinful founder split away. I hope and pray that Our Holy Father will find a way to bring the Legionaries of Christ and followers of the Legionaries back on track so all of the beautiful people who have followed a very flawed founder will be able to flourish. Even if the priests are required to take some re-training courses it would be worth it to keep these very devout and Christ-loving people as Catholic priests. The name of the order may have to be changed after the adjustments are made but we must not waste the dedication of these priests. :gopray2:
Where it stands right now, it looks as if the Holy Father may disband the Legion. We have to wait and see what the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated LIfe and Societies of Apostolic Life suggests. The Sacred Congregation has the final voice in the matter and the Holy Father will sign what they decree. No pope has ever gone against them and for good reason. They do what they do very well.

If they decide to disband the Legion those members who want to remain as religious will be directed to other religious communities. Those who want to be priests will be directed to dioceses where they can be incardinated. Once you are ordained a priest, you cannot be thrown into the dustbin. The Church has to find a place for you. Usually you are given a choice. You can join a religous order that accepts priests or you can join a diocese that is looking for priests. If you choose niether, then you will be suspended. A suspension can last as long as five-years and then you are laicized.

But if this came to pass and these men genuinely want to be priests, religious or both, they will have an opportunity to find a place for them. Disbanning an institute is not done over night. You are given time to do what you have to do.

If the Sacred Congregation decides that it can save the Legion by reorganization, then that will happen. Again, the members are given an opportunity to remain, join another group, join a diocese or be suspended. When there is a reorganization, the Sacred Congregation appoints a new government. There is no election. All elections are suspended for a while. The new government has to put everything in its place again.

The greatest challenge here is the loss of confidence with the bishops. If they keep doing what they did in the Archdiocese of Miami, they will not be welcome in any dioces. That will mean that they have to disbanded. They need a home and if bishops don’t want to welcome then, where can they go? They have to help their cause by playing by the rules of the local bishops.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Dear Bro. JR,
i beg to differ on:
Usually you are given a choice. You can join a religous order that accepts priests or you can join a diocese that is looking for priests. If you choose niether, then you will be suspended. A suspension can last as long as five-years and then you are laicized.----

I dont think authorities will be so hard on them or so severe. I have never heard of an :)LC being “suspended”. They should be able to take a leave of absence after a period of discernment. The Legionaries have always been the exception. But little do we realize that they are an exceptionally poorly trained group in the area of discernment. The are rushed through the discernment process and their vocations are very “brittle”.
“Not all the glitters is gold”
 
Dear Bro. JR,
i beg to differ on:
Usually you are given a choice. You can join a religous order that accepts priests or you can join a diocese that is looking for priests. If you choose niether, then you will be suspended. A suspension can last as long as five-years and then you are laicized.----

I dont think authorities will be so hard on them or so severe. I have never heard of an :)LC being “suspended”. They should be able to take a leave of absence after a period of discernment. The Legionaries have always been the exception. But little do we realize that they are an exceptionally poorly trained group in the area of discernment. The are rushed through the discernment process and their vocations are very “brittle”.
“Not all the glitters is gold”
Brother JR was correct in what he said. What you have quoted Br JR saying is what would happen if the Legion of Christ order was dissolved.

The Church would allow those who were in the Legion all possibilities to continue to live the religious life. If a Legion priest did not wish to enter another order or to be incardnated into a diocese then the only option left would be for them to suspended as there would be no legitimate superior over them. They would be suspended and allowed time to discern if they might be called to an order or diocese, this would last for five years and then if still no decision has been made they would be laicized.

We must also not forget that the discernment is on both sides. It is for the other religious orders and dioceses to discern if any former Legion members belong with them.

There may be some who wish to continue elsewhere but those orders/diocese might determine that they are not suitable for them.
 
Someone asked if the Legion is banned anywhere else?

Unless things have changed they are banned in St. Paul-Minneapolis, Los Angeles, Richmond Va, Columbus Ohio, Fort Wayne-South Bend Ind., and Baton Rouge.

