Legionary Mind-Control?

[Drilling4Truth]

You’ll understand if I’m disinclined to attack a deceased priest who was only accused of misconduct, but never formally charged. The Vatican acted in the best interest of the Church, I have no doubt. This may or may not have included being completely fair to Fr. Marcial Maciel. None of us are privy to the entire story as this was an internal matter for the LC’s and the Vatican. As I said, he obeyed his superiors and died in seclusion.

May he rest in peace.

 

[CoolRich59]

was only accused of misconduct, but never formally charged.

I agree that, with his passing, this subject is somewhat moot.

I am confused, however, by your focus on “formally charged”. I don’t know the forms or procedures of canon law, so I don’t know if there is such a thing as “formal charges”. However, the fact that there was a Vatican investigation sounds pretty formal to me.

 

[Drilling4Truth]

I just remembered, Mother Angelica was investigated by the Vatican not long ago. The story behind it is actually very interesting. Regardless, I still watch EWTN.

 

[CoolRich59]

I just remembered, Mother Angelica was investigated by the Vatican not long ago. The story behind it is actually very interesting. Regardless, I still watch EWTN.

Hmm. Interesting point. However, if you are referring to her dust-up with Cardinal Mahoney, I don’t believe she was, in fact, investigated by the Vatican. My recollection is that the matter was informally mediated by the US Bishops.

Regardless, Mother Angelica wasn’t taken off the air or otherwise censured, so I don’t think your analogy works.

 

[Drilling4Truth]

The investigation of Mother Angelica was conducted by Vatican officials from the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life, according the the biography written by Raymond Arroyo. These officials were investigating the nature of the cloistered lifestyle of Mother Angelica, who did spend a lot of time outside her cloister doing talks and television shows related to EWTN. There were, I think, two or three occasions where these Vatican officials personally visited the monastery in Alabama. The charges were superfluous and no action by the Vatican was ever taken. It should be noted that the Reverend Mother’s age and health were likely taken into consideration.

Fr. Marcial Maciel was investigated for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the faith, led by then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger who appealed for Fr. Marciel to retire and refrain from public ministry, which he did without protest.

Please understand, I do not deny the seriousness of the charges against the founder of the Legion of Christ. However, the charges against Fr. Maciel do not contribute to the OP’s issue of so-called mind control in LC recruitment and retention of members.

 

[leonie]

The Legionary priests I have met are the most intelligent and well formed in their theology compared to any other I have talked with.

It’s hard to believe that men with that kind of intellectual formation can be mind controlled.

One thing in the article caught my attention in particular. The author used the manner that the Legionaries eat as an example of their indoctrination. My sons have been on retreats with Legionaries. And, they were ultra impressed with the sophistication of the priests’ table manners. When they got home, they insisted on eating our regular finger foods with a knife and fork.

I thought that was pretty cool.

 

[1234]

“No formal charges”, “never convicted of any crime”. This was not a civil criminal court proceeding where the charges need to proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The allegations were sufficiently serious and documented that there was an investigation by the Vatican. My recollection was that, due to Fr. Maciel’s age and health, the decision was made to have him step down and to cease any public ministry. It certainly was not a vindication of his conduct.

Good points, CoolRich.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

“No formal charges”, “never convicted of any crime”. This was not a civil criminal court proceeding where the charges need to proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The allegations were sufficiently serious and documented that there was an investigation by the Vatican. My recollection was that, due to Fr. Maciel’s age and health, the decision was made to have him step down and to cease any public ministry. It certainly was not a vindication of his conduct.

While this may be true it still has no place in a thread on the Legion of Christ.

 

[Augustine]

When they got home, they insisted on eating our regular finger foods with a knife and fork.

And, of course, in a country where manners are of little to no importance, eating with a knife and fork is a sure sign of alien influence!

Really, all these testimonies are nothing but resentment by those who had no inclination for that way of life. They usually pick on little matters and take them out of context.

I’ve had a spiritual director who was an Opus Dei priest who I visited at an Opus Dei house, where I got to know a few numeraries. I would laugh at the testimonies at sites like ODAN if they weren’t borderline vile and calumnious.

Such kind of testimony is not uncommon among ex-Catholcis who turn Protestants either, so it wouldn’t surprise me to find the same type of testimony against the LC or the members of Regnum Christi.

They should be treated for what they are: rants.

 

[vocatio]

Great post but I wanted to go a bit further on this part about former members.

We do not know the full reason that a person is a former member from religious life/diocesen formation. We know what this former member will tell us but we will only know that as the religious community/diocese will not give out any information on why someone has left, or has been asked to leave, or has been encouraged to leave.

I always take someone’s accusations with a grain of salt knowing that what they say is not the full truth and I give the benefit of doubt to the religious community/diocese that is in good standing with the Church.

I agree, but be very careful with the line of thinking. This is how the priest scandals mushroomed. I’m one of those “victims”. But I spoke up within a week of the occurrence. I was innocent, but probably did something imprudent. I was naive and had no way of knowing for sure protocall. The priest is no longer has priestly faculties and actually married someone. His actions sort of ruined my life… It happens. After 9 years of struggling, amlessly wondering and joining the military I met and married a Protestant woman who’s family showed more conviction that anyone I’ve ever known. 17 years later my anti-Catholic wife and I became Catholic…can run from truth. If you seek it it will find you. I’m attracted to Opus Dei, but my wife doesn’t like it. But she tends to be more polarized on most everything. I’d prefer to become Eastern Catholic, but I still love my Latin rite. I lovethe mystery of things more than the absolute feeling of knowing. I’m one of the very few orthodox practicing Catholics in my family.

