Let's talk about homily topics

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Tis_Bearself

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So yesterday the priest decided to give one of those sermons on topics that I would rather not hear.
His points were okay, he didn’t say anything wrong or not in keeping with the Church, but at this point in my life when I am dealing with the terminal illnesses of two people I know and the past deaths of a few other people and handling my own anxiety, I don’t really want to hear about other people’s nursing home deaths, brain aneurysms, cancer, or even the fact that some people the priest named off got married or baptized, which I think is wonderful but it brings up more memories for me I’d rather not deal with at Mass where I was really hoping to hear the priest talk about stuff Jesus said.

One of those homilies where I just had to tune out for 10 minutes so my nerves wouldn’t get to a point of my needing to step out of the church.

I really wish priests and deacons wouldn’t preach these kinds of overly personal homilies full of tragedies, or even full of celebrations where the priest names off his favorite people/ parish buddies (I along with many other people will never be any priest’s parish buddy), but I accept that maybe they help someone else.

I like when priests and deacons explain stuff from the Scripture and give us new insights in how to apply it to our own lives, especially when it’s one of those readings that someone who goes to Mass has likely heard a couple hundred times and you’re trying to look at it with fresh eyes again and get something out of it.

What kinds of homilies do you like?
What do you dislike? (Please be charitable, the priests and deacons work hard.)
 
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I am blessed in my parish that two of the three priest at my parish give very good homilies. The third one is good, I suppose, but his demeanor puts me to sleep.

The two that I do prefer have quite different styles. One does as you wished @Tis_Bearself! and relates what he says to the readings by way of using quotes from saints or scholars and personal example. The pastor is more brief, and more direct in his telling of our faults or failings or successes, as related to the day’s readings. Both of them include themselves using the word we when speaking, and never use the word you.
 
To balance it out, I will give example of a really good homily a deacon gave last week. He talked about how if there was anyone we needed to make peace with to just consider reaching out to them (this related to a theme of forgiveness in the Scripture for a week ago Sunday). It was just what I needed to hear as there is someone I needed to say a few words to. I was so moved that I started to cry (quietly) in the church and then texted the person right there in the church (I just didn’t feel I could wait as I have been putting this off for years). I told the deacon afterwards “Good homily”. The person did write back later as well.
 
I’m lucky in that both our priests aren’t much given to personal stories, jokes, or examples but rather focus on one of the readings. I very much appreciate that. One of the two priests tends to speak at a very basic level but he almost always recommends a Bible reading and meditation for us for the week, and I follow up with doing that. The other priest typically seems to speak more directly to where I am in the spiritual life and he focuses on Jesus’ words more often than not, issuing a challenge for us for the week. So yes after what seems like a lifetime of boring or non focused homilies, I’m currently lucky in this parish. Could be worse, as they say here.
 
The young priest in my parish gave a good homily on the parable of the workers in the vineyard. He connected that to the work that we are supposed to do to spread the Gospel and help to build God’s kingdom here on earth. He concluded by saying that we should be thankful to have been sought out and invited, like those laborers were, to work in the vineyard.
 
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When, in my graduate coursework, I learned about homiletics in the Catholic (and non-Catholic!) context, I learned a few interesting things:
  • the way Christians of various traditions approach homilies is vastly different! (For example, Catholic clerics-in-training tend to be taught to go with five-to-eight-minute homilies, whereas many Reformation communities would be offended at such a ‘short’ sermon. The lines along which they develop their homilies differ, too: some go with “emotion and the inspiration of the Spirit”, while others go with “academic-style discourse”.)
  • Catholic clerics these days tend to be taught a formula along these lines:
    • identify the lessons in the Scripture readings and in their contexts
    • talk about the relevance of these lessons in the present day and in the community in which the Mass is taking place (i.e., you can legitimately get two completely different takes in one Church in one part of town, and one in a different part of town).
    • point the congregation toward the Eucharist in the context of the discussion at hand
  • Not all Catholic priests and deacons currently in ministry learned this approach. Some were trained merely to give ‘sermons’ on topics of their own choosing.
  • Not all Catholic priests and deacons are equally talented as homilists. It’s a role with a variety of skill-sets: discerning a relevant theme; development of that theme; presentation of that theme in the context of a speech delivered live in front of a large congregation.
  • Not all Catholics in the pews are in the same space, either. A scintillating homily for one person might be the most boring, irrelevant dreck to another.
I don’t envy preachers their task; it’s a daunting one.

(For me, I appreciate hearing homilies that are based on the Scriptures. The problem is, though, that in general, Catholics aren’t familiar enough with the Scriptures in order to get to the step of “explain how the lesson in Scripture is relevant to you today”; we tend to need the remedial “Bible study” approach, in which the text is explained thoroughly before we can even start hearing why it’s relevant to us today!)
 