It is unfortunate that the LC/RC have not learned from past mistakes, and have placed the Archbishop in the unfortunate position of having to restrict their activities. It is even more surprising to see their disregard for the rules of the archdiocese at a time when they are already undergoing an Apostolic visitation. One would expect them to conduct themselves in the best way possible in light of the Visitation and all. I am praying for a positive outcome for the LC, but this latest news is very discouraging.

imho
 
jacie, I hope you and your brothers have documented your experiences with the Legion of Christ and have passed them on to Archbishop Chaput, in charge of the Apostolic Visitation in the US.

shepherd@archden.org

God bless you and your brothers, you are all in my prayers 🙂
 
Yes, he’s communicated with Archbishop Chaput. I think the Archbishop has a good understanding of what is going on with the Legion.
 
Someone asked if the Legion is banned anywhere else?

Unless things have changed they are banned in St. Paul-Minneapolis, Los Angeles, Richmond Va, Columbus Ohio, Fort Wayne-South Bend Ind., and Baton Rouge.

It is unfortunate that the LC/RC have not learned from past mistakes, and have placed the Archbishop in the unfortunate position of having to restrict their activities. It is even more surprising to see their disregard for the rules of the archdiocese at a time when they are already undergoing an Apostolic visitation. One would expect them to conduct themselves in the best way possible in light of the Visitation and all. I am praying for a positive outcome for the LC, but this latest news is very discouraging.

imho
I think that last Wed they were banned from the Archdiocese of Miami for similar reasons, failure to stay within the boundaries that the Archbishop laid out for them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
jacie, I wanted to bump up this thread to ask how your brother is doing?

I hope he is finding the answers he seeks and is at peace. I have heard that Archbishop Chaput has been very gentle yet honest in his conversations with the LCs. I hope your brother has been able to speak with him.

Please let him know many of us are out here praying for him and his brother priests.
 
Thank you for your concern. He seems to be ok, feeling somewhat like he failed but also looking forward to civilian life. Fr. Groeschel was kind to spend some time with him, and I think it was very helpful and made him feel better about his decision. He has been reconnecting with family, getting to know his nieces and nephews better. He has a few leads on some jobs, and is thinking about whether or not to go back to school. He still has no attraction whatsoever to the Diocesan priesthood. As a matter of fact, I fear that he has lost all attraction right now to any kind of religious or spiritual ministry. I wonder if this is common? He has commented that he is afraid of getting involved and trusting his own judgment in these matters right now, or even more so trusting anyone else. I think he feels completely defrauded by the Legion. They placed so much trust in Fr. Maciel. Still so sad. Please keep them all in your prayers.
 
Thank you for your concern. He seems to be ok, feeling somewhat like he failed but also looking forward to civilian life. Fr. Groeschel was kind to spend some time with him, and I think it was very helpful and made him feel better about his decision. He has been reconnecting with family, getting to know his nieces and nephews better. He has a few leads on some jobs, and is thinking about whether or not to go back to school. He still has no attraction whatsoever to the Diocesan priesthood. As a matter of fact, I fear that he has lost all attraction right now to any kind of religious or spiritual ministry. I wonder if this is common? He has commented that he is afraid of getting involved and trusting his own judgment in these matters right now, or even more so trusting anyone else. I think he feels completely defrauded by the Legion. They placed so much trust in Fr. Maciel. Still so sad. Please keep them all in your prayers.
I will keep your brother in our prayers. Benedict is a wonderful man. I’m glad that he went to see him. What’s your brother’s canonical status right now? Is he on leave of absence from the Legion or he is seeking a dispensation? Maybe he should wait and take the leave for a while. You can extend it up to five years. I would never suggest that anyone extend it that long. But it’s possible.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I think he is going forward with applying for laicization. He doesn’t seem to have any doubts, although I’m not sure that is such a good sign. But he has been dealing with this since last February, when the Legion announced the proof of Maciel’s fathering a daughter. I guess it’s taken me a while to understand how “specialilzed” a vocation to an Order is, and how important the founder is to that Order and the vocations he inspires. I guess it’s not so simple to just transfer to another Order, and the Diocesan life is quite different. I also wonder if he had a vocation at all, because it seems that the Legion in general “put the hard sell” on these young men, and did not have a very good process for truly discerning a vocation. I think they used a certain amount of false “guilt” in keeping these young men in the order. My brother can barely remember the early days, when he initially made his decision to join. I find that rather odd, because I can clearly remember those early decisions as to where to go to college, what to study, and why. It’s all a blur for him.
 
