Let's STOP gay marriage now!

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You are either responding to someone else’s post or perhaps you completely misunderstand what I wrote. I did not say that there were no differences between heterosexual and homosexual relationships. There most assuredly are differences.
My answer was (perhaps too obliquely) related to this:
To think that people want to ape heterosexuality and to say that it is beyond you is showing and saying that you are incapable of understanding how anyone can have a different world view than yours and that of the CC.

If you read the opinions of homosexuals who oppose a same-sex version of marriage, one common objection is a distaste for (and even offense taken at) the enterprise of two people of the same sex trying to approximate heterosexual relationships.

I think you can be quite capable of “understanding” someone else’s views and yet still think it beyond the pale to think that way. If I were to tell you I thought the world was flat, surely you might rightly say that such a view is beyond you, would you not?
 
My answer was (perhaps too obliquely) related to this:
To think that people want to ape heterosexuality and to say that it is beyond you is showing and saying that you are incapable of understanding how anyone can have a different world view than yours and that of the CC.

If you read the opinions of homosexuals who oppose a same-sex version of marriage, one common objection is a distaste for (and even offense taken at) the enterprise of two people of the same sex trying to approximate heterosexual relationships.

I think you can be quite capable of “understanding” someone else’s views and yet still think it beyond the pale to think that way. If I were to tell you I thought the world was flat, surely you might rightly say that such a view is beyond you, would you not?
In what way do you assume I am thinking? I am totally lost as how to respond to your comment.
 
In what way do you assume I am thinking? I am totally lost as how to respond to your comment.
I wonder why you are confused. You basically said that it was people like me (with my attitude) which will make SSM legal, because I dared to say that people with SSA were imitating heterosexuals (with marriage, surrogacy, etc.). Supposedly, my bigotry will inflame people to approve of SSM.

EasterJoy has pointed out that, while you said you could not see how I could speak and think as I did , he/she is sure that you actually can, as even many gays against same sex marriage have spoken of their distaste at such “aping” of the straight life.
 
I wonder why you are confused. You basically said that it was people like me (with my attitude) which will make SSM legal, because I dared to say that people with SSA were imitating heterosexuals (with marriage, surrogacy, etc.). Supposedly, my bigotry will inflame people to approve of SSM.

EasterJoy has pointed out that, while you said you could not see how I could speak and think as I did , he/she is sure that you actually can, as even many gays against same sex marriage have spoken of their distaste at such “aping” of the straight life.
Thank you for clearing that up. This is what I wrote. I eliminated what might distract.
“What is offensive is not the CC reasoning on same sex acts…but the total misunderstanding by individuals like yourself of basic human needs and desires to people with SSA.”

EasterJoy responded at first to something I did not write and when she did respond to what I wrote she justified her distension with a bit about some homosexuals that oppose SSM. You both appear to misapprehend what I find offensive. The fact that you, EJ and some gays are against SSM or that you and her are for civil unions does not offend or concern me.

I don’t know how you come up with bigotry. To my knowledge bigotry and misunderstanding are not synonymous.
 
In what way do you assume I am thinking? I am totally lost as how to respond to your comment.
Considering the limitations of the medium, it is a wonder that we don’t find we are misunderstanding each other more often. I would not worry about it if I were you; I am probably just missing your point. That is going to happen some fraction of the time, no matter what you do, no matter how clear you are, so it is no reflection on you. I have to say, you’ve been gracious about it.

I’m going to assume I’m just missing your meaning, and leave it at that. If you have something you want to clarify, that’s OK by me, but I’m not going to offer any more quibbles. I apologize if I’ve been a frustration.
 
Thank you for clearing that up. This is what I wrote. I eliminated what might distract.
“What is offensive is not the CC reasoning on same sex acts…but the total misunderstanding by individuals like yourself of basic human needs and desires to people with SSA.”

EasterJoy responded at first to something I did not write and when she did respond to what I wrote she justified her distension with a bit about some homosexuals that oppose SSM. You both appear to misapprehend what I find offensive. The fact that you, EJ and some gays are against SSM or that you and her are for civil unions does not offend or concern me.

