Leonie, the difficult child

[JimG]

Most people have heard of St. Therese of Lisieux. Probably fewer have heard of her sister Leonie, who seemed often to be the forgotten one of the Martin family. But after reading this short article written by Elise Ehrhard, I think that maybe Leonie’s story might resonate more readily with many people today, just because her difficulties seem more applicable to us. She eventually became a nun of the Vistandine order. Her cause for sainthood is now moving forward.

From the article:

“Leonie was socially awkward. When she tried to play with other children, her play was often disruptive and out-of-place. She acted unruly in traditional classrooms and had to be educated at home. She bonded with a little sister with whom she shared a room, but that girl died at the age of 5 (Leonie was 6 at the time). Seeing how different she was from her siblings, Leonie once expressed the fear that she had been exchanged at birth for another baby.”

Full article is here.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

That’s wonderful, thank you for the post. Years ago when I read my mom’s copy of Autobiography of St. Therese, I noticed that Leonie was treated differently from the others in the story and also looked different in the picture of all the sisters in their habits. I wondered what happened with her but it was not at all clear.

I’m glad people have recognized she may very well have been autistic because just from reading about her that’s what she sounds like. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if she became a saint too after all her trials.

 

[cavanlass]

thank you

 

[patricius79]

Most people have heard of St. Therese of Lisieux. Probably fewer have heard of her sister Leonie, who seemed often to be the forgotten one of the Martin family. But after reading this short article written by Elise Ehrhard, I think that maybe Leonie’s story might resonate more readily with many people today, just because her difficulties seem more applicable to us. She eventually became a nun of the Vistandine order. Her cause for sainthood is now moving forward.

From the article:

“Leonie was socially awkward. When she tried to play with other children, her play was often disruptive and out-of-place. She acted unruly in traditional classrooms and had to be educated at home. She bonded with a little sister with whom she shared a room, but that girl died at the age of 5 (Leonie was 6 at the time). Seeing how different she was from her siblings, Leonie once expressed the fear that she had been exchanged at birth for another baby.”

Full article is here.

Thanks for posting this. I guess this explains a documentary I saw which seemed to portrary Leonie as a blacksheep.

But I saw another documentary–or maybe I read it–that Leonie adopted her sister St. Therese’s little way.

 

[psalm90]

Most people have heard of St. Therese of Lisieux. Probably fewer have heard of her sister Leonie, who seemed often to be the forgotten one of the Martin family. But after reading this short article written by Elise Ehrhard, I think that maybe Leonie’s story might resonate more readily with many people today, just because her difficulties seem more applicable to us. She eventually became a nun of the Vistandine order. Her cause for sainthood is now moving forward.

From the article:

“Leonie was socially awkward. When she tried to play with other children, her play was often disruptive and out-of-place. She acted unruly in traditional classrooms and had to be educated at home. She bonded with a little sister with whom she shared a room, but that girl died at the age of 5 (Leonie was 6 at the time). Seeing how different she was from her siblings, Leonie once expressed the fear that she had been exchanged at birth for another baby.”

Full article is here.

What? another nun being pushed forward for canonization? The % of saints who are bishops, priests, nuns, etc. seems very high. I’m rather irritated by the canonization process – it costs so much money to do an investigation. It seems to generate a cottage industry in itself, and then if someone is canonized, there’s the whole thing of holy cards, statues, pilgrimages, etc. There’s too much money involved for me to be respectful of it. Canonization neither “pushes” anybody into heaven nor, I imagine, does it give that person any more of an eternal reward.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

What? another nun being pushed forward for canonization? The % of saints who are bishops, priests, nuns, etc. seems very high. I’m rather irritated by the canonization process – it costs so much money to do an investigation. It seems to generate a cottage industry in itself, and then if someone is canonized, there’s the whole thing of holy cards, statues, pilgrimages, etc. There’s too much money involved for me to be respectful of it. Canonization neither “pushes” anybody into heaven nor, I imagine, does it give that person any more of an eternal reward.

The family of St. Therese was extraordinarily holy, and I am sure many people could relate to a saint who was considered a bit of a misfit when she was on earth. You are under no obligation to have anything to do with the holy cards, statues, pilgrimages, etc.; it will not cost you any money whether she is or is not canonized; so why do you feel a need to express negative thoughts about something that really does not affect you?