I think he is going forward with applying for laicization.
That may be harder to get than secularization. Pope Benedict is only giving them if have have been involved in a sexual scandal. Otherwise, it can take years. Secularization for religious in simple vows is easier to get, because it’s granted by the superior general, not the Holy See. The LC are in simple vows, not solemn. But if you request secularization, then you have to find a diocese to take you in. Either way that you slice it, it’s very hard on the person.
He doesn’t seem to have any doubts, although I’m not sure that is such a good sign. But he has been dealing with this since last February, when the Legion announced the proof of Maciel’s fathering a daughter.
I pray that he does have doubts. It’s healthier, unless he has already gone through that stage of the discernment process and is on the other side.
I guess it’s taken me a while to understand how “specialilzed” a vocation to an Order is,
Most lay people do not understand this. Because most lay people do not understand the difference between a vocation to religious life and a vocation to the priesthood. They are not the same. When a man or woman has a strong call to the religious life, his entire identity is changed. He becomes a Jesuit, an LC, a Franciscan, Dominican and so forth. It’s not something you do. It’s who you are. You view the world and faith through the eyes of the religioius institutes filters. This is the way that it’s supposed to be.
and how important the founder is to that Order and the vocations he inspires.
The founder does not inspire the vocation. The call comes from Christ. But the founder is the voice of Christ. When the founder falls from grace it throws the entire religious family into chaos. People begin to question if they truly heard Christ or someome else and became confused. They question themselves and their choice.

The founder is also the father or mother of a religious family. This is like discovering that your revered father, whom you love and trust, has been cheating on your mother. The house of glass comes chrashing down on your head. In some communities, more than in others, the devotion to the founder is very strong and fostered. This is the case with the monastic orders and others such as Francisans, Jesuits and Discalced Carmelites. From the moment that you walk in the door you lay down your life in the hands of the founder. I can understand the horror of not having that raft underneath you. I can’t even imagine what we would feel like if someone said that Francis of Assisi was not everything that we believe him to be. I don’t even want to think about it. It sounds like idolatry, but it’s not. It’s really about great love, admiration and leadership. You trust the founder as your guide to Christ.
I guess it’s not so simple to just transfer to another Order,
Unless it’s somethign that you are called to do, it’s very hard to do.
and the Diocesan life is quite different.
Of course it is. A diocesan priest is not a religioius. He is a secular man. He is not a consecrated man nor does he live a consecrated life. When you take away the vows, the constitutions, the community life, the structure, the spirituality, you left with nothing and you’re on your own. Diocesan priests do not have a religious identity or even understand what it feels like to live a life consecrated to Christ. The concept is foreign to them. They undestand it theoretically, but not from experience. They don’t live this way. They don’t have authority. They don’t have poverty. They don’t have chastity. The evangelical counsels bind you to Christ, the Church and your brothers in a very intimate way. As a diocesan priest, you’re on your own to develop your relationship with Christ, the Church and others as you see fit and as it meets your needs, not the needs of othes or according to a tradition. For those who find the intimacy and the discipline of the consecrated life oppressive, it’s a liberating transition. But to those who find the structures and demands of the religious life liberating, becoming a diocesan priest is like being thrown out of an airplane without a parachute. You have no clue what to do, how to get your spiritual life in working order again.
I also wonder if he had a vocation at all, because it seems that the Legion in general “put the hard sell” on these young men, and did not have a very good process for truly discerning a vocation. I think they used a certain amount of false “guilt” in keeping these young men in the order.
I don’t know how they do formation. But I don’t think it works the same way in everyone. I heard an LC priest talking the other day. He seemed very happy and well adjusted. I can’t remember his name. He just put out a book called, “Do we still trust Jesus Christ?”
My brother can barely remember the early days, when he initially made his decision to join. I find that rather odd, because I can clearly remember those early decisions as to where to go to college, what to study, and why. It’s all a blur for him.
Sometimes, part of the grieving process is blocking oiut the painful memories. I think that’s common to everyone: whether you lose your spouse or are a religiousin free fall, etc.

