Let's talk about today's readings 1/5/09

[cheeto1]

usccb.org/nab/readings/090105.shtml

Texas roofer, I love your link, and I mean to start putting it
at the start from now on. Thanks!!

1st reading – Has anyone ever tested any spirts, to see if they belong to God? I haven’t even encountered spirts, let alone tested them. That is, I know I have encountered them, but I
never knew it. A person may acknowledge Jesus in the flesh,
but do they acknowledge Him as God? I have seen that both
mormon and jehovah witness do not. Yet both of these are
striving for holiness, and doing their best to serve the Lord.
I also know a hindu family. They worship other gods, but
acknowledge that God is Lord of all. They, too, are living in love.
And then you have those who acknowledge Jesus is Lord and
man. Yes, we need to be tested too, because though we know
everything, we struggle to live in love.

Psalm – Who is the Lord speaking to? Jesus, king david, Israel,
all 3? Again I insist there is a promise that no nations will be left who do not acknowledge that Jesus is Lord.

In the gospel, people from many lands are coming to Jesus and acknowledging Him, as they do today. I expect this process to
continue until all have come to the Lord, but in the end it seems
impossible. If it would really come true, then there would be no
Armegeddon.

Today is the day of St. John Neumann who prescribed the 40
hours devotion officially. I learned something new here
catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0120.html
This practice is the start of modern day adoration
of the Eucharist. The most surprising part of the article to me
was that originally, people were relieved in 40 hour intervals!
It’s usually one hour today, and that’s a long time.

So what struck you about today’s readings?:bible1:

 

[Light_Seeker]

Has anyone ever tested any spirts, to see if they belong to God? I haven’t even encountered spirts, let alone tested them.

Aquinas & others define *spirits *as teachings & doctrines of others, & subject them to what the apostles have taught as they were first hand witnesses.

I’ve had several Protestant apologists ask, by this verse, if we could examine Catholic beliefs. Sure. They then try to fit things in with sola scriptura, ignoring the Tradition the Apostles speak of. Duh.

A person may acknowledge Jesus in the flesh,
but do they acknowledge Him as God? I have seen that both
mormon and jehovah witness do not.

Don’t forget Muslims. They see Jesus as a prophet, but not God. That the cross was actually Judas with Jesus doing a mass hypnosis And don’t forget Jews either.

Yet both of these are
striving for holiness, and doing their best to serve the Lord.
I also know a hindu family. They worship other gods, but
acknowledge that God is Lord of all. They, too, are living in love.
And then you have those who acknowledge Jesus is Lord and
man. Yes, we need to be tested too, because though we know
everything, we struggle to live in love.

I don’t believe that living in love, as you attest, is a sign of following the true God. I don’t believe persecuted martyrs would agree with you either. A commandment we follow, as they may, but not a sign of worshiping the true God.

They may have a path to salvation, just not complete.

 

[cheeto1]

Don’t forget Muslims. And don’t forget Jews either.

I don’t believe that living in love, as you attest, is a sign of following the true God.

Muslims have several times a day for prayer, and stick to it,
even if in the bank or store when the time comes!

And the Jews are God’s chosen people, I would never forget
them!

But what about us? We have already traveled down the
correct road and discovered the true Jesus, but how are
we at loving? Some people are great at following the only
true commandment, love. They just don’t understand Jesus yet.

Some of these are doing God’s will more than we who know
everything and have constant access to the one true faith.
They have a humble spirit, cause harm to no one, and give
out love. They’ve just got the cart before the horse.

“they will know you are My followers by your love for one another”

 

[Light_Seeker]

We have already traveled down the
correct road and discovered the true Jesus, but how are
we at loving? Some people are great at following the only
true commandment, love. They just don’t understand Jesus yet.

Some of these are doing God’s will more than we who know
everything and have constant access to the one true faith.
They have a humble spirit, cause harm to no one, and give
out love. They’ve just got the cart before the horse.

“they will know you are My followers by your love for one another”

Point well taken!!

During my college years, I had several close atheist friends. Most loving, humble people you could imagine - but godless. You would never know this unless specifically asking their viewpoints on religion. They were the true definition of the antiChrist in today’s readings.

Is not loving & being humble a learned human trait, actually a personal social responsibility, that most religions just happen to embrace?

 

[LMP]

You all are forgetting about GRACE. The grace of God, the Father.

He has placed the law within them and wrote it upon their hearts. No longer will they have need to teach their friends and kinsmen how to know the Lord. All, from least to greatest, shall know God. God forgives evildoing and remembers sin no more.

