Legitimate Authority and Obedience

[Francesco85]

Hello everyone,

I tried to search for an answer to my question, but I could not find anything that really pertains to the question that is bothering me. If I’m repeating an age-old issue that’s already been addressed here, I apologize.

I know that it’s not permitted to disobey a legitimate authority that is striving for the common good; for instance, paying taxes to a government that would distribute these funds for the good of society. However, what is the point at which a government becomes illegitimate? Any ruling power derives their authority from God, without whom they could do nothing. But power can be abused. When this authority begins to enforce or encourage policies that are inherently immoral and offensive to God, such as homosexuality, atheism, abortion, and uses these funds to indoctrinate citizens through federally funded education, why wouldn’t their authority be deemed illegitimate? It seems a rather odd situation when, in the early Church, martyrs would give their lives in defiance of obligatory state-sponsored paganism rather than participate, but today we are told that it is immoral to withhold funds to be used for atheistic “education” advancing homosexuality and anti-Christian values, and for elective medical procedures such as abortion.

I guess my question boils down to this: at what point would legitimate authority prove itself illegitimate?

This question is really bothering me, and I’d like to finally have it definitively answered.

 

[Broom]

******** you can’t not obey the cops.
Just look at Dorthy Day. She HAD to do what you’re saying for the good of the Catholic Work whatever I forget:thumbsup:

 

[Ron_Conte]

This is a complex question, and a full answer would be too long for a post.
Some points to consider:

1. We are always obligated to obey the moral law. So we may not steal, even if stealing is not illegal. And we may not murder by abortion or euthanasia (or in other ways), even if these acts are legal.
2. We are always obligated to refuse to obey a law that requires us to sin. The eternal moral law is above all human law, and we must obey God before men.
3. An unjust law is not a law.

Saint Augustine: “For it seems to me that an unjust law is no law at all.”

Pope Leo XIII: “For laws are to be obeyed only insofar as they conform with right reason and thus with the eternal law of God.”

Saint Thomas Aquinas: “Human law is law only in virtue of its accordance with right reason: and thus it is manifest that it flows from the eternal law. And in so far as it deviates from right reason it is called an unjust law; in such case it is no law at all, but rather a species of violence.”

1. When a govenment generally guards and protects the common good, then one has a responsibility to support that government. If tax money is used for both good and evil purposes, then the principles of cooperation with evil apply. Material cooperation is sometimes moral, if the good consequences outweigh the bad.
2. When a government no longer guards and protects the common good, it has lost its authority given to it by God through the Church. But the moral law still must be obeyed, including refraining from any acts done with bad intention, or that are intrinsically evil, or which have bad consequences that outweigh the good consequences. To avoid grave bad consequences, one might have to obey a reasonable law, even one made by a very unjust government.

 

[Javl]

Hello everyone,

I tried to search for an answer to my question, but I could not find anything that really pertains to the question that is bothering me. If I’m repeating an age-old issue that’s already been addressed here, I apologize.

I know that it’s not permitted to disobey a legitimate authority that is striving for the common good; for instance, paying taxes to a government that would distribute these funds for the good of society. However, what is the point at which a government becomes illegitimate? Any ruling power derives their authority from God, without whom they could do nothing. But power can be abused. When this authority begins to enforce or encourage policies that are inherently immoral and offensive to God, such as homosexuality, atheism, abortion, and uses these funds to indoctrinate citizens through federally funded education, why wouldn’t their authority be deemed illegitimate? It seems a rather odd situation when, in the early Church, martyrs would give their lives in defiance of obligatory state-sponsored paganism rather than participate, but today we are told that it is immoral to withhold funds to be used for atheistic “education” advancing homosexuality and anti-Christian values, and for elective medical procedures such as abortion.

I guess my question boils down to this: at what point would legitimate authority prove itself illegitimate?

This question is really bothering me, and I’d like to finally have it definitively answered.

I would follow the moral teachings of Christ and rely on my conscience ( as imperfect as it is. )

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[stringbeanduck]

I would follow the moral teachings of Christ and rely on my conscience ( as imperfect as it is. )

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I agree.

Personally I view any government that enacts laws to kill it’s unborn, uphold gay marriage, have tax money pay for abortions, and/or impose their power too much on their citizens as illegitimate.

 

[Bookcat]

Hello everyone,

I tried to search for an answer to my question, but I could not find anything that really pertains to the question that is bothering me. If I’m repeating an age-old issue that’s already been addressed here, I apologize.

I know that it’s not permitted to disobey a legitimate authority that is striving for the common good; for instance, paying taxes to a government that would distribute these funds for the good of society. However, what is the point at which a government becomes illegitimate? Any ruling power derives their authority from God, without whom they could do nothing. But power can be abused. When this authority begins to enforce or encourage policies that are inherently immoral and offensive to God, such as homosexuality, atheism, abortion, and uses these funds to indoctrinate citizens through federally funded education, why wouldn’t their authority be deemed illegitimate? It seems a rather odd situation when, in the early Church, martyrs would give their lives in defiance of obligatory state-sponsored paganism rather than participate, but today we are told that it is immoral to withhold funds to be used for atheistic “education” advancing homosexuality and anti-Christian values, and for elective medical procedures such as abortion.

I guess my question boils down to this: at what point would legitimate authority prove itself illegitimate?

This question is really bothering me, and I’d like to finally have it definitively answered.

In the early Church – they prayed for those in authority and obeyed them, payed taxes etc (Even Jesus had Peter get the coin to pay the tax for he and himself…)…but did not obey unjust laws…would not go against God for the sake of even a King.

“But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.” Acts 5:29

Take a look in the Catechism and see what you find…