I don’t know how you come up with bigotry. To my knowledge bigotry and misunderstanding are not synonymous.
OK, then. I don’t think I misunderstand the basic human needs and desires of gay people or any other persons in any way. But I am against SSM.

‘Bigotry’ is the word pulled out by gay advocates whenever any misunderstanding, hesitation, reflection arises about SSM, so sorry if I applied that thinking to you.
 
Addendum:
An openly gay columnist in Ireland has this to say about SSM:
“Marriage is being redefined, not because the nature of the family has changed, but because those seeking change either do not understand the purpose of the institution, or worse, are actively hostile to that purpose. They may sound like talking Hallmark cards, but their reasons are far from pretty…A debate about marriage is fundamentally a debate about the legal structure of families and the relationship between parents, children and society.”
(Paddy Manning, 27 June 2014)
 
Addendum:
An openly gay columnist in Ireland has this to say about SSM:

(Paddy Manning, 27 June 2014)
This is what I meant. To say that homosexuals and heterosexuals have intrinsically different relationships does not necessarily mean the speaker has a thing against homosexuals or homosexual couples. Someone can even have a very favorable view of homosexual relations and still say the same.

I have run up against the same thing with regards certain feminist activists. They often accuse political opponents of being “anti-woman” and won’t hear of any talk of real differences existing between men and women. Their stance is that gender is some kind of artificial construct. Some try to treat those who object to such thinking as if the objectors are OBVIOUSLY bigots, whether the objectors are make or female.
 
And when interracial marriage was illegal, everyone had the same right to marry a person of the same race, right?

But then those awful activist judges violated state rights by saying that such interracial marriage bans were unconstitutional due to something called discrimination.

Modern societies, for whatever reason, now regard discrimination as a bad thing. People oddly think think that there shouldn’t be any discrimination based off race or gender. That pesky equality thing and all those dumb rules are really inconvenient.

But seriously, partially innate sexual orientation doesn’t even need to be added as a protected class. When a man can marry Sally but a woman can’t marry Sally based off gender alone as the one determinant factor between the two scenarios, then that is gender discrimination in a nutshell. No way around that.

The only way to “STOP gay marriage now!” (as stated in the thread’s title) would be to:
  1. Get rid of all legal recognition of marriage, so that no one will have civil marriage rights, thus technically abiding by the standard of equality (and this would be the small government/libertarian approach).
OR
  1. Require all married couples to produce children as a condition of their marriage, thus making the civil institution fundamentally unavailable to same-sex couples.
Failure to achieve either of these things will only ensure same-sex marriage recognition throughout the most developed nations of the modern world. It’s only a matter time.

Just take a look at the statistics in the United States.

54% of Americans support marriage equality.
59% of American Catholics support marriage equality.
58% of American women support marriage equality.
50% of American men support marriage equality.
55% of Generation X support marriage equality.
68% of Millennials support marriage equality.

And now that same-sex marriage has become essentially commonplace, the next generation, when eventually polled, will probably have their support around 75%. Such trends cannot be meaningfully reversed.

Trying to defy the tides to social progress is futile. Those efforts are better spent elsewhere, toward something productive that might actually improve society and strengthen the family.

But by all mean, speak out against same-sex marriage in favor of archaic discrimination practices. It doesn’t really matter at this point. In five short years, marriage bans will be inevitably struck down throughout more and more countries, including the entire United States. At such a point, the opinions of the opposition will become permanently irrelevant and inconsequential.

And I’m not going to judge such opinions or the people who hold them. If some people think that discrimination should be enshrined the law of the land, then those people should still be treated with respect, civility, and common decency even if their views differ from the public’s view and national values. I feel, however, it is important for these people know that they are in a rapidly shrinking minority, and the laws will soon no longer reflect their beliefs on this matter.

This is important to acknowledge, since it would be a shame if these people wasted a moment of their lives fighting a losing battle, under the delusion that they could feasibly achieve victory. But they have the freedom and the right to continue in such a pointless pursuit if they so choose. They must be allowed to do what they think is right, and I certainly respect their conviction. But, for those who choose to stay in the fight against equality, please don’t get your hopes up. You’ll only end up being disappointed.
Same sex “marriage” and interracial marriage are not comparable. 🤷

Again, you are making arguments based on majority thinking and historical inevitability. The future isn’t written in stone. But even if things do go that way, it matters not what percentage of the population insists on redefining marriage to be something it is not. That definition would still be wrong. You cannot change what marriage is anymore than you can change what photosynthesis is.
 