If not for grace, no living thing would have a chance.

 

[LMP]

usccb.org/nab/readings/090105.shtml

1st reading – Has anyone ever tested any spirts, to see if they belong to God? I haven’t even encountered spirts, let alone tested them. That is, I know I have encountered them, but I
never knew it. …So what struck you about today’s readings?:bible1:

Yes, I was college age and I was hypnotized. The evil spirit was after my subconscious and was messing with my self-image. It was a total misuse of psychological method. It was what I call cult tactics. Somewhere deep down, I had the strength to test it and challenge it. I suggested to the spirit that I would like to and wished to do something other than what the spirit was telling me to do. The spirit had one royal fit, cast me away from the environment and shunned me repeatedly, and then eventually, when it thought that I was broken, offered to take me back.
I didn’t go back. And that was that. I was clear and free.

Afterward, I was tons wisher and to this day can recognize manipulation right away. I hate to say this, but I saw (and occasionally see) manipulation in the RCC. It was never on the scale as my younger experience. Yet, religious vocations must teach psychological method in their schools. I can see where a religious professional may have to know this to help people who are seeking emotional counsel, but to use it outside of the counseling chamber …I’ve seen it overused and hangs on the verge of being manipulation. This is not good, nor wise.

 

[Light_Seeker]

You all are forgetting about GRACE.

Oh.

Uh, Duh.

Thank you LMP for smacking me with a 2 x 4 with the most primary concepts when I need it!

 

[LMP]

“they will know you are My followers by your love for one another”

Just quoting you so an email pops up in your box.

Regarding Turkey…Saint Basil…and Basil’s place of bishophood (Caesarea-Mazaca or Kayseri, Turkey in the
Anatolia province…

Guess who is the Turkish President? Abdullah Gul
And guess where he hails from? Yes, Basil’s stomping ground!

This area has been called the heart-bed of Islamic Calvinism.
(the “protestant” form of Islam)

There has been a flurry of activity from the capital of Turkey
(Ankara) to get the Gaza situation under control and ceased. Every high level of the Turkish government is off and meeting with
everyone they can…UN, Sarkozy (now visiting Syria), the European Union…and Hamas leaders themselves.

There is a problem of late, though. Russia decided to stop
gas flow into Turkey because of a “price problem”. (How
coincidental?) And, of course, savior Iran is offering
to increase gas flow from their country to Turkey
(How nice?) as Iran officials are visiting Turkey (as we
speak) to give them Ahmadinejad’s message.

I swear Russia and Iran are working in tandem. It is to Iran’s
advantage to have Hamas and Israel go at for a long, long time.
Already moderate Jordon is on radical Islam’s side to the tune
of about 60,000 “converts”.

Then Silobreaker reported today that the powerhouse vessels of the Russian navy are visiting Akzas Karagac, the big Turkish naval base, this week. They just “stopped by” to invite maneuvers together. This is not good. To me this means,
“Turkey, you better be on our side if the s-h-*-T hits the fan, otherwise you’re in big trouble. Stay in line.”

There is also this problem with a thing called Armenian genocide. Evidently, Israel is on the side of Turkey over this charge. The rest of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) is putting pressure on Turkey to “not be friends” with the enemy.
Some commentators are saying because of this, Turkey will
not be able to help a cease fire in Gaza.

The fact that Sarkozy is in Syria now, maybe this will be the
bridge and not Turkey. Turkey knows that their hands are
somewhat tied.

 

[123069]

Here’s my thought:

Commentary on 1 Jn 4:7-10

This wonderful selection from St. John’s first letter is a summary of the Apostle’s major contribution to our understanding of God as revealed through his only Son. The exhortation to love one another is repeated frequently throughout the author’s Gospel and his letters. The idea that “God is love” is central to our understanding of God and Christ. In this short passage we see not only a glimpse of God’s intent in sending Jesus to the world as a proof of his love for us through “…the expiation of our sins” but our own imperative as Christians to love one another in imitation of him

Commentary on Mk 6:34-44

The feeding of the five thousand is the only miracle of Jesus that is presented in all four gospels. The reason for that may be that it was seen as anticipating the Eucharist and the final banquet in the kingdom (Matthew 8:11; 26:29), but it looks not only forward but backward, to the feeding of Israel with manna in the desert at the time of the Exodus (Exodus 16), a miracle that in some Jewish expectation would be repeated in the messianic age (2 Baruch 29:8). It may also be meant to recall Elisha’s feeding a hundred men with small provisions (2 Kings 4:42-44).

