Let's talk the OFS

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Luigi_Daniele

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I’d like to discuss the OFS (secular Franciscans).

Your experiences with them (good and bad).

What’s new? For example, I know that the “call letters” have changed from SFO to OFS (thank God!). Has anything else changed?

Over to you. 🙂
 
hey Luigi, when did the letters change from SFO to OFS?

My experience with them … my RCIA sponsor is a secular Franciscan.
 
hey Luigi, when did the letters change from SFO to OFS?

My experience with them … my RCIA sponsor is a secular Franciscan.
They changed earlier this year. The Minister General sent out a letter stating that the “official” name of the order is Ordo Franciscanus Seculare, so OFS, amica mia. 🙂
 
:tiphat: Thanks for the additional wrinkle in my brain, I was not aware of that. Clearly, I live under a rock … a Benedictine rock. 😛
 
:tiphat: Thanks for the additional wrinkle in my brain, I was not aware of that. Clearly, I live under a rock … a Benedictine rock. 😛
I keep bouncing between rocks.😦

It is made difficult by the fact that I have a dear friend in the Oblates and a dear friend (actually 4) in the OFS. 😦
 
I keep bouncing between rocks.😦

It is made difficult by the fact that I have a dear friend in the Oblates and a dear friend (actually 4) in the OFS. 😦
Hi Luigi,
Secular Franciscan here too. What do you want to talk about?
 
Hi Luigi,
Secular Franciscan here too. What do you want to talk about?
Hi, amica mia 🙂

It seems to me that the OFS (at least out here) has been moving to a more “traditional” (that isn’t the exact word) Franciscanism. Less emphasis on numbers (sort of like the friars themselves, as JRed has mentioned). Am I judging this accurately?

Also, what has always bugged me a tad, is that $50/year (right?) go to higher councils, leaving the local fraternity with little or nothing. 😦
 
Hi, amica mia 🙂

It seems to me that the OFS (at least out here) has been moving to a more “traditional” (that isn’t the exact word) Franciscanism. Less emphasis on numbers (sort of like the friars themselves, as JRed has mentioned). Am I judging this accurately?

Also, what has always bugged me a tad, is that $50/year (right?) go to higher councils, leaving the local fraternity with little or nothing. 😦
Hi Luigi Daniele,

I can’t really verify what you’re saying one way or the other about traditional vs. progressive outlook overall. It’s a very mixed bag from my vantage point. I belong to a very small fraternity that’s not very active. We don’t even have meetings every month any more here, now that many people are getting older.

The thing to remember, I think, is that we’re a worldwide order so there are a lot of points of view at the global level to consider and we are a global order. The order is prospering in many parts of the world, with many young people making their professions in Asia, Africa and even Latin America, even though the picture is very, very different here in the USA. We are seeing quite the opposite. That’s one thing.

The other thing is that in the USA only, the order is really moribund. It’s a sad situation. I was professed about 15 years ago. A few years after that, I left because of that very situation. I’m back now, because I think the SFO is where I really belong. It’s very difficult because the reputation of the SFO among that small pool of people interested in religious organizations like this isn’t very good; and also being an SFO isn’t very engaging at times, frankly, due to what’s going on.

The thing to remember, also, is that it’s not about my personal satisfaction. I mean, yes, belonging to an order, even an order where you live in secularity, has the 2 goals of religious life: a) to get the person doing it to heaven, and b) to teach something to the world. But even given all of that, it’s not necessarily about my personal satisfaction in a purely emotional aka consumerist sense. I have to take some of that on faith and let God do what I know he’s promised to do.

The SFO needs people who are willing to “dig their heels in spiritually,” meaning people who are dedicated to pursuing prayer and the rule, and people who are willing to learn the tradition and the way of life and practice it. For so many years, people were just “signed up” at their parish like the order was an altar society, or a ladies’ club or something. We’re fooling ourselves if we think we can act like an order with only that kind of commitment and training. I mean, we are a real order, we need to grow up regardless of our ages, and act like it. Otherwise, it’s going to nearly die out in the US in a few years. Maybe that’s what needs to happen–pruning–for it to take off again. I don’t know.

