Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah

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I hope you’re not implying that because Songs isn’t frequently read at Mas that it is somehow inappropriate? I would say that every blessed God-breathed word of Scripture is fit to be read aloud at Mass. Why not?

As for glorifying adultery - the first quote speaks to the relationship being destructive, as Delilah destroyed Samson by rendering him powerless when she cut his hair. Hence the reference. Not glorifying it - quite the opposite.

The second quote is most likely not about adultery at all - there is no direct mention of such there, and the description is in stark contrast to his earlier description of actual adultery. The first adulterous relationship is ‘you’ and ‘her’ whereas the other is ‘I’ and ‘you’. So likely two entirely different relationships.
 
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LilyM said:
I hope you’re not implying that because Songs isn’t frequently read at Mas that it is somehow inappropriate?
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It isn’t read at Mass at all, except for the 7 verses that are an option for weddings.

The book is very often misunderstood. People think it is somehow “racy”. The USCCB provides us a good intro here: http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Song of Songs&ch=

And summarizes it thusly:

Thus the Song has been read as a sublime portrayal and praise of this mutual love of the Lord and his people. Christian writers have interpreted the Song in terms of the union between Christ and the Church and of the union between Christ and the individual soul, particularly in the writings of Origen and St. Bernard.
 
I think it’s a beautifully written song, but I would agree that it is entirely inappropriate for Mass. I can only speculate as to what Leonard Cohen had on his mind when he wrote it, because as far as I know he never really explained it. I imagine the song as being about someone whose faith has been damaged by a love that ended badly. Yet, throughout the song, and especially through the chorus, I get the sense that the speaker is still hoping to find answers.

As such, I can relate to the song, having been through times where my faith was broken, but where I still hoped to somehow find it again. I could be projecting my own experiences on the song.

I have a similar feeling about “Losing My Religion” by REM - it is a song about someone who is losing his faith but seems to be crying for help.
 
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There was a Christmas version written by a group called Cloverton:

Some might object to re-writing a secular song for a religious purpose, but if we go that route, we would have to stop singing the version of Schubert’s “Ave Maria” sometimes used in the Mass.
 
bquinnan said:
I have a similar feeling about “Losing My Religion” by REM - it is a song about someone who is losing his faith but seems to be crying for help.
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Interestingly enough, that song is also meant to be about a woman.
The title is a Southern expression meaning “At my wit’s end,” as if things were going so bad you could lose your faith in God. If you were “Losing your religion” over a person, It could also mean losing faith in that person. >>
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Stipe told Rolling Stone magazine: “I wanted to write a classic obsession song. So I did.” In addition to calling it a song about “obsession,” Stipe has also referred to it as a song about “unrequited love” in which all actions and words of the object of your obsession are scrubbed for hidden meaning and hopeful signs. The lyrics pretty clearly support this: “I thought that I heard you laughing, I thought that I heard you sing. I think I thought I saw you try.”
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That said, I didn’t know that until much later after listening to a cover of it. Ironically enough though, I actually find the lyrics uplifting to a degree. When viewing it through the “I’m losing my faith in God” lens I always felt the singer still had a “But I’m still hanging on” kind of vibe. Like even though he couldn’t even have confidence that God even existed, he was still going on. (Thing like “trying to keep an eye on you” for example.)

Here’s the cover I listened to if anyone’s curious.
 
‘Hallelujah’ is just a beautiful gong about a not-so-beautiful subject. It has mixed biblical sources, mixing the stories of ‘Davis and Bathsheba’ with ‘Samson and Delilah’. It can be edited to fit in a spiritual setting, but it’s clear that the author meant it at a very earthly level. Out of respect for both sides, I don’t like to see it over edited (or, over-explained). I’m a big Leonard Cohen fan, and I’d rather see it used in the context in which it was written.
 
I highly recommend the versions by the Canadian Tenors and Il Divo.
 
I am Jewish, not Christian, but even though I love “Hallelujah” I don’t think it’s appropriate for a Catholic Christmas recital. (This is just my opinion as a singer, I’m not trying to say your music director is wrong).

Parts of the song sound a little anti-Christian to me, though the overall message conveyed is, I think, Christian, or even Jewish.

