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Mary_Henley
Guest
oops…the above name of encyclical should read…
Apostolic Constitution on Fast and Abstinance
Apostolic Constitution on Fast and Abstinance
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Mary_Henley
Guest
Am I missing something here…
The** free will** issue is I choose to do what Christ’s Church commands…it IS binding on all Catholics…regardless of what some disobedient priest or church leaders suggest. Our surest protection is that we…Catholics…have an authority to look to. You see, Christ did not leave us orphans, he left us a Church…a Mother to help us live what He commands.
To be a Catholic you must be in union with Rome…they…your Catholic friends…might like to do some independent research to find out exactly what that entails…you as a good friend might suggest that to them.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Well, happygal, why do we make children say, “please and thank you”?
God is our FATHER. As such, He has the right (and the responsibility) to require His children (though the instruction of the Holy Spirit and the authority of the Church He established under Christ, His Son) to ‘do’ anything He requires of us. Fasting, attendance at Sabbath services, etc. etc. were required of all faithful Jewish people. . .including Christ Himself.
In a perfect world, we would want, and ONLY want, to please God and all our actions would be voluntary. But since, in this imperfect world, our motives are mixed and ‘our spirit is willing but our flesh is weak’, we have rules to remind us what God requires and why.
We’re still ‘free’ to break the rules. Many do. But the greater sin would be in just letting the people roam ‘like sheep without a shepherd’ trusting that somehow by osmosis they’ll ‘want’ to do right–**when they are not told what right even is. **
If you want to go to church and would even if it weren’t sinful to miss, that’s great! We’d like to see more of that. But if you needed a little reminder of how much it means to God–those ‘rules’ come in handy. We aren’t all so far on the road to perfection that we don’t need our Father’s guidance and discipline.
God bless.
God is our FATHER. As such, He has the right (and the responsibility) to require His children (though the instruction of the Holy Spirit and the authority of the Church He established under Christ, His Son) to ‘do’ anything He requires of us. Fasting, attendance at Sabbath services, etc. etc. were required of all faithful Jewish people. . .including Christ Himself.
In a perfect world, we would want, and ONLY want, to please God and all our actions would be voluntary. But since, in this imperfect world, our motives are mixed and ‘our spirit is willing but our flesh is weak’, we have rules to remind us what God requires and why.
We’re still ‘free’ to break the rules. Many do. But the greater sin would be in just letting the people roam ‘like sheep without a shepherd’ trusting that somehow by osmosis they’ll ‘want’ to do right–**when they are not told what right even is. **
If you want to go to church and would even if it weren’t sinful to miss, that’s great! We’d like to see more of that. But if you needed a little reminder of how much it means to God–those ‘rules’ come in handy. We aren’t all so far on the road to perfection that we don’t need our Father’s guidance and discipline.
God bless.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Fasting is mandatory on only two days of the year - Ash Wednesday (today) and Good Friday. Outside of those two days, fasting is optional.
Abstinence from meat is mandatory on all Fridays of the year, and on Ash Wednesday. The rest of the time, it is optional.
In some parts of the world, we are allowed to substitute an alternate penance on certain Fridays of the year, if we so choose - but if we choose not to abstain from meat on those particular Fridays, then we are required to do a different penance, instead.
On days other than Friday, penances and abstinence from meat are optional.
Perhaps your friends are just confused about when things are optional, and when they are required.
By the way, we are also required to fast for at least one hour before receiving Holy Communion, as well.
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jmcrae
Guest
Because we’re not alone in this world. Christ didn’t have to die on the Cross, either - He hadn’t done anything wrong. He was completely without sin, and was not guilty of the crimes they had convicted him of.
But, He did it for our sake. We can be like Him, and do penance on behalf of others.
I feel quite certain that the nuns who pray the various Acts of Reparation for Sins are guilty of any of the sins listed (foul language, gossip, anger, lust, etc.) - but they pray these prayers of penance on behalf of those who do commit these sins, because they know that it would probably never even occur to these people to pray these prayers for themselves.
By doing penance even when we don’t need to do so for ourselves, we help others - including people who aren’t even aware that they even need any help.