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Gorgias said:
Catholic clerics these days tend to be taught a formula along these lines:
  • identify the lessons in the Scripture readings and in their contexts
  • talk about the relevance of these lessons in the present day and in the community in which the Mass is taking place (i.e., you can legitimately get two completely different takes in one Church in one part of town, and one in a different part of town).
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This is what I was taught in homiletics classes at the Reformed seminary as well, and what I try to do. (They obviously left out the “pointing to the Eucharist” bit).

Another big piece of advice I try to remember is to pick out one single of the many themes a Gospel reading suggests, and stick to it for dear life, not giving in to the temptation to say just a brief word about this and that other ones (“A good homily should be like the TV show “Dallas” : if your audience metaphorically misses out one episode, they should still be able to get your story”, as a teacher put it 🤣)
Gorgias said:
many Reformation communities would be offended at such a ‘short’ sermon
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That varies hugely depending on context.

In France, a Reformed minister is expected to speak for about 20 minutes.

In Switzerland, I’d get in trouble if I allowed myself to get carried over the 15 minutes mark – I’m expected to aim for 10 minutes at most, 7-8 minutes being the “sweet spot”.

It’s quite different in Evangelical communities.
Tis_Bearself said:
What kinds of homilies do you like?
What do you dislike?
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As a parishioner, I like homilies which help me see the readings differently, and get me thinking. Once in a while I am blessed enough to hear one which resonates exactly with what is going on in my life and helps me take a step forward. Sometimes I do tune out, mostly when the homily is just a boring rehashing of the readings (just not as well told) or a Bible study (that’s not what homilies are for, however interesting the Bible study is), or when the content is so wildly “out there”, or outright heretical, that it makes me angry (which happens almost exclusively at Reformed services 😅).
 
I think the priest was just trying to relate, and not to offend. I understand why you were not very fond of the homily, though. In his defense, he probably thought giving a personal story brought the reality of the Gospel closer to people.
 
I like a variety of homilies. Honestly, during election time, I think it is appropriate for priests to teach the faithful how to properly form their conscience in regards to voting. I think homilies about the historicity of the Bible are necessary at all times, but especially around Easter and Christmas to help Catholics be able to reflect on the reality of these events and to learn how to defend them from common secular skepticism. Teaching true Christian charity should be at the heart of every homily, even if it means preaching about the tougher teachings of the Church.
 
It likely worked for some people. There are some who are really moved by hearing the emotional stories of others, even when they themselves are going through a bad time. For me it was unexpected overload.
 
I would love to hear homilies peppered with saint quotes, episodes of Church history, anything beyond the basics. But realistically, I am not going to get that from my parish priest or deacon. So I turn to EWTN, CAF and book reading for that 😇
 
I hope I am not gate-crashing this thread, as a non-Catholic and not really belonging to any particular church at the moment. However, the topic strikes a cord with me. Since the lockdown, I have been tuning in to a live-streamed Mass on Youtube, from our local Catholic cathedral. It has been a great source of comfort and inspiration to me during these hard times. The bishop, who was the abbot of a Benedictine monastery before he was appointed bishop of the diocese, usually officiates at this Mass, and his homilies are wonderful. He always focuses on the Scripture reading, linking it with the other two Bible readings, explaining the context within the times they were written and relating it to the context of our time. He gives insights into how this Scripture might be applied to our lives, and as you put it so well, Tis_Bear, such insights do make us look at a very familiar passage with fresh eyes and get something new out of it. These homilies are the kind that I would love to go back and hear again or read, as they provide such food for thought. It helps, of course, that this bishop is a gifted speaker, but he also seems very kind and humble which I think shines through in his manner.

In my experience of homilies, I’m not keen either on the overly personal ones that you describe, Tis_Bear. Also, I suppose because of my circumstances, I am a bit sensitive about homilies that seem to assume we are all strong and energetic. I’m sure I am not the only one who is struggling just to get through each day, not exactly able to go out and change the world. I remember too in one Espicopal church that I used to attend, this young Ministry student was giving the homily and telling us all how we fell into the trap of worshipping things like job security and making lots of money. Well, maybe this applied to some of the people there, but for myself I was just trying to make ends meet in my low-paid care job. Of course, I appreciate that even with these kind of homilies, the intention is good and the subject will probably speak to some people, if not to me.
 
