Let's Talk Judaism!

[notsmart]

Why are there Jewish prayers for the dead?

Because there is nothing wrong in doing so.
(no, I am not jewish, just giving my take)
the better question is why don’t protestants do this when Jesus’ family must have done this also, and the bible does not tell us NOT to do so.

 

[inJESUS]

Who or what is the Holy Spirit in Jewish thought?

 

[Hisalone]

Because there is nothing wrong in doing so.
(no, I am not jewish, just giving my take)
the better question is why don’t protestants do this when Jesus’ family must have done this also, and the bible does not tell us NOT to do so.

I thought Vals answer very telling. For me it further weakens the Roman position not strengthening it.

 

[notsmart]

I thought Vals answer very telling. For me it further weakens the Roman position not strengthening it.

If you say so. I say it only makes much, much more sense.
But, if you want to argue it, lets leave Valke’s thread alone. Post in apologetics, and I will try to find it. Maybe.

 

[Valke2]

I understand that Judaism teaches that the “righteous of all nations” have favor with God.

Is this Biblical, or did this come about due to Christian and Muslim persecution of Jews?

It is in the Talmud that all righteous people have a share in the world to come. I think you can pin it to about 400 CE, give or take. I don’t know what prompted this inclusion but it is unavoidable conclusion is that Judaism does not have an exclusive on Divine Truth.
The Talmud tractate where this appears is Sanhedrin 105 a.

Rambam said something similar, but he conditioned it upon the following of the Noahide Laws. Rambam was 11th century (I think) and his reasoning may very will have taken into consideration the actions of christians and muslims. Because the Noahide laws if followed would ensure that Jews would not be persecuted.

 

[Valke2]

When the Messiah, as you believe, will be born, how will you be able to proove that he really is from the Davidic line?

Are anti-Christian passages from the Talmud still present in the teaching of Judaism or have they been cancelled?

Answering the second question first. The Talmud is a multi vol. set of legal codes, parables, stories, and assorted teachings. On many issues it contains both the opinon we currently follow and the minority opinion. THere are passages that were removed from fear of retaliation by the Church way back when. In many recent editions they have been put back in. Having said that, it has been my experience that many of these passages that are quoted on various web pages are often completely false or misquoted or opinions expressed by some rabbi but not part of the Talmud.

I have no idea how we will know when the Messiah comes if he will be from the house of David. My guess is that he will so clearly be the Messiah that we will take his lineage on faith.

 

[Valke2]

Who or what is the Holy Spirit in Jewish thought?

That’s a difficult question. I’m going to go with it being as aspect of God. One of God’s attributes, which is really a fiction we use because one cannot actually comprehend the attributes of the infinite. Such as His Glory. It is also associated at time with prophetic visions.

 

[inJESUS]

That’s a difficult question. I’m going to go with it being as aspect of God. One of God’s attributes, which is really a fiction we use because one cannot actually comprehend the attributes of the infinite. Such as His Glory. It is also associated at time with prophetic visions.

so you do not define it as a creature, but rather an essence of God, without defining it as a “person” like we do, but rather an impersonal “power” or attribute. right?

 

[pr_catholic]

Why do you guys decided to call yourselfs jews instead of before the deportation of Babylon called the israelites? As I understand it it seems that even israelites of other tribes used this name to refer to all of the nation. By default, by the time of Rome the word jew associated to your beliefes/religion and call it judaism. I can imagine if it was the other way around today we would call it israelism Do you guys have any tradition about when the changes came about?

 

[Valke2]

so you do not define it as a creature, but rather an essence of God, without defining it as a “person” like we do, but rather an impersonal “power” or attribute. right?

yes. It is one of the ways in which God’s presence is felt or understood.

 

[inJESUS]

yes. It is one of the ways in which God’s presence is felt or understood.

like the Shekinah right ?

 

[Valke2]

Why do you guys decided to call yourselfs jews instead of before the deportation of Babylon called the israelites? As I understand it it seems that even israelites of other tribes used this name to refer to all of the nation. By default, by the time of Rome the word jew associated to your beliefes/religion and call it judaism. I can imagine if it was the other way around today we would call it israelism Do you guys have any tradition about when the changes came about?

By the time of the destruction of the Temple, all the really good names were taken.

I’m sure you know that it is taken from the tribe of Judah. King Solomon dies and Jews split into two kingdoms. Eventually, Jew referred to anyone from the kingdom of Judah. After the 6th century BCE, only the kingdom of Judah remained (the other tribes being lost) so Jew then referred to all Jews. This is how the people of the kingdom of Judah referred to themselves as well.

 

[Valke2]

like the Shekinah right ?

yep.

