Lessons in the limits of force

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Two anniversaries – the end of the war in Vietnam and the revelation of prisoner abuse in Abu Ghraib, Iraq – collided in April. They should serve to remind us that military adventures rarely go according to plan and that in carrying out those misadventures we often become the evil we say we’re fighting.
natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives2/2005b/050605/050605zb.htm
 
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smackdaddy:
Two anniversaries – the end of the war in Vietnam and the revelation of prisoner abuse in Abu Ghraib, Iraq – collided in April. They should serve to remind us that military adventures rarely go according to plan and that in carrying out those misadventures we often become the evil we say we’re fighting.
[War"]natcath.com - natcath Resources and Information.]("natcath.com - natcath Resources and Information.[/QUOTE)War is never a day in the park,but you do NOT encourage people to walk out and put other soldiers in MORE danger:mad: Also once again,the second word war was not about money:mad: I have noticed in your comments that you have not mentioned the Mass graves in Iraq:nope: Or is that none of our business:nope: It is true until you personally are repressed are abused you will not see that unfortunately sometime you have to fight.I would like to hear you try to tell my uncle that the 2nd world war was about money:mad: You really need to think first and then post.
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I tend to always be at odds with NCR’s editorial board (they are not part of the Catholic Church if anyone doesn’t already know), this is no exception.

We lost Vietnam because we lost our will to fight and 3,000,000 people died in SE Asia as a result.

Somehow I doubt we will do that again in Iraq. Here is a quote from a soldier who is there now:

" I do not want my children or others to have to return to this country in 10 years to fix, what we have not finished properly. All I hear in the news anymore is the American Public saying that it (the war) was not worth it. I disagree, whole heartedly. "
 
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gilliam:
Where exactly did Socrates say that?
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"The body and its desires are the only cause of wars and factions and battles; for all wars arise for the sake of gaining money, and we are compelled to gain money for the sake of the body."

Source: Socrates, quoted in Plato’s Phaedo, section 66C (1966 Loeb Classical Library edition, page 231).

For Catholics, this sentiment is confirmed by St. Paul in Sacred Scripture:

**“For the love of money is the root of all evils, and some people in their desire for it have strayed from the faith and have pierced themselves with many pains” (1 Tim 6:10; 1986 NAB).

Confirming the insights of both Socrates and St. Paul, and realizing the sinfulness at the root of unjust wars, the Catholic Church teaches us as follows in section 2327 of the new catechism:

"Because of the evils and injustices that all war brings with it, we must do everything reasonably possible to avoid it. The Church prays: ‘From famine, pestilence, and war, O Lord, deliver us.’"

Let’s listen to Socrates, St. Paul, and the Catholic Church, and not to George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.

Keep and spread the Faith.
 
Steve O’Brien said:
"The body and its desires are the only cause of wars and factions and battles; for all wars arise for the sake of gaining money, and we are compelled to gain money for the sake of the body."

Source: Socrates, quoted in Plato’s Phaedo, section 66C (1966 Loeb Classical Library edition, page 231).
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Thanks, I didn’t doubt he said it, just didn’t know where. Thanks I really appreciate you looking it up.

Now if you can show me where he or St. Paul said we should abandon 25,000,000 people to terrorists, I will be on your side and abandon the people in Iraq. Until them I am for the Iraqis in this struggle for freedom and against the terrorists (who this weekend used hospital patients as human shields, even after the terrorists set off a bomb in the hospital). Sorry, your morally on the wrong side of this current struggle in Iraq.
 
one must be a communist to think WW2 was fought for money.
it is written in a communist history text book: both sides fought for money and power except communists who fought for the liberation of the working class
 
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gilliam:
Thanks, I didn’t doubt he said it, just didn’t know where. Thanks I really appreciate you looking it up.

Now if you can show me where he or St. Paul said we should abandon 25,000,000 people to terrorists, I will be on your side and abandon the people in Iraq. Until them I am for the Iraqis in this struggle for freedom and against the terrorists (who this weekend used hospital patients as human shields, even after the terrorists set off a bomb in the hospital). Sorry, your morally on the wrong side of this current struggle in Iraq.
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I thought the same thing (not doubting he said it, just in what context). I’m quite certain that his context wasn’t a world of suicide terrorism and jihad.

The irony in the title of this thread: “Lessons in limits of force” is that it was made by someone bent on limiting American force against people who seek increased force to annihilate us. Smackdaddy has a good heart, but I hope he never holds a position of power.
 
Notice how he pointed out two things that are refered to as abuses, and how they excede the limts of force anyway. That is no basis for an argument.
 
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