Leo XIII Decried Socialism, 150 Years Later The USCCB Embraces It

[tpw]

Those screaming socialism:

a) haven’t the faintest idea what socialism really is
b) lack historical perspective
c) don’t seem to ask why there is increasing economic disparity in the U.S. where 1% of the population owns 60% of the nation’s wealth
d) spend too much time watching befogged FOX / Limbaugh commentators who fit into categories a, b and c
e) all of the above

 

[Gift_from_God]

Those screaming socialism:

a) haven’t the faintest idea what socialism really is
b) lack historical perspective
c) don’t seem to ask why there is increasing economic disparity in the U.S. where 1% of the population owns 60% of the nation’s wealth
d) spend too much time watching befogged FOX / Limbaugh commentators who fit into categories a, b and c
e) all of the above

Amen. You kind of sound like a good ol’ hockey loving, doughnut eating Canadian saying that.

 

[Anrando]

I would most humbly submit that the government taking 50+% of my income at gunpoint and giving it to someone else is NOT charity, nor is it “justice”.

We are picking nits about the definition of socialism without acknowledging that if the government takes the profits of ones labor they own YOU, the ultimate means of production. I have been a slave to the government for half of my working life. Perhaps this is not “socialism” according to some textbook, but please explain to me exactly what type of economic system it is.

I do not require a legislated “social conscience” forced on me by those that consider themselves my better. I am NOT referencing the Bishops here because I do indeed need their guidance, I am referring to the secular government.

I do not feel that my religion requires that I work hard so that the government can steal my money in the name of social justice. Quite frankly the people making the argument in support of such schemes seem to be either wealthy, read Kerry, Pelosi, Boxer et. al. here, or not working at all, read student here. I just don’t see a lot of people just hanging on financially calling for higher taxes to buy votes for either political party. I have always lived an upper-LOW class life style, and have made charitable contribution according to my own conscience. I have never gone hungry, but I have never enjoyed many luxuries either, and that is fine with me.

Is it really the business of the Bishops to support government programs that will require me to pay even more of my labors toward this mythical “perfectly just” world?

I think that the Bishops have every duty to encourage the faithful to help the poor and to support those in need. That is after all our commission as members of the faith. However; I believe that supporting any government’s forced theft of my labor to achieve some social planner’s idea of utopia is far outside of their explicit or implied responsibilities to the Church and it’s members.

An odd first post here I think, and you may dismiss me out of hand as a newbie, but as someone who has dutifully paid taxes for 45 years now I was just moved to express my frustration.

When in the minds of the social justice crowd will I have paid my “share”. According to B. Obama Sr. the government should have the right to take 100% of my income, as long as I receive benefits of equal value. But why should I give up the right to decide my own life so that some social engineer can decide how I should live, what I can buy, where I should work etc. as part of some scheme to ensure that all are “equal”.

I just don’t get it. Jesus says to sell everything and follow him. That would be a free will decision of mine to make. I missed the part where Jesus said to give everything the Caesar and follow him.

Regards,
Bill Unland

 

[ab75]

I agree. Just what type of response is it of a Christian to deny help to ANYONE who has lost his or her job during a severe recession and is having trouble finding another one? What would we rather have the person do - foreclose on their home and put the families out on the street? Or help them with food, clothing, shelter? Oh - but that sounds like the corporal works of mercy. Excuuuuuuse me! Whether it comes from the government or a charity, we cannot afford to leave even one citizen wanting. If that’s interpreted as socialism, so be it.

I tend to agree with this that we need to help. I do think the flip side is the more we place the help in government, and not charitable organizations the more power consolidated in a potentially corrupt government, and the less obligation individuals feel to help.

It’s a tight rope we are walking, and we all should be praying for the answers on how we can individually and collectively help. I’d be careful of judging those Church leaders (or members, or non-members) that may happen to be more liberal or conservative than us on many issues.

 

[Harri_Laaksonen]

Dear Father:

I am only interested in the means they use to get there. If you want to help poor workers, abolish the minimum wage. If you want to protect citizens from violent crime, abolish the gun control laws. If you want to increase wealth and employment, abolish taxes.

.

I hope that this not how most Catholics feel. If this is the society one wants, Somalia, would fit the bill quite well.

