Let's have Rabbis in the Catholic Church

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I think the way to resolve the issue of the role of lay men and women in the Church is to create a permanent lay position as a rabbi.

According to the dictionary, rabbi means Master, Teacher.

I think it should be a completely voluntary and unpaid position, and require both educational qualifications and making a promise to support Church teaching.

I would envision that Rabbis chief qualification and role would be to teach the Bible and the Catechism, in non-liturgical settings.

Within that narrow definition, they might specialize into focusing on different age groups, and with evangelization. (Some people for a lot of reasons are better with children, for example.)

Calling them Rabbis would be egalitarian, treating men and women of the proper qualification in the same way.

Right now, we have lay administrators, lay ministers, and other wannabes. That’s great. But, it’s time to get serious about who should be assisting the parish priests officially with teaching and evangelizing.

There would be no entitlement here of any sort. They would apply to the parish council and pastor for a position, and work a year at a time, with no “rights” to tenure, etc. They have to tow the line, there’s no reason to apply otherwise.

I would imagine that a parish might have up to twenty rabbis, if there were a purpose.
 
If we’re going to use the Hebrew/Aramaic/Yiddish terminology, then the proper term is “rabb” or “rebbe.” The -i ending is first-person singular possessive suffix, making it “my master.” And while I’m on the subject, it’s not “rabb-eye;” rather, it sounds very much like the English nickname “Robbie.”

Actually, there is an ancient Latin-based name for precisely this type of position: “Doctor.”

DaveBj (Language Geek)
 
Also, traditionally a rabb can only be a male. And plus we already have them … they are called Deacons. Their vocation is the same as that of what you say. Generally they are unpaid aswell.
 
I don’t know about rabbis, but we should force all Catholic “cantors” to undergo Hazzan training at a rabbinical institute before singing at Mass.
 
A rabbi is not a mere teacher. A rabbi is actually a judicial post. A rabbi might or might not lead a congregation. A rabbi is to teach, but a rabbi is also to judge, using the Talmud as his basis, and within the constructs of logic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi
 
Cavaille-Coll said:
I don’t know about rabbis, but we should force all Catholic “cantors” to undergo Hazzan training at a rabbinical institute before singing at Mass.
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Or better, at the Pontifical Academy (or Institute?) of Music in Rome.
 
Crumpy said:
Right now, we have lay administrators, lay ministers, and other wannabes. That’s great. But, it’s time to get serious about who should be assisting the parish priests officially with teaching and evangelizing.

There would be no entitlement here of any sort. They would apply to the parish council and pastor for a position, and work a year at a time, with no “rights” to tenure, etc. They have to tow the line, there’s no reason to apply otherwise.

I would imagine that a parish might have up to twenty rabbis, if there were a purpose.
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Actually, I think one of the functions of the acolyte before the demotion of this office from minor order to instituted ministry was to take charge of the catechetical activites of a church, under the supervision of the pastor, of course.
 
Laymen can be catechists, theologians, etc. That’s not that different from what a rabbi does. And I know that laymen can be canon lawyers (but I’m not sure about judges on tribunals or the Sacred Rota). So I tend to think we already have laity doing those things.

Besides, I seem to remember Rabbis being ordained.
 
Crumpy said:
I think the way to resolve the issue of the role of lay men and women in the Church is to create a permanent lay position as a rabbi.

According to the dictionary, rabbi means Master, Teacher.

I think it should be a completely voluntary and unpaid position, and require both educational qualifications and making a promise to support Church teaching.

I would envision that Rabbis chief qualification and role would be to teach the Bible and the Catechism, in non-liturgical settings.

Within that narrow definition, they might specialize into focusing on different age groups, and with evangelization. (Some people for a lot of reasons are better with children, for example.)

Calling them Rabbis would be egalitarian, treating men and women of the proper qualification in the same way.

Right now, we have lay administrators, lay ministers, and other wannabes. That’s great. But, it’s time to get serious about who should be assisting the parish priests officially with teaching and evangelizing.

There would be no entitlement here of any sort. They would apply to the parish council and pastor for a position, and work a year at a time, with no “rights” to tenure, etc. They have to tow the line, there’s no reason to apply otherwise.

I would imagine that a parish might have up to twenty rabbis, if there were a purpose.
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There is such a position. It is called “Catechist” we’ve had them for a very long time. If your church doesn’t, well, that’s unfortunate. But Rabbis would be more Canon Lawyers than Catechists.
 