It’s true though. Ex-Catholics make the worst enemies of the state…orin this case…the Church. There are several on CAF.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I agree, but be very careful with the line of thinking. This is how the priest scandals mushroomed. I’m one of those “victims”. But I spoke up within a week of the occurrence. I was innocent, but probably did something imprudent. I was naive and had no way of knowing for sure protocall. The priest is no longer has priestly faculties and actually married someone. His actions sort of ruined my life… It happens. After 9 years of struggling, amlessly wondering and joining the military I met and married a Protestant woman who’s family showed more conviction that anyone I’ve ever known. 17 years later my anti-Catholic wife and I became Catholic…can run from truth. If you seek it it will find you. I’m attracted to Opus Dei, but my wife doesn’t like it. But she tends to be more polarized on most everything. I’d prefer to become Eastern Catholic, but I still love my Latin rite. I lovethe mystery of things more than the absolute feeling of knowing. I’m one of the very few orthodox practicing Catholics in my family.

It’s true though. Ex-Catholics make the worst enemies of the state…orin this case…the Church. There are several on CAF.

Let me say this, my comment was only with former members of religious communities/dioceses and only when it deals with reasons for their leaving.

I do not take this line of thought when faced with accusations of abuse. That is a whole different story and needs to be treated in a different manner.

 

[onetruechurch]

I had my annual silent retreat (spiritual Exercises) 2 weekends ago with a Legionary missionary leading it. Every time I attend mass where a Legionaire consecrates the Eucharist I am amazed what respect they have for the consecrated host. When the priest holds the new eucharist up during the consecration he holds it there for minutes adoring it. Then he very respectfully genuflects and stays in the kneeling position much longer than the average priest. He repeats the respectul gestures when he consecrates the precious blood.
At one of our talks the priest was telling about life in the seminary. Humility is one of the virtues they stress from day one. If a seminarian arises first he is to take the least desirable place at the breakfast table…not the best. He remembered one very cold day when the least desirable seat was near a drafty door. Yes, he chose that seat and felt closer to God for not complaining about his discomfort.

 

[CoolRich59]

At one of our talks the priest was telling about life in the seminary. Humility is one of the virtues they stress from day one. … He remembered one very cold day when the least desirable seat was near a drafty door. Yes, he chose that seat and felt closer to God for not complaining about his discomfort.

Is it humility if you go around bragging about how humble you are?

Just wondering.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I had my annual silent retreat (spiritual Exercises) 2 weekends ago with a Legionary missionary leading it. Every time I attend mass where a Legionaire consecrates the Eucharist I am amazed what respect they have for the consecrated host. When the priest holds the new eucharist up during the consecration he holds it there for minutes adoring it. Then he very respectfully genuflects and stays in the kneeling position much longer than the average priest. He repeats the respectul gestures when he consecrates the precious blood.

I want to caution everyone on this. Just because a priest might not elevate the Eucharist as long as another or might not stay on his knee when he genuflects as long as another does not mean that he is not respectful or does not adore the Eucharist as much as one who does so longer.

 

[vocatio]

That’s right ByzCath,
Some priests may be like me with injuries and do not like to talk about thier injuries to others. Raising my arms for lengthy time periods can hurt. Same with kneeling these days. I have a banged up body from sports and military. So we must be careful not to judge a priest as not haveing as much respect for the Eucharist as the next priest. Always try to assume the most charitable things to our neighbors.

 

[KCT]

I want to caution everyone on this. Just because a priest might not elevate the Eucharist as long as another or might not stay on his knee when he genuflects as long as another does not mean that he is not respectful or does not adore the Eucharist as much as one who does so longer.

Interesting point . . . though I never took the post to mean all others are not reverent. Just because one priest appears reverent, doesn’t mean all others are not. I took it as a positive statement about that one.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Interesting point . . . though I never took the post to mean all others are not reverent. Just because one priest appears reverent, doesn’t mean all others are not. I took it as a positive statement about that one.

As did I.

I just thought to point this out though as I have heard some people criticize a priest for not elevating long enough or not staying on their knee when genuflecting long enough or bowing instead of genuflecting (as pointed out by vocatio there are some physical reasons why one may not genuflect).

 

[onetruechurch]

Thank you KTC. You got the point. By praising what I admire about one person does not mean that I feel other priests are inferior. The reason for this thread was to make a negative judgement about Legionaires. The use of the word “mind-control” is negative. I was putting a positive touch on the subject. If I said that ByzCath was a loving and caring priest or seminarian because he kept us up to date with life in the seminary that doesn’t mean I think Father Groschel is not because he doesn’t post at CA and doesn’t use a computer. I attended mass this morning where the priest was in a wheelchair and could hardly raise the host but his beautiful smile and enthusiasm in his homily showed his love and reverence for the Eucharist.
When the retreat master told about the taking of the least desirable seat he was not bragging. He was giving an example of what we…the retreatants could do. St Thersa gave an example of how to offer up “little things” like enduring insults. I would not say she was bragging when she used her own experiences of learning humility.