It’s hard to give a hard and fast answer to things like this because in Judaism they evolve over time and continue to evolve. The concept of the Shekinah for example has taken on greater importance in recent centuries with Jews. One of the advantages or disadvantages of not having a central authority in religion is that there’s a lot of room for a lot of different ideas.

 

[inJESUS]

yep.

It’s hard to give a hard and fast answer to things like this because in Judaism they evolve over time and continue to evolve. The concept of the Shekinah for example has taken on greater importance in recent centuries with Jews. One of the advantages or disadvantages of not having a central authority in religion is that there’s a lot of room for a lot of different ideas.

what about the Christian understanding? is it shared or totally refused?

 

[Valke2]

what about the Christian understanding? is it shared or totally refused?

If you mean do jews reject the christian understanding of the holy spirit, I’d have to say yes. There are some Kabalah teachings that seem to be similar to the christian belief, but they are really fundamentally different. This is one of the reasons jews are always cautious about Kabalah as there is a lot of room for “misinterpetation” (read as interpertaion in a way we don’t like).

 

[notsmart]

If you mean do jews reject the christian understanding of the holy spirit, I’d have to say yes. There are some Kabalah teachings that seem to be similar to the christian belief, but they are really fundamentally different. This is one of the reasons jews are always cautious about Kabalah as there is a lot of room for “misinterpetation” (read as interpertaion in a way we don’t like).

I can see this, because it would seem like polytheism to a non christian right?

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

How would you comment on the following?:

1. “John 19:39-40
   39 And Nicodemus also came, (he who at the first came to Jesus by night,) bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. 40 They took therefore the body of Jesus, and bound it in linen cloths, with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.”
2. “The body is given a ritual bath called a tahara, standing for purity and then the body is put in the ground in the quickest most simple fashion available with only traditional burial shrouds” i.e. covered with simple cloth and no “75 lbs aloe and myrrh” as mentioned in John 19:40.
3. “The burial customs of the Jews have not changed in 3500 years. The body is not to be touched except by giving it a ritual bath called a tahara, standing for purity and then the body is put in the ground in the quickest most simple fashion available with only traditional burial shrouds.”

Thanks

 

[notsmart]

Hi

How would you comment on the following?:

1. “John 19:39-40
   39 And Nicodemus also came, (he who at the first came to Jesus by night,) bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. 40 They took therefore the body of Jesus, and bound it in linen cloths, with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.”
2. “The body is given a ritual bath called a tahara, standing for purity and then the body is put in the ground in the quickest most simple fashion available with only traditional burial shrouds” i.e. covered with simple cloth and no “75 lbs aloe and myrrh” as mentioned in John 19:40.
3. “The burial customs of the Jews have not changed in 3500 years. The body is not to be touched except by giving it a ritual bath called a tahara, standing for purity and then the body is put in the ground in the quickest most simple fashion available with only traditional burial shrouds.”

Thanks

That would depend on what type of Jew you are talking about. I have been to Jewish funerals and the first thing here that caught my eye, was it sure the heck was not the most simple fashion available, That casket was fanicer than the Pope’s.

 

[Valke2]

That would depend on what type of Jew you are talking about. I have been to Jewish funerals and the first thing here that caught my eye, was it sure the heck was not the most simple fashion available, That casket was fanicer than the Pope’s.

Every jewish funeral I’ve been to, has a plain pine box. No varnish or metal handles or anything. The casket itself has holes in it so that the body is in actual contact with the dirt. It is possible that jews who do not follow the traditions/laws regarding burial would use a more ornate casket of course.

Snapple Judaism: Flowers are not part of a traditional Jewish funeral.

Many Jewish communities have what is called a Hevra Kadisha – a group that takes charge of the preparation and funeral arrangements and assists the bereaved. THey provide someone to be with the body at all times until burial, usually they read psalms over the body throughout the night and they prepare the body for burial. THere is a ritual cleansing of the body but I do not believe it involves the used of pounds of any herb. I’m not sure exactly what is done, but I do know that they wash the body.
with water.

 

[Valke2]

It is traditional to wash the body in preparation for burial. This process is called Taharah (Purification). Taharah is accomplished by a specially trained group of people. Not every community has a group which can do Taharah. Embalming is a violation of the Jewish tradition because it impedes the natural process of decomposition. The body, once washed, is dressed in a plain linen shroud called Tachrichim… Some people may be buried in their tallit (prayer shawl). When this is done, the tzitzit (corner fringes) are cut off, signifying that the tallit can no longer be used for prayer by this person. It is also common these days for the tallit of the deceased to be retained by the family and passed on to a living relative; another tallit, acquired for the purposes of burial, is used in its stead for burial.
scheinerman.net/judaism/life-cycle/death.html#prior