We note the numeric symbolism used in St. Mark’s account; the five loaves and two fish combined to give seven – the most complete number, and the fragments collected at the conclusion of the meal fill twelve baskets, one for each of the twelve tribes of Israel. The Gospel author’s audience which was predominately Jewish would have seen the story as a fulfillment of the historical tradition from which they came.

---

Reflection:

Those blessed with an abundance of faith are at a disadvantage when events like the “Feeding of the Five Thousand” are presented. They see the symbols presented; the fish representing the Greek word “Icthos” used as a password for Christian because the first two letters were the initials of Jesus the Christ. Those who have unwavering faith see instantly the Eucharist represented in the bread and how the Lord gives not just food to those thousands but gives himself. They are disadvantaged because the miracle may have lost some of its awe in their eyes – it has become too obvious.

Those who have no faith whatsoever are much worse off. They see this event as some sort of magic trick or they think there is a logical explanation or even worse, they believe it is a fabrication, a lie perpetrated by the Gospel authors to support the Jesus story.

Somewhere in between a majority of us find ourselves. We are confronted with a story that requires us to accept that the Lord God can step outside our normal experience and do things that we cannot comprehend. We don’t like to admit it when we run into situations that are just totally beyond us. Yet here, recounted in all four Gospels, (and not just once in each of the four but twice in Matthew and Luke) is a story that tests our faith in God’s extraordinary ability to respond to his creation through his Son.

Offsetting this miracle is what many of us might find an even greater revelation. The purpose behind this massive proof of God’s existence and power is a simple demonstration of His love for us. We see this fact expressed by St. John the Apostle who distills the events down to their most fundamental level. Did the Lord feed the five thousand to prove his heritage or that God had sent him? Did he tell the multitudes in that place “Oh, just so you know I am the Messiah, I will now cause these five loaves of bread and two fish to multiply themselves so you can all have a nice meal”?

No, Christ came from God who is love, as the ultimate symbol of love. He came because up to that point, the Hebrews, to whom God first made his presence known, had come to understand the Father as a God of justice, one of vengeance, attributed with the all too human need for retribution and violence. Christ came to change that misguided impression. He came out of God’s passionate love for his adopted children. He sent his Son so that the choices made by mankind could be revised and through Jesus, offered as a sacrifice of atonement, we might have access to our loving Father.

However we see the story of the “Feeding of the Five Thousand”; whether we accept it without question or whether we struggle with our human logic, we must see it as one more symbol of God’s love for us. The imperative is that, for that love to be most beneficial to us, it must be shared. The Lord showed us that example in the loaves and fishes as well.

Pax

 

[LMP]

Mark 6 :34 “His heart was moved with pity for them”
Ezekiel 34 The Parable of the Good Shepherd I myself will pasture my sheep
Mark 8 My heart is moved with pity for the crowd

Who is he talking about?

Luke 2:10 The angel says: Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you good news of great joy that will be for ALL the people…A savior has been born for you.

The word for today is ALL

 

[cheeto1]

Here’s my thought:

Commentary on 1 Jn 4:7-10

This wonderful selection from St. John’s first letter is a summary of the Apostle’s major contribution to our understanding of God as revealed through his only Son. The exhortation to love one another is repeated frequently throughout the author’s Gospel and his letters. The idea that “God is love” is central to our understanding of God and Christ. In this short passage we see not only a glimpse of God’s intent in sending Jesus to the world as a proof of his love for us through “…the expiation of our sins” but our own imperative as Christians to love one another in imitation of him

Commentary on Mk 6:34-44

The feeding of the five thousand is the only miracle of Jesus that is presented in all four gospels. The reason for that may be that it was seen as anticipating the Eucharist and the final banquet in the kingdom (Matthew 8:11; 26:29), but it looks not only forward but backward, to the feeding of Israel with manna in the desert at the time of the Exodus (Exodus 16), a miracle that in some Jewish expectation would be repeated in the messianic age (2 Baruch 29:8). It may also be meant to recall Elisha’s feeding a hundred men with small provisions (2 Kings 4:42-44).

We note the numeric symbolism used in St. Mark’s account; the five loaves and two fish combined to give seven – the most complete number, and the fragments collected at the conclusion of the meal fill twelve baskets, one for each of the twelve tribes of Israel. The Gospel author’s audience which was predominately Jewish would have seen the story as a fulfillment of the historical tradition from which they came.

