Let's Keep It Simple: Does It Matter?

[SenorSalsa]

But why should Catholics stop supporting this movement? The Ecclesia Dei commission has stated many times that the faithful fulfill their Sunday obligation by attending, and that they may make monetary contributions. Remember, the SSPX is an ‘internal’ matter for the Church.

I could be wrong, but I thought the only according to some letter from Rome, it was only ok to attend an SSPX if it was the only possible option, and at that point, it wouldnt matter, becuase the Obligation would be dispensed anyways.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

BECAUSE THE POPE SAID TO STOP!!!

Why are you ‘yelling’ at me? I can ‘hear’ just fine. As a Catholic who ‘gets it’, it would do you more good to charitably and clearly explain the situation to somebody like me who ‘doesn’t get it’ than to write in all caps and add four billion exclamation points. This is a discussion forum. Discuss. Also, cite your sources, show quotes etc. Maybe this is an example of the “oh-so-holy” and “holier-than-thou” behavior that ethelzguy was talking about elsewhere? If you ask me, it’s more of an emotional outburst, a product of the wrong type of “feelings” that I have mentioned elsewhere.

HELLO!!!

Hi, how do you do!? Nice to meet you.

 

[peary]

I read somewhere (wish I could remember) that only part of Bishop Fellay’s response was made public, and that the rest is going to be made public on July 30, though I could be wrong. I don’t have firsthand knowledge or anything, just something I remember reading.

It’s only common sense that the situation is going to be regularized. The SSPX can’t last outside of perfect communion, and the Church needs them because of their growth and vibrancy.

It’s a win-win, but people are so unnecessarily afraid of the TLM that they don’t look at things charitably or objectively.

**From what I’ve read, there’s a lot of dissension in the SSPX right now. There are many who want to return to Rome but are being kept from doing so. The society will start breaking apart and they will start returning. Fellay may be the only one left by the time this is completed. **

 

[CassiusLonginus]

**From what I’ve read, there’s a lot of dissension in the SSPX right now. There are many who want to return to Rome but are being kept from doing so. The society will start breaking apart and they will start returning. Fellay may be the only one left by the time this is completed. **

Hmm, possible, I guess. However, the SSPX doesn’t have the power to ‘keep people from returning to Rome’. How would they accomplish this? Leashes? Chains? Implanted computer chips that take away their free will?

This sounds like the protestant claim that people were kept from reading the bible because it was ‘chained’. Can you link your assertion to a credible source?

 

[peary]

Hmm, possible, I guess. However, the SSPX doesn’t have the power to ‘keep people from returning to Rome’. How would they accomplish this? Leashes? Chains? Implanted computer chips that take away their free will?

This sounds like the protestant claim that people were kept from reading the bible because it was ‘chained’. Can you link your assertion to a credible source?

Obviously you haven’t worked under an administration.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

What’s with the people around here saying: “Obviously”, and then following it with an asinine assumption about me? I’ve been here, what, a week (?), and this has happened twice already!

Obviously you don’t know me. Your kind of response isn’t conducive to…anything, least of having discussions. Also, where’s the charity? This is the “Catholic” Answers “Discussion” Forum, isn’t it? “Catholic” is almost synonymous with “kindness” and “charitable”, right, and the word “Discussion” means…?

Instead of ad hominem attacks, why don’t you address my post with something that has a semblance of substance.

Oh yeah, and by the way, I’m glad the original 9 FSSP priests houdini’d their ways out of their shackles and straight-jackets. Must’ve been divine intervention or something…You know, that SSPX administration is nigh impossible to get out of!!!

 

[charlesbarkley]

Why are you ‘yelling’ at me? I can ‘hear’ just fine. As a Catholic who ‘gets it’, it would do you more good to charitably and clearly explain the situation to somebody like me who ‘doesn’t get it’ than to write in all caps and add four billion exclamation points. This is a discussion forum. Discuss. Also, cite your sources, show quotes etc. Maybe this is an example of the “oh-so-holy” and “holier-than-thou” behavior that ethelzguy was talking about elsewhere? If you ask me, it’s more of an emotional outburst, a product of the wrong type of “feelings” that I have mentioned elsewhere.

Hi, how do you do!? Nice to meet you.

I apologize i was just trying to have some fun with you. I do cite my source. It was/is John Paul II’s Letter Ecclessia Dei. (1988) It forbids Catholics from supporting the society in “anyway.” God Bless. AND DON’T SUPPORT THOSE NEO-CATHOLICS!!!

 

[peary]

What’s with the people around here saying: “Obviously”, and then following it with an asinine assumption about me? I’ve been here, what, a week (?), and this has happened twice already!

Obviously you don’t know me. Your kind of response isn’t conducive to…anything, least of having discussions. Also, where’s the charity? This is the “Catholic” Answers “Discussion” Forum, isn’t it? “Catholic” is almost synonymous with “kindness” and “charitable”, right, and the word “Discussion” means…?

Instead of ad hominem attacks, why don’t you address my post with something that has a semblance of substance.

Oh yeah, and by the way, I’m glad the original 9 FSSP priests houdini’d their ways out of their shackles and straight-jackets. Must’ve been divine intervention or something…You know, that SSPX administration is nigh impossible to get out of!!!

Methinks you have bit of an attitude.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Ecclessia Dei. (1988) It forbids Catholics from supporting the society in “anyway.”

Right, but what’s the exact quote from EDA? I ask because Msgr. Perls letter claims to be ‘authoritative’ since he’s the head of the ED commission and it contradicts what you’ve said about JPII’s EDA…So basically Perl is…lying?

