Lets see Rome and Copenhagen comment on this one

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When your home is dirty do you just get in and clean it up or do you over exaggerate condemn it and say the house is going to completely fall apart because some carless person made a mess. Like you know… cry over spilt milk, basically.
If you leave a mess people are going to get ill. Well clean it up its no big deal.

People can over exaggerate about a mess in a home. You gotta get a grip. its a mess and you clean it:shrug:

Whatever your views are about cfact or who funds them… Their just about being constructive about the mess some people make. Lets be constructive.

Sorry if I seemed condescending. I didn’t mean to be.
For a long time, indeed up until the Clean Water Act of the early 1970’s, industry in America used rivers and streams as the cheapest way to get rid of toxins, garbage, sewage, and so forth. After laws were passed they were enforced… in some places. In others, people have to police violations themselves. That takes volunteers going to some pretty nasty places to get samples. These are the sort of people I suggest you give some time to help - their equivalents in Australia. Here in the U.S., they are far outnumbered in the manpower necessary to do the things they need to do. If we do not help them, these things don’t get done- and the laws aren’t enforced - because ‘they’ are ‘us’.

I agree- when my home is dirty I clean it. The problem is when the ‘home’ is an entire region and the ‘homeowners’ haven’t cleaned anything in 100 years. Some of these sites are so toxic that they cannot support life. Do a web search for ‘superfund site’.

Again, ask someone who is actively trying to clean up their environment how healthy the environment is, and you’ll get some accurate answers. They are not answers available via a comfy chair and a computer screen.
 
Thanks for the link. An informed rebuttal, indeed. However, since I am not a physicist I can’t competently judge the merits of the technical arguments of either side. I can only take note of the gist of a position. 👍
But doesn’t the paper
rabett-run-labs.googlegroups.com/web/G%26T_rebuttal-2-6.pdf?gda=RuUy5koAAAD-V93pcJS_jZUMaXEUmyYvAn7fuEue3Amu4s_58Nd6jGP5lCq_E9H643M_Z42vuq8oRpvv96usv87eApGQGon2_e3Wg0GnqfdKOwDqUih1tA&hl=en
show that the conclusions of Dr. Gerlich and his colleague, Dr. Ralf Tscheuschner are in serious error?
 
Certainly. From what I can understand of the rebuttal it is enough for me to ignore the work of Dr. Gerlich and Dr. Ralf Tscheuschner. But it would be interesting, for lack of a better word, to see Gerlich and Tscheuschner publish a rebuttal of the rebuttal.
 
I’ve been reading a lot about this, and although I am of slightly above average intelligence (no brag- just fact), I can only absorb and process so much information. I have to rely on people I trust (not the MSM) to inform me. I sure know that you cannot believe everything you read on the internet (a phrase some like to throw at me when I make a statement they may not agree with).

I have been looking for some kind of source from universities to make a case that global warming is alarmist. There is a 2 hr debate at MIT in which Dr. Lindzen, a lone dissenter (if you can call him that) is on the panel. A dear friend of mine (who has recently said he only believes in Science and has become an atheist) will only take these sources as legitimate.
Any help here??

I do appreciate the links which have been posted here. I still think there is quite a lot of alarmism going on; that too many scientists have been influenced by money & politics; that our own Church is being politicized (at least in America) & polarized by the Left; and am afraid that govt. policies will be put in place which will, in the long run, actually hurt the poor and squelch economic progress and ingenuity in other fields (due to totalitarian control).

All that being said, we must continue to pray, try to become more holy, and focus on Jesus and what He has done (is doing, and will do) for us!

Happy New Year to all – and God bless,
Mimi
 
All that being said, we must continue to pray, try to become more holy, and focus on Jesus and what He has done (is doing, and will do) for us!

Happy New Year to all – and God bless,
Mimi
My mother had a wonderful saying " God helps those who help themselves" Prayer can sometimes be just words actually doing something can be prayer
2010 years ago Jesus did something for us. I wonder what he said about people spreading propaganda.
 
I am militantly against the preaching of the global warming crowd. I see it as a way for the annointed few to grab money and power. It seems that many substitute the earth for God.
I believe it will bring about power structures that will limit peoples inalienable rights, persecute the Church, and bring about population control throughout the world. More abortion, euthanasia, and maybe even infanticide. It does happen in China. The Gore and his peers are snake oil salesmen and their followers are true believers.

However, I recycle my recylables. I take my used motor oil to the service station for proper disposal, rather than dumping it on the back forty. I don’t litter. I check appliances for their energy effeciency ratings, before buying them. I take care of the trees on my property. I am environmentally responsible, not fanatical. Being a good steward of the earth does not require belief in global warming.

I believe that Genesis says something about being good stewards of the earth.

I worry about the Church sometimes when I hear members of the hierarchy warn us of global warming. It seems the Church, at times, has more to say about that then they do the salvation of souls, which is the ultimate mission of the Church. There was a Bishop from the Phillipines giving the sermon on EWTNs Mass this morning. He talked about global warming. I’d rather die from global warming than go to hell. We need to keep our priorities straight.
 
There are no pro-global warming petitions.

So, the 30,000 number beats the zero.
 
I worry about the Church sometimes when I hear members of the hierarchy warn us of global warming. .
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ and Catholics should listen to everything that he says.
 
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ and Catholics should listen to everything that he says.
Yeah, but if he says we should all eat keilbasi for breakfast, well, we can listen to him, but he has no special credentials in nutrition and diet.

Ditto, on science.

And:

If global warming is true, then why did the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit find it necessary to lie and rig the numbers to make their graphs and charts reveal a global warming trend?
 
The pope says we should be good stewards yes, but he also said this…🙂

dailymail.co.uk/news/arti…hets-doom.html
I read BXVI’s 2008 World Day for Peace Message back in 2008, and had a quite different interpretation than that of the Daily Mail.