And now that same-sex marriage has become essentially commonplace, the next generation, when eventually polled, will probably have their support around 75%. Such trends cannot be meaningfully reversed.
Same sex “marriage” and interracial marriage are not comparable.

Again, you are making arguments based on majority thinking and historical inevitability. The future isn’t written in stone. But even if things do go that way, it matters not what percentage of the population insists on redefining marriage to be something it is not. That definition would still be wrong. You cannot change what marriage is anymore than you can change what photosynthesis is.
GenerationZ is not against CC teachings rather he is pointing to the likely ubiquitousness of SSM. Anti-SSM activists are welcome to take whatever legal actions they desire but the CC should at the least be thinking about how they will welcome or reject SS couples and their children.
“On the whole, the extreme reactions to these unions, whether compromising or uncompromising, do not seem to have facilitated the development of an effective pastoral programme which is consistent with the Magisterium and compassionate towards the persons concerned.”
Source: Major Vatican Document…
 
GenerationZ is not against CC teachings rather he is pointing to the likely ubiquitousness of SSM. Anti-SSM activists are welcome to take whatever legal actions they desire but the CC should at the least be thinking about how they will welcome or reject SS couples and their children.

Source: Major Vatican Document…
“How” is the question, and it can have to do with objectively invalid heterosexual unions, too. If a man abandons his first wife and their children in order to marry a second wife and has children with her, how does the Church handle that? The situation isn’t “just something that happened,” as if he were struck by lightning. Compassion has to balance with rejection of his decision to abandon his family and his vows to his first wife in order to indulge his personal desires. Still, his children from the second union have needs, too. It is a very difficult situation.
 
“How” is the question, and it can have to do with objectively invalid heterosexual unions, too. If a man abandons his first wife and their children in order to marry a second wife and has children with her, how does the Church handle that?
Maybe EasterJoy you should read up on what the Catholic stance is on gay marriage. Your arguing more out of feelings not moral certitude.
 
Maybe EasterJoy you should read up on what the Catholic stance is on gay marriage. Your arguing more out of feelings not moral certitude.
What am I arguing? Is saying that there are pastoral questions raised with regards to how to handle various irregular family situations an argument? :confused:
 
What am I arguing? Is saying that there are pastoral questions raised with regards to how to handle various irregular family situations an argument? :confused:
As a Catholic your arguing/discussing non moral points. Homosexual marriage is both not accepted by the Catholic Church and by God in the Holy Scriptures (Bible). It is by moral law that we must go against unholy unions which call themselves a marriage. Yes, unholy! A feeling of love may be what may make them unite but Marriage still remains for the holy union of a man and a women. It’s Catholic. Your Catholic so doesn’t mean you have to believe in it right now. Perhaps in time you might acknowledge the beauty of Christ’s Church and Word. 🙂
 
What am I arguing? Is saying that there are pastoral questions raised with regards to how to handle various irregular family situations an argument? :confused:
But no questions about the morality of the situations
 
But no questions about the morality of the situations
I think I’ve been fairly clear in this thread on the morality of pretending that marriage can exist between persons of the same sex. There isn’t a need to re-visit that every single time I post.
 
As a Catholic your arguing/discussing non moral points. Homosexual marriage is both not accepted by the Catholic Church and by God in the Holy Scriptures (Bible). It is by moral law that we must go against unholy unions which call themselves a marriage. Yes, unholy! A feeling of love may be what may make them unite but Marriage still remains for the holy union of a man and a women. It’s Catholic. Your Catholic so doesn’t mean you have to believe in it right now. Perhaps in time you might acknowledge the beauty of Christ’s Church and Word. 🙂
The Church isn’t too keen on the practice of abandoning a valid marriage in order to use civil marriage laws to pretend it is possible to raise an adultery to the status of marriage, either.
 
The Church isn’t too keen on the practice of abandoning a valid marriage in order to use civil marriage laws to pretend it is possible to raise an adultery to the status of marriage, either.
Sorry, EasteJoy, I don’t quite follow!
 
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