Let's talk about reincarnation and karma

[huck]

Suppose you were investigating a religious leader to determine what he was teaching his followers. You have no preconceived ideas of what he taught. You were standing near him when you see one of his disciples run up to him and ask (concerning a man who was blind from birth) “why was this person born blind” and the two possibilities presented were that his parents sinned or that he sinned (in a previous life). Do you agree that the second option involves reincarnation and/or karma? If so would you naturally assume that the religious leader believed and taught his disciples these principles since it’s illogical for a disciple to ask a question on a topic if the teacher hasn’t taught that the principal is true?

 

[Trishie]

Of course there are consequences for sin, and for our actions, the actions of others…there is cause and effect everywhere in our lives, there is no cause to invent Karma

Neither the Bible nor the Chuch accepts reincarnation.
The quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church below references reincarnation.
For more about life and death, you may like to read the rest of this particular section
For the rest

1013 Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed,586 we shall not return to other earthly lives: "It is appointed for men to die once."587 There is no “reincarnation” after death.

God bless you

 

[pianistclare]

No such thing as reincarnation.
People in long ago eras equated illness with punishment from God.
It isn’t.

 

[Vico]

Suppose you were investigating a religious leader to determine what he was teaching his followers. You have no preconceived ideas of what he taught. You were standing near him when you see one of his disciples run up to him and ask (concerning a man who was blind from birth) “why was this person born blind” and the two possibilities presented were that his parents sinned or that he sinned (in a previous life). Do you agree that the second option involves reincarnation and/or karma? If so would you naturally assume that the religious leader believed and taught his disciples these principles since it’s illogical for a disciple to ask a question on a topic if the teacher hasn’t taught that the principal is true?

Well some people believe in just one incarnation but in the resurrection of the body, and others more bodies or even the soul taking on animal forms successively, but not the latter in the Catholic faith. Yet others speak of multi-location, and we know that Jesus does that in Heaven and in the Eucharist presence.

American Heritage Dictionary

karma: Sanskrit – deed, action that has consequences, karma ; see kwer- in Indo-European roots.
Read more at http://www.yourdictionary.com/karma#MjMHpl7QZSeeljgz.99

 

[pianistclare]

If one believes in Reincarnation, they are not Christian.
Christians believe in the resurrection of the body, not a whole new life with a totally different identity.
If they do, they are not Christian. Nothing in Scripture or from Sacred Traditions, or Church History or Church Fathers supports this.

 

[rossum]

Of course there are consequences for sin, and for our actions, the actions of others…there is cause and effect everywhere in our lives, there is no cause to invent Karma

Karma is precisely cause and effect. The Sanskrit original is karma-phala, which translates as “action-result”. Actions have results:

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox.

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves.

– Dhammapada 1:1-2

Or alternatively, “As you sow, so shall you reap.”

rossum

 

[Trishie]

Karma is precisely cause and effect. The Sanskrit original is karma-phala, which translates as “action-result”. Actions have results:

I’m aware of that.
It remains true that cause and effect isn’t an argument for Karma, certainly not for Christians.
Christianity has always help that effect follows cause, without making it a matter of ‘tit for tat’ mentality.
In Christian understanding of cause and effect, forgiveness is possible and can mitigate effect.

 

[rossum]

In Christian understanding of cause and effect, forgiveness is possible and can mitigate effect.

There is no equivalent of forgiveness with karma; it operates like gravity: once the action is taken (throw a stone straight up) then the consequences cannot be avoided (the stone hits you on the head). The good news is that the hells are not eternal, so the consequences do not last forever. As a corollary, the heavens are not eternal either. Neither good nor bad consequences are eternal. With karma, finite actions have finite consequences.

rossum

 

[openmind77]

If one believes in Reincarnation, they are not Christian.
Christians believe in the resurrection of the body, not a whole new life with a totally different identity.
If they do, they are not Christian. Nothing in Scripture or from Sacred Traditions, or Church History or Church Fathers supports this.

A Muslim once told me something similar. He said if someone believed in reincarnation, then they were not a true Muslim. In fact he said that if the Mahdi or the Christ returned some day and said that reincarnation was true, he would stop being a Muslim, because that would mean the Koran was wrong and not the true word of God.

Do you feel the same way? If somebody like the Christ came back and said reincarnation was true, then you would stop following ALL Christian Scripture and traditions?

 

[Vico]

Trishie:

In Christian understanding of cause and effect, forgiveness is possible and can mitigate effect.