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Superstar905
Guest
Thanks, and true, very ironic.The universal norm of the Catholic Church Roman/Latin rite is to abstain from meat on ALL Fridays, and on Ash Wednesday, as well as to fast (one meal plus 2 smaller ‘bites’ that do not add up to one full meal) on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
In the U.S., the Bishops were permitted an indult that required all Catholics of certain ages (14 and up for abstinence, 18-59 for fasting) to fast and abstain on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, and to abstain from meat on Lenten Fridays, AND they’ strongly encouraged’ all Catholics to either continue abstention from meat on the non-Lenten Fridays for a penitential practice or to pick another penitential practice. All Fridays are considered ‘penitential’ days in memory of Our Lord’s suffering and death on Good Friday.
Why? Even if in AD 2007 meat is no longer a ‘luxury’ for some in some places, the idea and rationale behind ‘giving up’ as a penance a thing which is ‘good’ in itself remains. You like seafood and don’t eat meat? Fine. You’ll have no problem observing the ‘letter of the law’. If you want to go further, pick a penance and observe that in addition to already following the ‘minimum’ guidelines, if you wish to please God further.
We have already ‘changed’ the fasting requirements a lot, ostensibly to make it ‘easier’ for people (used to be not only was there no meat for Friday, there was no meat on Wednesdays, or Saturdays either); before that, no meat at ALL during the long lenten fast, and there were other fasts (pre Christmas, from November 15 on) as well. Before that, not only no meat but no eggs, butter, milk, cheese. . . In a culture where the agricultural economy was barely self-sufficient for a family, imagine your daily meal being pottage (vegetables, mostly old and stale at that by February or March, cooked in water), thick barley bread, (just barley, yeast and water, nothing to ‘top it’), beer (water being often unsafe to drink unless boiled!) or thin barely fermented wine, perhaps a few stored nuts or dried fruits. . .
Isn’t it ironic that now that life is much more luxurious that we want instead to make fasts ‘harder’ by adding or substituting things, feeling we don’t suffer enough since we have lots of substitutes for meat today??
Hey, I’m all for stricter fasts myself.
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Superstar905
Guest
Heyyyy, Blast from the not too distant past. I’ll email you and catch up!Superstar,
Hey there buddy! Long time, no speak!
Perhaps a referendum to change to eating only Liver, since for many, that would trully be a sacrifice.
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Superstar905
Guest
Ahh, thanks for this.
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jmcrae
Guest
You’re most welcome!! 
Of course, I meant to say that the nuns are not guilty - I’m sure you figured that out, though.
Of course, I meant to say that the nuns are not guilty - I’m sure you figured that out, though.
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Superstar905
Guest
So there are only 2 days a year we are required to do so? ah, not such a big deal really. I was actually a little confused also about when abstinence is required, or optional.
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JamieMc
Guest
So why isn’t fish considered meat?
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jmcrae
Guest
Because it’s not “flesh meat” - that is, warm-blooded. I don’t really know the reasoning behind it, though.
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jmcrae
Guest
This changes according to Diocese and country. The best person to ask what the regulations are in your area would be your Bishop. In my experience, Bishops are always very happy to explain this sort of thing to people.
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happygal
Guest
Well i would rather said not everyone are devoted Catholic to carry on the fast!!!
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Zirconia
Guest
Not outdated at all.
I am intolerant to gluten, which means no wheat. Or commercially prepared bread, pasta, cake, cookies, or fried foods. Ever, unless I want to get sick. So giving up any other foods for Lent is a sacrifice.
If you think fish is food for lavish dining, you can always give that up as well as meat. Or you can practice Orthodox-style fasting (no meat, fish, dairy, wine, or oil) for Lent.
Zirconia
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jmcrae
Guest
And you’d be right. But the Church isn’t about punishing people for being wrong; it’s about guiding people to become more holy. Christians are supposed to be holy people, and people who are learning how to become more holy.
If they don’t want to become more holy, there’s not really much anybody can do for them, really.
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wjp984
Guest
Sometimes I wonder myself if it is a sacrifice to abstain from meat. It is in some ways since I want that burger but some of the most expensive meals I treat myself to are during Lent. I rarely get a chance to eat lobster or good fish since I don’t want to spend the money. However, a Friday in Lent always seems like a good time to do it since no meat is allowed.
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jmcrae
Guest
The spirit of fasting and penance is to be observed on all Fridays of the year - including those on which we do physical fasting and penance, as well as those Fridays when we can choose to do more spiritual penances - that would seem to go without saying, I think.
I don’t want to comment one way or the other on your particular practice of eating expensive seafood by way of “penance” because I have no way of knowing your situation, but in general, it seems to me that this kind of thing would be a contradiction of the spirit of penance and fasting that we are meant to be observing on these days.
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