This urging to do something sounds like the usual CAF hyperbole. I’m not talking about politics or progressive vs traditional or rah-rah-rah or anything like that. I’m talking about each SFO getting off their tired old haunches and learning to pray the liturgy of the hours and put an active and engaged hour or two into their spiritual life every single day. I’m talking about putting the TAU on where people can see it in the supermarket and letting people know in an appropriate way that there is a spiritual aspect to life, God is there, and that they don’t want to miss Him! I’m talking about having a personal reading program into the Franciscan sources that’s appropriate to each person’s learning ability and background, which varies a LOT.

Maybe this new formation program will start things rolling. I haven’t seen it, although I’m told it’s very good, which means it’s got to be dramatically better than what many fraternities have been using.
 
Hi Luigi Daniele,

I can’t really verify what you’re saying one way or the other about traditional vs. progressive outlook overall. It’s a very mixed bag from my vantage point. I belong to a very small fraternity that’s not very active. We don’t even have meetings every month any more here, now that many people are getting older.

The thing to remember, I think, is that we’re a worldwide order so there are a lot of points of view at the global level to consider and we are a global order. The order is prospering in many parts of the world, with many young people making their professions in Asia, Africa and even Latin America, even though the picture is very, very different than that in the USA. That’s one thing.

The other thing is that in the USA only, the order is really moribund. It’s a sad situation. I was professed about 15 years ago. A few years after that, I left because of that very situation. I’m back now, because I think the SFO is where I really belong.

The thing to remember, also, is that it’s not about my personal satisfaction. I mean, yes, belonging to an order, even an order where you live in secularity, has the 2 goals of religious life: a) to get the person doing it to heaven, and b) to teach something to the world. But even given all of that, it’s not necessarily about my personal satisfaction in a purely emotional aka consumerist sense. I have to take some of that on faith and let God do what I know he’s promised to do.

The SFO needs people who are willing to “dig their heels in spiritually,” meaning people who are dedicated to pursuing prayer and the rule, and people who are willing to learn the tradition and the way of life and practice it. For so many years, people were just “signed up” at their parish like the order was an altar society, or a ladies’ club or something. We’re fooling ourselves if we think we can act like an order with only that kind of commitment and training. I mean, we are a real order, we need to grow up regardless of our ages, and act like it. Otherwise, it’s going to nearly die out in the US in a few years. Maybe that’s what needs to happen–pruning–for it to take off again. I don’t know.

Maybe this new formation program will start things rolling. I haven’t seen it, although I’m told it’s very good, which means it’s got to be dramatically better than what many fraternities have been using.
Absolutely brilliant post (as usual 😉 ). I was professed 14 years ago, so we are OFS contemporaries. 🙂

Pruning is needed, without question. It got pretty ugly out here a few years back. We, too, are smaller, but I can honestly say that every member is orthodox (that’s the word I was looking for :o ), with the exception of 1. I truly think that the OFS is moving in the right (no pun intended 😃 ) direction. 🙂
 
Absolutely brilliant post (as usual 😉 ). I was professed 14 years ago, so we are OFS contemporaries. 🙂

Pruning is needed, without question. It got pretty ugly out here a few years back. We, too, are smaller, but I can honestly say that every member is orthodox (that’s the word I was looking for :o ), with the exception of 1. I truly think that the OFS is moving in the right (no pun intended 😃 ) direction. 🙂
Yes, that’s the interesting thing. Our small core of professed people are very in tune with the Catholic Church and with official Catholic teaching (the CCC and all that), with about half of them being very classical Franciscans. I mean, yes, they don’t have the formation they should have had and all, but the Lord works in them and you can see it: They’re Franciscan. It’s hard on them what’s going on.

Somehow there’s some kind of a disconnect in the American branch of the Order. I’m not sure I want to elaborate. I don’t know what to do about it either.

