Lets hear the sniveling over this one!!

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She needs to shoot herself again. Maybe then someone will take care of her.

I’d like for someone to show me where the Constitution says the Government OWES everyone healthcare. We have too many liberals.
 
FlyCatcher said:
Admin costs of insurance companies are in line with the rest of US industry. We have no history of government doing the same things cheaper than private companies. Where are you getting the admin costs fort universal systems? Don’t forget the huge amount of administration in the form of paperwork that Medicare forces on health care providers. It is far more than for people covered by private insurance.
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Here is an article about this topic. You can find the same information elsewhere too, it’s pretty well documented. The actual cost cost for a particular procedure in the US is generally quite a bit higher than the same procedure in Canada (or elsewhere with a similar system) and administrative costs are one big reason.

People tend to assume business will always be more efficient than government - it’s almost quoted as an article of faith by many people - but while it is often true it isn’t necessarily the case in every situation.
 
CMatt25 said:
I am sorry if I came across as snarky. CAF drags me down sometimes. I know there’s a difference between you and me. And I don’t know your politics. But if you’re like the typical conservative who opposes national healthcare, you’re probably fine with the govt policing other areas of people’s private lives. Peace.
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First of all I am not fine with the government policing our private lives. Second, taking one individual’s property to give to another individual to pay for a service is not private, it’s legalized plunder.

In Christ,
Joe
 
FlyCatcher said:
That’s just paperwork. Did Christ limit Christian charity to people with the right kind of paper?
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Yes, Christ doesn’t allow people who reject him into heaven. Just as Canadians will not provide health care to people who aren’t Citizens.

In both cases, people are being rejected.
 
CMatt25 said:
1 & 2 If one has a pre existing condition and can even get affordable coverage, and has to pay at least $200 - $300/mo or more but first has to pay a ridiculously high $5000 - $10,000 in deductibles before the coverage kicks in, it’s useless unless a major hospitalization and that’s assuming they can afford the first thousands of dollars in bills to begin with.
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Once you have a condition it’s no longer insurance. How much do you think home owner’s insurance would cost if you waited until your house burned down to purchase it?
CMatt25 said:
  1. 🤷 If it was up to me they would have less profit magin. As far as I am concerned “Obamacare” did not go far enough. If not single payer at the very least we need a public option to provide greater competition. Without it all we did besides eventually eliminating pre-existing conditions, is to eventually force everyone to buy private insurance. if you’re more worried about their margins, that should help. God bless and peace.
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Their profit margin is too high according to whom? Are you the sole arbiter on how much is enough? Do you get to determine how much money everyone else makes as well? On what criteria do you base your arbitrary judgment? What gives you the authority to decide how much other people make?

In Christ
Joe
 
FlyCatcher said:
Seems you have enough to afford a computer and an internet connection. What else do you have that you have chosen to buy rather than health care?
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Good try! This computer was only 200 bucks, and I cant apply for somejobs without it. If I were to give up internet. There would still not be even one tenth the money enough to buy healthcare, and I’d not be able to search for jobs and I’d go into a down word spiral of depression from having a purely physical existance and nothing intellectual to look foreword to. I’m not the subject anyway, the woman in Niles is! Changing the subject doesn’t work with me.😛
 
josephdaniel29 said:
First of all I am not fine with the government policing our private lives. Second, taking one individual’s property to give to another individual to pay for a service is not private, it’s legalized plunder.

In Christ,
Joe
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Then my taxes paying for a fire truck to come to your home is plunder. Ok then lets get rid of everything and have anarchy.
 
Bluegoat said:
Here is an article about this topic. You can find the same information elsewhere too, it’s pretty well documented. The actual cost cost for a particular procedure in the US is generally quite a bit higher than the same procedure in Canada (or elsewhere with a similar system) and administrative costs are one big reason.

People tend to assume business will always be more efficient than government - it’s almost quoted as an article of faith by many people - but while it is often true it isn’t necessarily the case in every situation.
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Hmph business more efficient than governement. I have yet to work for a company thats efficient. Efiicient businesses, I’m going to laughing all night at that one.
 
josephdaniel29 said:
Once you have a condition it’s no longer insurance. How much do you think home owner’s insurance would cost if you waited until your house burned down to purchase it?

Their profit margin is too high according to whom? Are you the sole arbiter on how much is enough? Do you get to determine how much money everyone else makes as well? On what criteria do you base your arbitrary judgment? What gives you the authority to decide how much other people make?

In Christ
Joe
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Maybe the fact that the insurance companies do it at cost and detrement of the good of society.
 
Desertsailor said:
She needs to shoot herself again. Maybe then someone will take care of her.

I’d like for someone to show me where the Constitution says the Government OWES everyone healthcare. We have too many liberals.
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The 1933 war powers act implemented the executive order and made the constitution null and void. Funny how you conservatives worry about only certain things when it comes to the constitution. Money printed out of thin air by a private for profit bank, and backed by nothing is unconstitutional also, but there is no outcry over that. Maybe you need some real pain to understand what others go through.
 
Bluegoat said:
Here is an article about this topic. You can find the same information elsewhere too, it’s pretty well documented. The actual cost cost for a particular procedure in the US is generally quite a bit higher than the same procedure in Canada (or elsewhere with a similar system) and administrative costs are one big reason.

People tend to assume business will always be more efficient than government - it’s almost quoted as an article of faith by many people - but while it is often true it isn’t necessarily the case in every situation.
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Well, that article tells us nothing until we see exactly what they measured. Costs in what areas? Doctors offices? Government? Companies? Drug development? Hospitals? Disbursement offices? We also need to know what they classigfied as admin costs, and what they did not classify. Were they direct costs, or did they include allocations for support? How were indirects measured?