I will keep Father in my prayers.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
And JR, thank you again very much for your thoughtful education in all these matters.
 
Jacie: I have nothing really insightful to say but I wanted to assure you that I am praying for your brother too. I can hear his pain through your message.

Somehow, in all of this, God is there, He was there, and He is going to be there for him and for all of you.

In the end, God doesn’t care whether one order or another survives but He does care that each of us grows closer to Him so that we might all glorify Him forever. He is a jealous lover. But that doesn’t mean we are spared from pain and suffering. Jesus was glorified through His wounds, not His transfiguration – it is our wounds that transform us.

I would highly recommend a book for your brother called “Interior Freedom” by Fr Jacques Philippe (or any other of his books for that matter…) I found it to be life changing after a time of complete desolation.

Much peace and love to you! Jody
 
Jacie: I have nothing really insightful to say but I wanted to assure you that I am praying for your brother too. I can hear his pain through your message.

Somehow, in all of this, God is there, He was there, and He is going to be there for him and for all of you.

**In the end, God doesn’t care whether one order or another survives **but He does care that each of us grows closer to Him so that we might all glorify Him forever. He is a jealous lover. But that doesn’t mean we are spared from pain and suffering. Jesus was glorified through His wounds, not His transfiguration – it is our wounds that transform us.

I would highly recommend a book for your brother called “Interior Freedom” by Fr Jacques Philippe (or any other of his books for that matter…) I found it to be life changing after a time of complete desolation.

Much peace and love to you! Jody
I agree with everything you say. The bolded part is mine, because it needs clarification. I realize that most people who are not religious or are not familiar with religious life do not know this. For centuries the Church has taught and believed that religious families are called forth by the Holy Spirit, not by man. Therefore, their survival is important to God, because they are a gift from God. God does care. In some cases, there have been actual revelations by Christ where he has promised the founders that their particular religious family will sruvive until his second coming. Francis of Assisi had such a revelation confirmed and approved as worthy of belief by five popes. So did Ignatius of Loyola. Franciscans and Jesuits know that we will be around to see Christ’s second coming. Christ has promised it.

But the very fact that religious families are a gift from the Holy Spirit to the Church, makes them valuable and indispensable for God’s plan. When man interferes with their growth, he itnerferes with God’s plan for the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Jacie, I have not read through this whole thread so this may already have been posted but this Order, The Institute of Christ with many young priests seems to have many of the charisms (strong community life, love of Tradition) that first drew your brother to the LCs. They however emphasize that they are not focussed on numbers of men in their seminary (in Tuscany, Italy) but a truly well formed priesthood. I have not encountered them personally just heard of them by reading how Rosalind Moss was very impressed with the St. Francis de Sales Oratory in St. Louis.

institute-christ-king.org/vocations/
 
Jacie, I have not read through this whole thread so this may already have been posted but this Order, The Institute of Christ with many young priests seems to have many of the charisms (strong community life, love of Tradition) that first drew your brother to the LCs. They however emphasize that they are not focussed on numbers of men in their seminary (in Tuscany, Italy) but a truly well formed priesthood. I have not encountered them personally just heard of them by reading how Rosalind Moss was very impressed with the St. Francis de Sales Oratory in St. Louis.

institute-christ-king.org/vocations/
The Institute of Christ the King is a wonderful society. The problem for men who have a religious vocation is that the priests in the Institute are secular. They are not consecrated men. If I understand Jacie’s presentation of her brother, he is attracted to the consecrated life. This can only happen as a religious. Priestly societies do not live consecrated lives. They are priests, not religious. Therefore, they have a mission and a charism. But they lack the evangelical counsels, a rule of life, a spiritual patrimony the common discipline that is part of the consecrated life, the community life, the freedom of religious life, and an identity in the Church that sets them apart from all other secular men.

We have to help men who have a religious calling find religious congregations and religious orders. For these men, being a priest is not enough. They want more than the clerical state. Otherwise, they will find themselves frustrated, becaues the primary place of action for a secular priest is among the laity. Whereas the primary place of action for a consecrated religious is among his brothers. The key word here is brotherhood. These priests who are called to the consecrated life or what we call the religious life are called to live in brotherhood with other men who life the same spiritual life and walk along the same spiritual journey.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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