PART 1:
The family, the human community and the environment
  1. The family needs a home, a fit environment in which to develop its proper relationships. For the human family, this home is the earth, the environment that God the Creator has given us to inhabit with creativity and responsibility. We need to care for the environment: it has been entrusted to men and women to be protected and cultivated with responsible freedom, with the good of all as a constant guiding criterion. Human beings, obviously, are of supreme worth vis-à-vis creation as a whole. Respecting the environment does not mean considering material or animal nature more important than man. Rather, it means not selfishly considering nature to be at the complete disposal of our own interests, for future generations also have the right to reap its benefits and to exhibit towards nature the same responsible freedom that we claim for ourselves. Nor must we overlook the poor, who are excluded in many cases from the goods of creation destined for all. Humanity today is rightly concerned about the ecological balance of tomorrow. It is important for assessments in this regard to be carried out prudently, in dialogue with experts and people of wisdom, uninhibited by ideological pressure to draw hasty conclusions, and above all with the aim of reaching agreement on a model of sustainable development capable of ensuring the well-being of all while respecting environmental balances.
This means Bush really should have signed the Kyoto Protocol, especially since the majority of Americans were in favor of doing so, and it was the correct and moral thing to do. By “ideological pressure” he probably means (or at least also means) that of the anti-environmentalists, who are in the business of perverting science and intimidating scientists, and make hasty and unfounded judgments that there are no environmental problems, no AGW. Bush should have stopped his suppression of climate science, which was going on quite vigorously for several years before that message, and had come out in the news.
If the protection of the environment involves costs, they should be justly distributed, taking due account of the different levels of development of various countries and the need for solidarity with future generations.
Americans and other rich people and countries shouldn’t expect to get off cheap, putting the mitigation burden on the poor and future generations. You break it, you buy it. It’s not right to harm, impoverish, and kill the unborn and yet-to-be born.

More in my next. . .
 
Yes well why does The Holy Father in Rome join in and say that we need to look after the enviroment and many other clergy around the world siding with the lefties.🤷
I’m not sure what you mean by “sideing with the lefties”, but the Pope is quite right when he says we need to look after the environment. There are two extremes at play here, and I think you are demonstrating quite nicely the oppisite extreme as the global warming alarmists.

That is, the mistaken belief that humanity in no way impacts the environment. This is every bit as false as the notion that humanty will be dead in 5 years unless we take drastic action right now. What the church advocates is prudent environmentalism… That is, we should take what steps we can short of undoly hindering progress in feeding the world, scientific advancement etc of protecting the environement.

The earth is a gift from God to humanity, it is in our care. It would be a sin to disregard and profain that gift by believeing that we can do anything we want regardless of the impact on the environment.
 
PART 2:
Some more of BXVI’s 2008 World Day for Peace Message.
[No. 7 continued]…Prudence does not mean failing to accept responsibilities and postponing decisions; it means being committed to making joint decisions after pondering responsibly the road to be taken, decisions aimed at strengthening that covenant between human beings and the environment, which should mirror the creative love of God, from whom we come and towards whom we are journeying.
This does not mean we shouldn’t do all we can as individuals to mitigate environmental problems. JPII made it clear in his 1990 World Day for Peace Message that it is everyone’s responsibility to do so; and the Church recognizes subsidiarity – which means functions which subordinate or local organizations perform effectively belong more properly to them than to a dominant central organization.

What BXVI recognizes here is that there are also decisions to be made at higher levels. For instance, if only committed and moral individuals reduced their oil consumption, then the price of oil would go down, and the less moral and the evil would simply use more. There has to be some mechanism at a higher level than the individual that has the effect of reducing fossil fuel burning and other environmental harms – whether by getting rid of fossil fuel subsidies and tax-breaks, or by some fee or tax imposed on fossil fuel consumption, or by promoting alternative energy, or by some other means. We as a moral community need to come up with effective solutions, and very soon, not postponing it.
  1. In this regard, it is essential to “sense” that the earth is “our common home” and, in our stewardship and service to all, to choose the path of dialogue rather than the path of unilateral decisions.
The tactics of refusing to participate, of disrupting international discussion, and refusing to play along are really bad. Bush REALLY should have signed the Kyoto Protocol, or at the least (as a Papua New Guinea man pleaded with the U.S. delegate in the 2007 Bali CC Conference) – “Lead, follow, or get out of the way.”
Further international agencies may need to be established [like the IPCC] in order to confront together the stewardship of this “home” of ours; more important, however, is the need for ever greater conviction about the need for responsible cooperation. The problems looming on the horizon are complex and time is short.
We are fast approaching tipping points, beyond which we will not be able to stave off very serious environmental problems. The complexity of these problems makes them even more difficult to predict and solve, so we must act now to reduce dire risks.
In order to face this situation effectively, there is a need to act in harmony. One area where there is a particular need to intensify dialogue between nations is that of the stewardship of the earth’s energy resources. The technologically advanced countries are facing two pressing needs in this regard: on the one hand, to reassess the high levels of consumption due to the present model of development [this speaks loud and clear for itself], and on the other hand to invest sufficient resources in the search for alternative sources of energy and for greater energy efficiency. The emerging counties are hungry for energy, but at times this hunger is met in a way harmful to poor countries which, due to their insufficient infrastructures, including their technological infrastructures, are forced to undersell the energy resources they do possess. At times, their very political freedom is compromised by forms of protectorate or, in any case, by forms of conditioning which appear clearly humiliating.
Our greed for oil and other resources for our profligate (inefficient/liberal) use has lead to poverty and ruin in many poor nations. We break it, we buy this problem, and must work to solve it.
 
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