Personally, I think something like “In the Bleak Midwinter” would be better if one is looking for non-traditional Christmas music. In no way do I think “Hallelujah” is a Christmas song. I also like “Coventry Carol” for something not so traditional. There are plenty of lovely Renaissance Christmas songs, but “Hallelujah” is gorgeous when it’s sung with great feeling.
 
The song has so many verses, those two can be left out with no problem. I almost never sing them when I sing this song in a show or recital. They are left out here. And no, I’m not Johnny Mathis, though I often rehearse with him since he’s my neighbor. John never uses a computer.

 
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And this version includes the lyrics that are not so great for mass, but Renee sings it beautifully:

 
It is a nice performance piece, it is simply not fitting for Mass.

As I have said 11 times at least, I am not somehow anti-Cohen or anti-secular music. I Cohen is in my regular play list.
 
Hallelujah was played at two Catholic weddings I attended this year.
I felt slightly uncomfortable, but then, the couples specifically wanted it to be played on their special day.
In the end, they made up for it in both ceremonies with Holy God, we praise thy name (Großer Gott, wir loben Dich - i.e. the German original). Is the latter also a popular song in the US (in mass/ for weddings)?
 
Maybe - they’ll play it - immediately after the NFL Superbowl game is done - for the victory team !
The players can all march around the field - to that - lol !
 
No. Weddings are the same as other liturgy, secular music is not permitted. (and the range of tacky to have a song where the most famous verse is about adultery/fornication at a wedding is something to ponder).
 
I agree. Still, it happens all the time. Actually, Hallelujah was part of most of the Catholic wedding ceremonies I attended. People here do not speak English sufficiently well to understand the actual lyrics. This may explain something.
 
Well, this isn’t a Catholic Christmas recital. I don’t dance at a specifically Christian dance studio although the teacher leans towards that in some of her song choices for some recitals at a previous studio.
It’s called “The Not So Nutcracker” and I don’t think the recital is “supposed” to have anything to do with God because there’s more than likely some non-Christians who dance there.
 
Just as a general reply to everyone: the other day I was thinking about the lyrics and how it’s written from the viewpoint of a doubter and someone who is in a situation of “unrequited love” as Cohen said.

I though how yes, he uses Biblical stories but it actually can relate to his own life without even being rude to Christianity.

In the first verse it struck me as he’s trying to find some way to please this woman and he points to how God was pleased with David’s song but she doesn’t like that or perhaps she doesn’t like what Cohen can offer as he’s a musician.
Perhaps he is baffled like a David, in awe of this woman instead of in awe of God.

Then, in the second verse (at least in the version we’re doing) he, like David, is awestruck by the beauty of this woman (Bathsheba). Samson was hurt and broken by Delilah and perhaps Cohen was hurt by this woman who didn’t love him back. But still, he praised her because of his love for her.

Finally with his line, “maybe there’s a God above…”, in his doubt, he doesn’t know. All he’s learned from love is this horrible cycle of him trying to love this woman and her not loving him back. And for him, love isn’t a cry at night, which could be taken sexually or perhaps a child crying for his mother, a joyous cry of someone talking with someone else, etc. It’s also not someone who’s seen the light because he doesn’t know if there is a God and he hasn’t felt the love of God or the love of a good relationship.
Instead, His is a cold and broken Hallelujah, perhaps his continuous praise of this woman who doesn’t love him back.

It’s possible my idea of this song is really far off but considering that Cohen himself changed the lyrics constantly throughout the years and at different performances, I don’t know if we will ever know the actual truth of this song.
 
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I love the song, and even though I’m not Christian, I can see it’s not fitting for mas. Probably not the services of any church.

I agree, it’s fine for a secular piece.

I think Cohen wanted to say that every praise of G-d does not have to be perfect, That’s laudable, but I think some people at mass would be shocked at the lyrics. Even the tamer ones can be ambiguous.
 
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Footprints said:
Well, this isn’t a Catholic Christmas recital. I don’t dance at a specifically Christian dance studio although the teacher leans towards that in some of her song choices for some recitals at a previous studio.
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I’m sorry, it would work then. It can be beautiful to dance to, as you no doubt know better than I. I’m a good singer but a terrible dancer.

Hope you have a wonderful program and glad it’s not “The Nutcracker” again!
 
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