Read the last paragraph for a flavor of what i am talking about. In a government system, we also have to distinguish between costs and prices.

Did they include the costs associated with all the reasearch in US drug development? The US is the development engine for the whole world. Medical technology? the Us, Germany, Japan, and the Netherlands source the whole worl on that.

How about all the costs associeted with the thousands of foreigners who come to the US for teratment?

Much better comparisons are done on individual components. For example, admin costs in hospitals., paperwork in doctors offices, collections vs disbursements.

There is also the question of the cost of waiting. If one system delivers an MRI in one day, while the other takes months, we need to norm the data to take that into account. For example, per capita admin costs im Mali are probably below both Canada and the US.

I read this stuff all the time, and would interested in that study. i’ll see if i can find it.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Good try! This computer was only 200 bucks, and I cant apply for somejobs without it. If I were to give up internet. There would still not be even one tenth the money enough to buy healthcare, and I’d not be able to search for jobs and I’d go into a down word spiral of depression from having a purely physical existance and nothing intellectual to look foreword to. I’m not the subject anyway, the woman in Niles is! Changing the subject doesn’t work with me.😛
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Really :confused: … in reality my tax $$'s fund libraries that contain high speed internet access, computers and various sources of 'intellectual challenges and entertainment … nd if you get up and walk to the closest one - you could serch for a job and get exercise making you a healtier and happier human being … and if you are using a ‘dial-up’ connection and are loking for work - Perhaps you should not be tying up the line by searching internet sites and posting at forums like this … how are you going to get that employer call setting up an interview …

And I know all about applying for jobs via the internet - I did that from December 2008 until I was hired in 2010 … I know all about ‘cutting expenses’ and using savings - un-employment and payng bills … I know all about being in financial insecurity …

We do not need more and more government programs - enslaving people -
 
aspawloski4th said:
The 1933 war powers act implemented the executive order and made the constitution null and void. Funny how you conservatives worry about only certain things when it comes to the constitution. Money printed out of thin air by a private for profit bank, and backed by nothing is unconstitutional also, but there is no outcry over that. Maybe you need some real pain to understand what others go through.
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A- Give me an example of a for profit bank printing money.
B- Why is money that is only valuable because we think it is worse than money that is valuable because it is backed by gold which is only valuable because we think it is?
C- Please show me where and how this contradicts the constitution.
 
Zatzat said:
Yes, Christ doesn’t allow people who reject him into heaven. Just as Canadians will not provide health care to people who aren’t Citizens.

In both cases, people are being rejected.
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So, all that Christian charity is just talk? It really is rationed?
 
aspawloski4th said:
Good try! This computer was only 200 bucks, and I cant apply for somejobs without it. If I were to give up internet. There would still not be even one tenth the money enough to buy healthcare, and I’d not be able to search for jobs and I’d go into a down word spiral of depression from having a purely physical existance and nothing intellectual to look foreword to. I’m not the subject anyway, the woman in Niles is! Changing the subject doesn’t work with me.😛
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You told us:
  • I contacted a Christian charity about getting my 100’s of moles and skin tags looked at for possible cancer, and I couldn’t prove to thier standards that I am unemployed! *
So, that $200 would pay for the doctors checkup.

Libraries have excellent computers and high speed connection. use it tto apply for a job.

Want intellectual stimulation? Read a book. Get a library card. Folks did just fine for thousands of years without computers or internet. Start with the Harvard Great Books Collection.

The rest of us don’t owe you intellectual recreation.
 
I can relate to this woman. I injured my shoulder October 17th, 2009. Since then I HAVE had an MRI done ($1,100) and they said I needed surgery but wanted to do an Arthogram beforehand. The doctor gave me a Cordizone shot and told me to come back in a month. I ran out of money and STILL haven’t had any more work done. (I have picked up a second job to make ends meet, but I haven’t made any real headway yet.)

This should pain is also making it hard to sleep, so I know how the chronic pain and lack of sleep (without having the funds to do anything about it) can make a person start to think of “creative” ways to get it fixed. (I have a gun, and thought about shooting my shoulder as well, lol…but I didn’t do it because 1) it’s dishonest, 2) seems painful, and 3) it’s crazy, lol.)

Hopefully I get it fixed soon, because the depression is getting more…depressing. =/
 
FlyCatcher said:
You told us:
*I contacted a Christian charity about getting my 100’s of moles and skin tags looked at for possible cancer, and I couldn’t prove to thier standards that I am unemployed! *

So, that $200 would pay for the doctors checkup.

Libraries have excellent computers and high speed connection. use it tto apply for a job.

Want intellectual stimulation? Read a book. Get a library card. Folks did just fine for thousands of years without computers or internet. Start with the Harvard Great Books Collection.

The rest of us don’t owe you intellectual recreation.
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Ok smartbutt. That 200 dollar computer was bought quite a while ago. I know the library system in my area. their computers are good for looking at things, but applying for jobs on them doesn’t work out. One only gets a 1/2 hour a day on them. Your anti intelectual attitude , which I see quite abit makes me fear for our society deeply. I have learned quite alot thru the internet. From ancient German and Slav history to what new weatherforcasting models are out there since I graduated college. As for the thousands of year without internet, common folks also did without reading period for thousands of years. Don’t give me a lecture on history, because I likely know circles around you. By the way. That 200 hundred bucks would only get me an appointment to look at them at best, taking any off is tons more… Also while Im at it, thast computer was purchased several years ago when I had insurance and when the moles werent nearly as bad. If you house burns down the rest of us do not owe you a fire department to come put out your house fire!
 
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