 

[JimG]

What? another nun being pushed forward for canonization? The % of saints who are bishops, priests, nuns, etc. seems very high. I’m rather irritated by the canonization process – it costs so much money to do an investigation. It seems to generate a cottage industry in itself, and then if someone is canonized, there’s the whole thing of holy cards, statues, pilgrimages, etc. There’s too much money involved for me to be respectful of it. Canonization neither “pushes” anybody into heaven nor, I imagine, does it give that person any more of an eternal reward.

Leonie might agree with you. Quoting from the original article:

“Leonie would be amused by the attention. Once, when a priest knocked at the door of her convent and inquired if he could meet the Martin sister who lived there, she quipped “But, Father, I can assure you that you will lose nothing by not seeing her; it’s hardly worth the trouble.”

But her cause for canonization is in the early stages. Her sister Therese has been canonized, and just recently I believe the parents of the Martin sisters were also canonized. So Leonie would be the fourth.

Causes for sainthood are usually originated at the local level, and a local priest is appointed as the person in charge of gathering evidence and advocating the cause. The only one with which I am personally familiar is the cause for Fr. Emil Kapaun, who died in a North Korean POW camp, and whose cause is being advocated in my own diocese. No doubt Fr. Kapaun would also consider it over the top. But saints are not declared saints for their own benefit but for ours.

 

[psalm90]

The family of St. Therese was extraordinarily holy, and I am sure many people could relate to a saint who was considered a bit of a misfit when she was on earth. You are under no obligation to have anything to do with the holy cards, statues, pilgrimages, etc.; it will not cost you any money whether she is or is not canonized; so why do you feel a need to express negative thoughts about something that really does not affect you?

Well, that’s a great question and I’m glad I have a chance to respond to it.

As I said, there’s a lot of money involved just to get somebody canonized, i.e. to be declared a saint INFALLIBLY. Can we really be so sure? Now, where would a religious order get the money to push this along? and, would not the money be used better for evangelization purposes? and, generally, where else do you have a mobilized fund-raising organization for the “cause” of canonization? Money changing hands to garner the “honors of the altar” is very un-Christ like.

Isn’t there a few verses about the apostles arguing who would sit at Christ’s right and left hands in heaven, with Christ basically telling them not to worry about it? Well, there you go.

Can’t you see the temptation to exploit a person’s reputation for monetary gain? the pilgrims travelling to the “shrine” and the sale of “relics” – to me it’s very obvious that people are profiting from the whole thing, this is beyond dispute.

And, it bothers me and makes a difference to me, because this is MY Church, too.

I suspect that this all starts in Church history very early, with the justifiable recollection of the sacrifices of the martyrs. And THEIR memory is preserved in liturgical prayers – and , locally, the priests tend to use the shortest Eucharistic prayers at Mass and avoid those enumerations of those early martyrs.

Now, way down the list of my objections is the difficulty I have in pronouncing Lisieux, which is only compounded by the fact that I can’t guess how to pronounce Leonie.

 

[JimG]

Well, that’s a great question and I’m glad I have a chance to respond to it.

As I said, there’s a lot of money involved just to get somebody canonized, i.e. to be declared a saint INFALLIBLY. Can we really be so sure? Now, where would a religious order get the money to push this along? and, would not the money be used better for evangelization purposes? and, generally, where else do you have a mobilized fund-raising organization for the “cause” of canonization? Money changing hands to garner the “honors of the altar” is very un-Christ like.

Isn’t there a few verses about the apostles arguing who would sit at Christ’s right and left hands in heaven, with Christ basically telling them not to worry about it? Well, there you go.

Can’t you see the temptation to exploit a person’s reputation for monetary gain? the pilgrims travelling to the “shrine” and the sale of “relics” – to me it’s very obvious that people are profiting from the whole thing, this is beyond dispute.

And, it bothers me and makes a difference to me, because this is MY Church, too.