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One priest I know, who is actually my favourite priest, typically starts off with the topic of the Gospel reading and then either expands the topic, maybe by saying, back in Jesus’ time people believed this or that and he makes a mini history or philosophy lesson out of it, always in the end coming back to what it means to us today. Either that or he goes onto a tangent about a more meta-topic, such as what is love or what is forgiveness or what is a sacrament, and he might well build in a couple of quotes from Greek philosophers or famous poets who you wouldn’t normally hear quoted from the pulpit. So I find that all very refreshing. Sometimes he just says, today is the day of Saint [some totally unknown and obscure saint] and he goes on to tell the story of that saint and in some way connects that to both the gospel reading and to something that is relevant in the here and now.

Fortunately he doesn’t tell those flowery personal anecdotes that many priests seem to be so fond of. Maybe that’s why he is my favourite priest.
 
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Procla said:
in one Espicopal church that I used to attend, this young Ministry student was giving the homily and telling us all how we fell into the trap of worshipping things like job security and making lots of money.
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My reaction to this would be wondering how job security and making good money is a bad thing. As I’ve said before, I grew up in an economically depressed area. While I’m not going to do sinful things just to keep a job and make money, not all of us are cut out to live the life of St. Francis either, nor has God required everyone to do that. I’ve noticed a lot of people who push that sort of view come from a well-off background and they don’t experience economic need in the same way that people do who are trying to make ends meet or seeing their neighbors do that.

Now if he meant that we would somehow put another person on a pedestal because they had a secure job and lots of money, while looking down on the poor person, then I could see his point.
 
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You can’t really tell by looking at parishioners if they are engaged or not. I’m often one of those sleepyheads because 8 am is not the time of the day when I’m bright-eyed and bushy-tailed to do anything, including but not limited to Mass; yet I don’t currently have many other options for Mass times, since most of the noon and afternoon Masses I would frequently attend have been cancelled due to COVID. I am still quite able to hear what the priest is saying even if I don’t look attentive.
 
Absolutely. I think this young student minister came from a very comfortably-off background, and was certainly not living like St Francis when he made these comments about people worshipping money etc. Easy to disparage the value of a well-paying, stable job when you’ve never had to worry about where the next pay-cheque is coming from.

In that church there was also a tendency to talk about helping ‘the poor and vulnerable’ in a way that I felt lumped such people together somehow, without much recognition that there might be people right there in the congregation who were struggling in some way. That was just the feeling I had, anyway … possibly I was being over-sensitive.

Oh well, hopefully the young man will have gained some broader pastoral experience and a better understanding.
 
Procla said:
In my experience of homilies, I’m not keen either on the overly personal ones that you describe, Tis_Bear. Also, I suppose because of my circumstances, I am a bit sensitive about homilies that seem to assume we are all strong and energetic. I’m sure I am not the only one who is struggling just to get through each day, not exactly able to go out and change the world. I remember too in one Espicopal church that I used to attend, this young Ministry student was giving the homily and telling us all how we fell into the trap of worshipping things like job security and making lots of money. Well, maybe this applied to some of the people there, but for myself I was just trying to make ends meet in my low-paid care job. Of course, I appreciate that even with these kind of homilies, the intention is good and the subject will probably speak to some people, if not to me.
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I look at it this way; sometimes the homily will reach somebody else out there perfectly and somebody like me less directly.

When I used to go to one particular Mass with my mother, this Mass was considered a “family Mass” and the homily might touch on a topic relevant to “young adults.” Once the priest addressed any young men who might feel a calling to the priesthood; another time he focused on what it might mean to be a confirmed Catholic; for example, not going to a certain movie with your friends because it might not be appropriate for Catholics.
 
Beryllos said:
The young priest in my parish gave a good homily on the parable of the workers in the vineyard. He connected that to the work that we are supposed to do to spread the Gospel and help to build God’s kingdom here on earth. He concluded by saying that we should be thankful to have been sought out and invited, like those laborers were, to work in the vineyard.
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Interesting; sometimes a homily can focus on either of two themes.

The homily at the EWTN Sunday Mass this Sunday focused on something like this, our role in spreading the Gospel.

Another Catholic radio show this week discussing the parable of the workers in the vineyard focused on the fact that God’s ways not always being our ways. That is, we shouldn’t be resentful that some workers got the full day’s work for working less than a full day. The priest gave another example, the “good thief” who received salvation from Jesus Christ at the last minute while others work hard all our lives to be good Catholics.
 
Homilists in general work hard on their homilies. Some of them have a gift for it. Some do not. Some preach about things that resonate with me. Some touch other people. I hope I have never confused a priest or deacon whose preaching was aimed at someone else for a poor homilist.
Our deacon and priest get many compliments for homilies that don’t appeal to me at all.
 
Mi_Rose said:
Homilists in general work hard on their homilies
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As far as I know there are websites and publications were they can go to get ideas. You can’t expect a human to be original all the time and it is legitimate that they use such aids. But great homilists sometimes go beyond that and also use their own inspiration.
 
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