---

Reflection:

Those blessed with an abundance of faith are at a disadvantage when events like the “Feeding of the Five Thousand” are presented. They see the symbols presented; the fish representing the Greek word “Icthos” used as a password for Christian because the first two letters were the initials of Jesus the Christ. Those who have unwavering faith see instantly the Eucharist represented in the bread and how the Lord gives not just food to those thousands but gives himself. They are disadvantaged because the miracle may have lost some of its awe in their eyes – it has become too obvious.

Those who have no faith whatsoever are much worse off. They see this event as some sort of magic trick or they think there is a logical explanation or even worse, they believe it is a fabrication, a lie perpetrated by the Gospel authors to support the Jesus story.

Somewhere in between a majority of us find ourselves. We are confronted with a story that requires us to accept that the Lord God can step outside our normal experience and do things that we cannot comprehend. We don’t like to admit it when we run into situations that are just totally beyond us. Yet here, recounted in all four Gospels, (and not just once in each of the four but twice in Matthew and Luke) is a story that tests our faith in God’s extraordinary ability to respond to his creation through his Son.

Offsetting this miracle is what many of us might find an even greater revelation. The purpose behind this massive proof of God’s existence and power is a simple demonstration of His love for us. We see this fact expressed by St. John the Apostle who distills the events down to their most fundamental level. Did the Lord feed the five thousand to prove his heritage or that God had sent him? Did he tell the multitudes in that place “Oh, just so you know I am the Messiah, I will now cause these five loaves of bread and two fish to multiply themselves so you can all have a nice meal”?

No, Christ came from God who is love, as the ultimate symbol of love. He came because up to that point, the Hebrews, to whom God first made his presence known, had come to understand the Father as a God of justice, one of vengeance, attributed with the all too human need for retribution and violence. Christ came to change that misguided impression. He came out of God’s passionate love for his adopted children. He sent his Son so that the choices made by mankind could be revised and through Jesus, offered as a sacrifice of atonement, we might have access to our loving Father.

However we see the story of the “Feeding of the Five Thousand”; whether we accept it without question or whether we struggle with our human logic, we must see it as one more symbol of God’s love for us. The imperative is that, for that love to be most beneficial to us, it must be shared. The Lord showed us that example in the loaves and fishes as well.

Pax

Hello? Is there a moderator in the house? Could you please
move this outstanding post to “Let’s talk about today’s readings
1/6/09”? It’s posted in yesterdays readings. Is that possible?
Thank you…

 

[cheeto1]

Is not loving & being humble a learned human trait, actually a personal social responsibility, that most religions just happen to embrace?

Sure, I go along with that, but, I do believe the power of love
comes from God. If we have it, we can thank Him, not just
our religion or social training. There’s this line from some
Rich Mullins song: “some people are friendly, but they never
would be your friend”. Once you spend a little time with
someone, you can see if it’s just good manners or not. And
some people just have so much love, all you have to do is look
at them to see it. All the love in the world is coming from God,
that is my firm belief. Far from being antichrist, that person is
going to find out the Truth. This is the will of God, and our job
is not to get in His way.

 

[cheeto1]

Guess who is the Turkish President? Abdullah Gul
And guess where he hails from? Yes, Basil’s stomping ground!

This area has been called the heart-bed of Islamic Calvinism.
(the “protestant” form of Islam)

Wow, I never heard of Islamic Calvinism. What would protestant Islam mean? I rather think of protestantism as church without the Eucharist. What would be a simple way to think of Islamic Calvanism? You certainly have a vast knowledge of world governments.

 

[LMP]

Wow, I never heard of Islamic Calvinism. What would protestant Islam mean? I rather think of protestantism as church without the Eucharist. What would be a simple way to think of Islamic Calvanism? You certainly have a vast knowledge of world governments.

This isn’t my term. It is a phrase coming out of Turkey itself.
It means pro-free market or pro-business. Some people think that Calvinism was the true root to capitalism.

 

[Light_Seeker]

This isn’t my term. It is a phrase coming out of Turkey itself.
It means pro-free market or pro-business. Some people think that Calvinism was the true root to capitalism.

Came out of a think tank named ESI (European Stability Initiative) on a paper by Gerald Gnaus. Term gives heartburn to many fundamentalist Muslims.

 

[LMP]

Came out of a think tank named ESI (European Stability Initiative) on a paper by Gerald Gnaus. Term gives heartburn to many fundamentalist Muslims.

Thanks. I heard the term but didn’t know where it came from.
Yes, you are right. The “fundies” aren’t happy about anything
that isn’t under their control.