Legitimacy of the Early Fathers

[Tom]

RobedWithLight:

Scripture itself states that God always uses human beings to write down and proclaim His message. To say that God writes “better” than any Church father is to create a false dichotomy where none exists ( God “vs.” Church fathers ), and thus completely misses this important point.Gerry

I totally agree.

 

[MariaG]

Using the church fathers with CoC people will not work. You must use Scripture alone. But you can bring up the point of hidden church being contrary to Scripture which tells us not to hide our light under a bushel.

You can tell her/him the Holy Spirit has led you to the truth. How come their leading is true and yours is false?

Mostly, I think what you can do is plant seeds of Doubt. Then do alot of praying that the seeds bear fruit.

This obviously, is just my opinion. (I am a revert/convert. No knowledge of Catholic church, “saved” in fundamental branch of Protestant. Completely Bible alone.)

 

[mercygate]

MariaG:

Using the church fathers with CoC people will not work. You must use Scripture alone. But you can bring up the point of hidden church being contrary to Scripture which tells us not to hide our light under a bushel.

You can tell her/him the Holy Spirit has led you to the truth. How come their leading is true and yours is false?

Mostly, I think what you can do is plant seeds of Doubt. Then do alot of praying that the seeds bear fruit.

This obviously, is just my opinion. (I am a revert/convert. No knowledge of Catholic church, “saved” in fundamental branch of Protestant. Completely Bible alone.)

I second Maria. It is also useful to use their language. When sharing the faith with Evangelicals, I always ask, "Where do Evangelicals get the idea that Catholics don’t accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior? Where do they get the idea that we don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus? Where do they get the idea that we worship Mary? . . . One liners. sometimes that’s all they can digest.

The other day, an Evangelical woman I know told me that after talking to me, she now believes that it is possible that some Catholics might be saved. I haven’t exchanged 500 words with the woman. (BTW, she’s a prize! Full of zeal for the Lord. Deeply committed to the Gospel. But chock-a-block fulla the usual anti-Catholic baloney so many of these people carry around!)

 

[tkelly]

<< Do you mean “By What Authority” by Richard R. Gaillardetz? >>

Naw, he probably means By What Authority by Mark Shea. I have a different evangelical book entitled By What Authority. So there’s at least 3 books with that title.

Phil P
Phil has it right. It’s the book by Mark Shea. Excellent easy read for Catholics and non-Catholics alike on the concept of Tradition and our dependance on the early Church fathers.

TBK

 

[neophyte]

The rock that I foundered on as a Protestant was the question of authority. Here’s what the Bible says about the Apostles:
…

Jesus will always be with them. (Matthew 28: 20)

The Holy Spirit will guide them into all truth, and will be with them always. (John 14:16-17; 15:26; 16:13)

(Implicit in this is the assumption that there is truth that they have not yet been taught. (explicit in John 16:12))

They speak with the authority of God. (Matthew 10:20; Luke 10:1; Luke 10:16)

They will remember everything Jesus taught them. (John 14:16-18, 26; Luke 21:33)

They will never teach erroneous doctrine. (John 17:17-19)

They be one in the doctrine they teach (John 17:20-23)

They have to power to forgive sin. (John 20:21-23)

God will give them whatever they ask for in Christ’s name, and the fruit they bear will remain. (John 15:16)

(‘Fruit’ here would mean the churches they founded, the Christian communities they started as they traveled. Expand on this; the biblical and extra-biblical evidence (Book of Revelations praising the doctrinal faithfulnes of specific churches, writings of the church fathers, agreement in doctine among widely-flung churches, lack of discord regarding key doctrines) indicates that Catholic teaching is faithful to the Apostles, as Jesus in this verse said it would be.)

Peter has a pre-eminent place among the Apostles. (Matthew 16:17-19

…

Once I got this into my head and really grappled with it, and discovered that the earliest Church Fathers, who learned the faith directly from the Apostles, were obviously Catholic, then I knew I had to become a Catholic myself. The alternative was to conclude that Jesus was wrong in John 15:16.