There is no equivalent of forgiveness with karma; it operates like gravity: once the action is taken (throw a stone straight up) then the consequences cannot be avoided (the stone hits you on the head). The good news is that the hells are not eternal, so the consequences do not last forever. As a corollary, the heavens are not eternal either. Neither good nor bad consequences are eternal. With karma, finite actions have finite consequences.

rossum

True, forgiveness of sin is for the guilt of sin with eternal consequences, and satisfaction of penance and indulgences is for the temporal punishments, but we suffer with the other current effects of our actions, and these are most like the concept of karma.

True for some karma, based upon the Vedic types of karma:

1. Prarabdha - The consequences of actions you performed in previous lifetimes, destined to play out in this life.
2. Kriyamana - The karma you’ve generated since taking birth in your present body.
3. Adhyatmika - The karma you create as an individual.
4. Adhibhautika - The karma created by groups of people (e.g., your family, community, nation).
5. Adhidaivika - The cyclic destiny of the Earth itself and its natural forces (e.g., volcanoes, tornadoes, earthquakes).

Some karma can be altered per this theory. As a practice, in India, there are various remedies taken to modify karma from past life actions, so there is the concept of changing past bad karma, especially prayer, and sacrifices.

If one does not accept reincarnation but accepts the concept of karma, then that would leave just that remaining kind of present karma that could be altered.

 

[ChunkMonk]

If someone like the Christ came back and preached against the Gospel we would know he is the anti-Christ and not Christ at all and we would become even more affirmed in our Faith in the Scripture.

 

[De_Maria]

… If so would you naturally assume that the religious leader believed and taught his disciples these principles since it’s illogical for a disciple to ask a question on a topic if the teacher hasn’t taught that the principal is true?

It is true that some of the Jewish leaders were teaching heresy. This is probably why the disciples brought this up. But Jesus did not teach that.

 

[huck]

It is true that some of the Jewish leaders were teaching heresy. This is probably why the disciples brought this up. But Jesus did not teach that.

Suppose again that you have no idea what my beliefs are. Were talking and a person walks by. I then tell you that I believe that he is actually my great grandfather who died who died 80 years ago. Would you assume that I believed in reincarnation?

 

[stpurl]

Are you going to tell us that actually Great Grandpa is a time-traveler?

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

It is true that some of the Jewish leaders were teaching heresy. This is probably why the disciples brought this up. But Jesus did not teach that.

Suppose again that you have no idea what my beliefs are. Were talking and a person walks by. I then tell you that I believe that he is actually my great grandfather who died who died 80 years ago. Would you assume that I believed in reincarnation?

Yes …

 

[huck]

Hello De_Maria,
MAL 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Jesus was preaching to a crowd who most likely had varying viewpoints of the afterlife. He was referring to John the Baptist when he said to the crowd; MT 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

 

[De_Maria]

Hello De_Maria,
MAL 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Jesus was preaching to a crowd who most likely had varying viewpoints of the afterlife. He was referring to John the Baptist when he said to the crowd; MT 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

He was explaining the typography. Not reincarnation. St. John came in the spirit of Father Elijah.

In Christianity, we have many forerunners in the Old Testament which were fulfilled in the New. For example, Adam, Moses and King David were types of Christ. Eve and Rebecca, types of Mary. Joseph of the house of Potophar a type Joseph of the House of Christ.

These are not reincarnations of the people, but types and shadows which foreshadow the coming of the New Covenant:

Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

I hope that helps.

 

[Jamie5]

This is a perfect example, and hilarious, sketch about reincarnation and karma.

 

[huck]

He was explaining the typography. Not reincarnation. St. John came in the spirit of Father Elijah.

Suppose for some reason you are attending a non Catholic church service. You have no idea what the beliefs are of either the preacher or the congregation. He begins preaching about Malachi and quotes MAL 4:5 “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD”. Then he says and if ye will receive it, John the Baptist was Elias, which was for to come. No mention of him coming in the spirit of Elijah. Would you assume that the preacher believed in reincarnation?

 

[De_Maria]

Suppose for some reason you are attending a non Catholic church service. You have no idea what the beliefs are of either the preacher or the congregation. He begins preaching about Malachi and quotes MAL 4:5 “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD”. Then he says and if ye will receive it, John the Baptist was Elias, which was for to come. No mention of him coming in the spirit of Elijah. Would you assume that the preacher believed in reincarnation?

The key is in your words, “You have no idea what the beliefs are of either the preacher or the congregation.”

Since you keep repeating the same question, you must be in that dilemma. Anyway, the way to resolve that dilemma is to learn what the Church Teaches and what it doesn’t.

You don’t sound Catholic, so you might be under the impression that we are people of the book. But we are not. We are people of the Word of God as it is Taught by the authority which Jesus Christ established to pass on His Word throughout the world and throughout time. Namely, the Catholic Church.

So, you can keep repeating the same question and I’ll repeat the same answer. But where is that getting us, really?