God Bless. AND DON’T SUPPORT THOSE NEO-CATHOLICS!!!

Let’s see…No SSPX and no NEO-CATHOLICS…? That leaves who exactly? Do you mean the FSSP?

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Methinks you have bit of an attitude.

Maybe. But this time I was simply reminding certain members of this forum not to claim to know who I am, to know what I am, and to make childish assumptions about either. 1 Corinthians, chapter 13, verse 11.

 

[Aramis]

Hmm, possible, I guess. However, the SSPX doesn’t have the power to ‘keep people from returning to Rome’. How would they accomplish this?

As with all priests and deacons (and ordained subdeacons), the SSPX members have taken vows of obedience to their bishop. Since the open dissent (which is not yet formal schism, but sure looks like material schism) of the SSPX, many have taken their vows to their SSPX bishops, specifically those ordained by them.

Returning to Rome separate from their bishop, and without their bishop’s release, they would be breaking a solemn vow, for those who were ordained by the SSPX at least, and for most of them formerly under Archbishop Lefebvre.

Further, the new priests ordained since the open dissent began may have been formed to expect not to be welcomed back, and we know they are taught that the Church has gone astray to at least some degree.

Further, they must, in order to come back, learn to say, and be willing to say, the Ordinary Form of the Roman Mass. Again, this is something they are taught is not appropriate.

There is thus psychological pressure to remain, even if Holy Mother Church would absolve them of that sin of Disobedience of their Bishop, and welcome them back.

They must overcome the errors they have been taught, and the perceptions of error in the Catholic Church in order to be functioning priests in the Catholic Church.

It’s not simple from their point of view… they must admit to

1. having been wrong
2. having been taught wrong
3. having come to grips with those errors and seen that they are, in fact, errors.

That’s hard stuff to do.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Aramis,

Though I may or may not agree with it all, I thank you for your substantial reply. (shall I add numerous exclamation points!!!). It’s just too late for me to reply with anything other than bla…ya know? Maybe tomorrow. Thank you again!

 

[Aramis]

I can simplify it: the SSPX have become a culture, one which has great fear of and disdain for mainstream Catholic Culture and its praxis; that fear & disdain, plus the vows of obedience, create a sense of difficulty in leaving.

Bonds forged by Psychology and human frailty. Cause to pray for them.

 

[latinmass]

Why do think the pope said do not to support the SSPX in any way.? I know of no such docment or statement. Shame on you if you cannot back up this statement. IF you can, please cite the document or provide the link.

 

[latinmass]

I want to ask a very simple question. Does it really matter, in one sense, if the Society of Pius X is officially, formally in schism? This, as oppossed to, canonically suspended? (Of course, I understand it does matter in the legal canonical sense, PLEASE SAVE THE EXPLANATION OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO)
Why do I say, in one sense it doesnt matter? We, as Catholics, are bound to obey the Holy Father in matters of Church discipline. According to Vatican I we are bound to obey the Pope on matters of Church administration. Pope John Paul II has clearly commanded(this has not been officialy reversed by Pope Benedict XVI) Catholics to stop supporting the Society “in ANY WAY.” It makes no difference whether they are in formal schism or not in that sense. If you want to be true to the Pope then you must do what he commands. It is clear that the Pope has commanded Catholics to cease any support. I would think that every Catholic has to at least adopt that same attitude in regard to the Society.

It is clear? Please see post #34. You are misquoting Ecclesia Dei or lying.

 

[latinmass]

BECAUSE THE POPE SAID TO STOP!!! HELLO!!!

Where and when did the Pope say this? Please cite.

 

[latinmass]

I saw you quoted JP2 letter to Ecclesia Dei. The new pope has made some changes regarding SSPX, sorry for the fleeting thought of thinking you were lying, but your are innocently unaware of the new changes allowing attendance at SSPX masses, it is fine to go if one does not go in a spirit of schism. The TLM is not given everywhere and the only way to get it is through the SSPX. That is pretty simple. Keep up with Church developments, hopefully you did not lead anyone astray with your previous comments, but this is all about learning, and/or teaching.

 

[peary]

Maybe. But this time I was simply reminding certain members of this forum not to claim to know who I am, to know what I am, and to make childish assumptions about either. 1 Corinthians, chapter 13, verse 11.

**I don’t think I want to know. No offense, of course. **

 

[charlesbarkley]

Right, but what’s the exact quote from EDA? I ask because Msgr. Perls letter claims to be ‘authoritative’ since he’s the head of the ED commission and it contradicts what you’ve said about JPII’s EDA…So basically Perl is…lying?

Let’s see…No SSPX and no NEO-CATHOLICS…? That leaves who exactly? Do you mean the FSSP?

Well Perl can give interviews and stand on his head and spit nickles, butit doesnt matter. When Benedict XVI says that this position is now the position of the Church then John Paul’s decree is oveturned. This hasnt happened yet.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Well Perl can give interviews and stand on his head and spit nickles,

At the same time!?!? That’s an interesting fact. Is there video of this on youtube?

butit doesnt matter.

Not to you, of course.

When Benedict XVI says that this position is now the position of the Church then John Paul’s decree is oveturned. This hasnt happened yet.

Hilarious.

In the meantime, where does that leave our dear Msgr. Perl, and more importantly, Cardinal Castrillon-Hoyos? Both of these have dared to defy JPII. Are they…what, idiots? Insane? Forgetful? Maybe they’ll be given public penances for their dastardly contradictions.