I suspect that this all starts in Church history very early, with the justifiable recollection of the sacrifices of the martyrs. And THEIR memory is preserved in liturgical prayers – and , locally, the priests tend to use the shortest Eucharistic prayers at Mass and avoid those enumerations of those early martyrs.

Now, way down the list of my objections is the difficulty I have in pronouncing Lisieux, which is only compounded by the fact that I can’t guess how to pronounce Leonie.

Ah, so it’s another variation on the theme of, well, we could have spent the time and energy and money on evangelization, or the poor, or etc. It’s a similar argument for not building beautiful churches.

Nevertheless, I like having a lot of saints, and I like knowing about them. It’s like being in a big family and knowing all your brothers and sisters. (By the way, look up Fr. Kapaun. I don’t think the diocese is spending a lot of money on his cause. It’s amazing how many people just come forward with their stories and documents.)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I wasn’t aware that canonization cost a great deal of money. Also, a lot of saints have a large groundswell of popular support for the canonization - it’s not really necessary to go around campaigning for support. So many people love St. Therese, it would not be a stretch for them to love her sisters as well.

I too like saints. I appreciate that others in the Church may have a different opinion. But I don’t see why we should not have saints - or beautiful churches - for the people who find those aspects helpful in drawing them closer to God or helping them appreciate God more fully. The saints to me are like the Hall of Fame for sports. Sure there are people who we think should be in there and aren’t, and there are likely many, many more saints in heaven than are on the canonized list. But it’s good to have models and “heroes”, including ones from our contemporary time. It brings the faith very much into the “real world” for me.

If we as church members feel enough money is not being spent on something else like helping the poor, we are free to contribute our money to missions rather than, say, to building the Trinity Dome. It is up to us as individuals.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I wasn’t aware that canonization cost a great deal of money. Also, a lot of saints have a large groundswell of popular support for the canonization - it’s not really necessary to go around campaigning for support. So many people love St. Therese, it would not be a stretch for them to love her sisters as well.

I too like saints. I appreciate that others in the Church may have a different opinion. But I don’t see why we should not have saints - or beautiful churches - for the people who find those aspects helpful in drawing them closer to God or helping them appreciate God more fully.

I agree and it seems Leonie is being re-evaluated in this current age because she was likely not neurotypical and certainly people who can relate to her would be heartened by the idea that “you don’t have to be neurotypical to become a saint”.

(Much as many gay Catholics, and I include both “practicing” and not, would be happy to find out a saint was “gay” or “had SSA”.)

And just because a process such as canonization can arguably be corrupted, doesn’t mean it is inherently corrupt and worthless. The endeavor of helping the poor can be corrupted, too. Many charities have been accused at least of just of being fronts to enrich the people running it, more than actually helping the poor. Some, such as the Wounded Warrior Project, likely started up for noble purposes then lost their way and became focused more on promoting themselves than actually carrying out their mission. Some Church charities have allied with secular agencies that do not follow Church teaching and wind up indirectly supporting abortion, gay rights, etc.

Does that mean it is inherently corrupt to help the poor and needy? Of course not. Yet, Jesus himself did not find the perfume poured on his head “wasted” and the disciple who DID claim that the perfume could have been sold and used to help the poor, was…Judas Iscariot. I have read that Judas himself had an ulterior motive of embezzling some of the money for himself. If you’re going to be cynical about saints then you have to cynical about efforts to help the poor, too.

The saints to me are like the Hall of Fame for sports. Sure there are people who we think should be in there and aren’t, and there are likely many, many more saints in heaven than are on the canonized list. But it’s good to have models and “heroes”, including ones from our contemporary time. It brings the faith very much into the “real world” for me.

Well, since people certainly do make money from being in the Hall of Fame, I’m not sure this is the best analogy to psalm60’s argument.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Well, since people certainly do make money from being in the Hall of Fame, I’m not sure this is the best analogy to psalm60’s argument.

I didn’t think of that. I was just thinking of when you visit the Hall of Fame and you’re reminded that one guy was a fantastic batter and another made that great play during a historic game. I can go down the list of saints and remember how one was a fantastic writer and another saw visions of Jesus and somebody else was a hero during a revolution or war and it’s just interesting, fun even, to see all their different accomplishments, because they are all so different. Even the nuns and priests have different backstories.