I think the problem with this plan (though I understand what your getting at) is that having “lay” teachers and adminsters in an official and ordinary (as opposed to extraordinary/volunteer basis) is a sign of decadence in a religion, a sign of decay.

When the clergy are co-opted, and their role is shrunk to only those few things that ordinartion is “essential” for…it is a sign that the religion is falling apart. A distinct clerical class is needed for a proper ordering of a Perfect Society like the Church.

In fact, Judaism started to fall apart when they started having these official “rabbis” who weren’t levitical priests. The pharisees and saducees. In fact, that is the name for decadent judaism: “rabbinical judaism”.

I’m not saying that to be holy you need to be a priest. Obviously, many Saints are not, many of the Prophets were not, and Jesus Himself was not an official temple priest of judaism. But to hold an official hierarchal position like that, not just teaching as a person but acting as a bureaucrat with the authority of the Church…should ordinarily be a clerical job. That’s the whole point of having a clerical class.

So, what I would do…is bring back First Tonsure, and allow perhaps even married men to become “clerics” without necessarily recieving any Orders. That’s how they handled a lot of stuff in the old days.
 
mosher said:
Also, traditionally a rabb can only be a male. And plus we already have them … they are called Deacons. Their vocation is the same as that of what you say. Generally they are unpaid aswell.
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Deacons are fully ordained members of the clergy. The OP is asking about positions in the CC which are not ordained but are for lay members.

Catechist is the closest thing I can think of to what this person is describing.

I don’t know if there’s any sort of certification a catechist needs to undergo by a diocese or archdiocese in order to become a catechist… but I’m sure at the least a potential catechist has a background check and a chat with a parish pastor about his/her orthodoxy, sincerity and character…
 
Semper_Fi said:
Deacons are fully ordained members of the clergy. The OP is asking about positions in the CC which are not ordained but are for lay members.

Catechist is the closest thing I can think of to what this person is describing.

I don’t know if there’s any sort of certification a catechist needs to undergo by a diocese or archdiocese in order to become a catechist… but I’m sure at the least a potential catechist has a background check and a chat with a parish pastor about his/her orthodoxy, sincerity and character…
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I know … I’m just stating that the position is already taken.
 
Semper_Fi said:
Deacons are fully ordained members of the clergy. The OP is asking about positions in the CC which are not ordained but are for lay members.

Catechist is the closest thing I can think of to what this person is describing.

I don’t know if there’s any sort of certification a catechist needs to undergo by a diocese or archdiocese in order to become a catechist… but I’m sure at the least a potential catechist has a background check and a chat with a parish pastor about his/her orthodoxy, sincerity and character…
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Catechists, at least in most places are required to go to training and be certified by the Diocese. Additionally, they are required to attend a certain number of hours of training every year or they will lose their certification. As with everything else some Dioceses are more strict than others and some Parishes are more strict than others in the training of these catechists. In San Diego, I think the course for Basic Catechist lasts about six weeks and is about 50 hours total instruction time.
 
palmas85 said:
Catechists, at least in most places are required to go to training and be certified by the Diocese. Additionally, they are required to attend a certain number of hours of training every year or they will lose their certification. As with everything else some Dioceses are more strict than others and some Parishes are more strict than others in the training of these catechists. In San Diego, I think the course for Basic Catechist lasts about six weeks and is about 50 hours total instruction time.
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I have lived in about 4 difference Diocese, and I have yet to find one which actually installs Catechists who are not pursuing ordination (Priesthood or Permanent Diaconate). That is not to say it isn’t done elsewhere, however. But there are a lot of places that simply leave the Catechism up to whoever volunteers.

Sounds like San Diego has a pretty decent program.

To give you an example of how poor I’ve seen Catechist programs, I was speaking with the Director of Religious Ed. at one of my previous churches while she was administering a test to a child preparing for First Holy Communion. She read the questions out loud, he wrote down the answers. He was required to have memorized the 10 Commandments and to write them down for his test. When he left, she sat down and pulled out a card with the commandments on them saying “I can never remember the 10 commandments”
 
prv said:
Or better, at the Pontifical Academy (or Institute?) of Music in Rome.
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Pax tecum!

Or with the Cantores in Ecclesia in Portland. They do the best Gregorian chant and polyphony I’ve ever heard (even better than the monks at Mount Angel Abby!).

In Christ,
Rand
 
I tell you… I need to get new glasses. This caught my attention because I read it as “Let’s have Rabbits in the Catholic Church”:eek:
 
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