Government may not be the best way to help people, but most of us who are getting by on minimal work offered by private and public clients, need the assistance we get. It is not that we are not willing to work, but sometimes the market knows that we are worth a lot more than they are willing to pay and honestly will not insult us by offering minimum wage. I don’t like living on unemployment benefits to supplement my income, and it is only because of a rent subsidy that I have a small apartment rather than living on the street or a hostel. BTW, I am 63 years old and have 3 Master’s degrees, I lived for several years getting more and more depressed because society kept telling me that I had no value in the U.S. and Canada, so rather than commit suicide I took the chance and returned to Finland. I may not be doing well, but I am alive and healthy, and loving God.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Amen. You kind of sound like a good ol’ hockey loving, doughnut eating Canadian saying that.

I agree with the post and I’m a cheese eating, beach going Californian.

 

[portarica]

They have called for universal health care and amnesty. Name one conservative thought that has come out of that institution. By the way I would certainly like the money stolen from me on the aforementioned Ponzi schemes, to be returned and the programs cancelled. Very few people call me a socialist.

And what shape do you think the US economy would be in if those on social security were not spending that money ? And would the unemployed be content to sit on the sidelines with no prospect of jobs if they weren’t receiving some type of assistance?

There are some benefits to having a docile elderly population and an unsatisfied but somewhat quiet, non working formerly middle class that have been displaced by a shift in manufacturing jobs from the US to China.

Peace

 

[portarica]

I would most humbly submit that the government taking 50+% of my income at gunpoint and giving it to someone else is NOT charity, nor is it “justice”.

We are picking nits about the definition of socialism without acknowledging that if the government takes the profits of ones labor they own YOU, the ultimate means of production. I have been a slave to the government for half of my working life. Perhaps this is not “socialism” according to some textbook, but please explain to me exactly what type of economic system it is.

I do not require a legislated “social conscience” forced on me by those that consider themselves my better. I am NOT referencing the Bishops here because I do indeed need their guidance, I am referring to the secular government.

I do not feel that my religion requires that I work hard so that the government can steal my money in the name of social justice. Quite frankly the people making the argument in support of such schemes seem to be either wealthy, read Kerry, Pelosi, Boxer et. al. here, or not working at all, read student here. I just don’t see a lot of people just hanging on financially calling for higher taxes to buy votes for either political party. I have always lived an upper-LOW class life style, and have made charitable contribution according to my own conscience. I have never gone hungry, but I have never enjoyed many luxuries either, and that is fine with me.

Is it really the business of the Bishops to support government programs that will require me to pay even more of my labors toward this mythical “perfectly just” world?

I think that the Bishops have every duty to encourage the faithful to help the poor and to support those in need. That is after all our commission as members of the faith. However; I believe that supporting any government’s forced theft of my labor to achieve some social planner’s idea of utopia is far outside of their explicit or implied responsibilities to the Church and it’s members.

An odd first post here I think, and you may dismiss me out of hand as a newbie, but as someone who has dutifully paid taxes for 45 years now I was just moved to express my frustration.

When in the minds of the social justice crowd will I have paid my “share”. According to B. Obama Sr. the government should have the right to take 100% of my income, as long as I receive benefits of equal value. But why should I give up the right to decide my own life so that some social engineer can decide how I should live, what I can buy, where I should work etc. as part of some scheme to ensure that all are “equal”.

I just don’t get it. Jesus says to sell everything and follow him. That would be a free will decision of mine to make. I missed the part where Jesus said to give everything the Caesar and follow him.

Regards,
Bill Unland

So I guess Obama reducing taxes for the those making less than 200K doesn’t apply to you, God bless you. And since you have been paying taxes for 45 years you are probably close to social security time and are about to decline that socialist money on grounds of principal .And you must be all riled up about how 10% of you income goes to the defence department for fighting wars, after all we spend about as much money on defense as the rest of the world combined.

And since your taxes are so high it means you do not derive much income from savings or investments , you are so fortunate to be making such a high earned income as opposed to all those carpet baggers who pay so little taxes because they make most of their money from capital gains and investments.

You have a right to be so upset , probably worried about how you are going to come up with the additional 3% Obama wants to get by letting Bushes tax cuts for those making more than $200,000.00 expire.

Best wishes with your tax struggles.

Peace