Except to remark on the obvious fact: You know, the Secular Franciscan order has never existed on American soil in the autonomous manner that it exists now, since the Rule of 1978. It had always been a sodality or a parish ladies’ club-like organization here up to 1978, very regional and dependent and so on. I don’t think there’s a model for how it ought to look here in the states.
 
Absolutely brilliant post (as usual 😉 ). I was professed 14 years ago, so we are OFS contemporaries. 🙂

Pruning is needed, without question. It got pretty ugly out here a few years back. We, too, are smaller, but I can honestly say that every member is orthodox (that’s the word I was looking for :o ), with the exception of 1. I truly think that the OFS is moving in the right (no pun intended 😃 ) direction. 🙂
Luigi Daniele,

Also:
Don’t get me wrong. I understand what you’re saying about right and left and all that. And I know that the right/left thing isn’t necessarily coming out of you, because to some extent, it’s been provoked. I know that because I struggled with it too, for a long time.

The point is that a religious order isn’t about politics in the American political sense. We have an obligation as SFOs to a) develop an attitude of constant conversion to God and His way of doing things, and b) to teach the world that the spiritual life is real, that God is there, and that they don’t want to miss Him.

And we have a privileged place in the world to do that, no matter the little tuggles, competition, yada yada between forms of religious life that go on. We are an order and we are secular. This gives us both a vantage point and an outreach to do the work we’re called to do. This is a great opportunity.

Does this involve going to an HHS mandate protest? Yes, it probably does. It might involve standing in front of the abortion clinic too. Does it involve occasionally emailing your congressman about taking care of the poor? Maybe if you feel the call to do that. But it includes getting to meetings and saying some prayers and behaving, too. And it involves some witness and some drudge work too. Mailing newsletters and the like to keep the fraternity going. Some learning, some reading, some thinking. And just plain encouraging and caring about people. Not talking about caring, but caring.
 
Luigi Daniele, my OFS contemporary,

I recently had an interesting experience. I went to see John Michael Talbot and learned many things. I’m NOT going to join his public association of the faithful (which is the answer to the obvious next question, LOL).

But, I understand the interest that some SFOs have in keeping one foot in another place, simply because SFO life can be so … sparse and solitary, for want of better terms to use.

Some of this stuff, newsletters and so on, are probably going to become part of my reference point, again, for want of a better term. Some people use the other emerging Franciscan-like associations of the faithful, such as the BSP for that, without actually publicly belonging to both. (Which the SFO doesn’t like–belonging to both formally, I mean.)

Do you have any additional information or comments on that?
 
Rant off. Sorry, Luigi, but you asked me what I think. There it is. :o

What about you? If you don’t mind my asking, are you going to be Benedictine or Franciscan? You don’t have to answer that if you don’t want to.
I don’t mind at all. I truly think Franciscan. The only down side is distance (1 hr away) and gas (gasoline, not me 😃 )
 
Also, what has always bugged me a tad, is that $50/year (right?) go to higher councils, leaving the local fraternity with little or nothing. 😦
Maybe this is the norm with Secular Orders?

I’m a Secular Carmelite (OCDS) and we have annual dues of approximately $50/year per member owed to the Province to cover a variety of expenses. We also make free will offerings each month that stay within the local community.

Some very interesting posts … and I’ve appreciated reading! One thing our Order really stresses is that becoming a Carmelite is a vocation … and not a club or some notch to put on one’s belt. We hit that very early in the discernment process … usually when people are first making inquiries and throughout the entirety of their visitation period which preceeds any invitation to enter aspirancy. As a result, many inquirees opt out of the process when they see what’s involved. And, from my experience in trying to foster healthy and vibrant community life, it’s far better to find this out about individuals earlier than later.

Oh, well … for what it’s worth!

I’m enjoying reading what the posters have to say and finding out more about Franciscian life …

Blessings in Christ,
Dave 🙂
 
Luigi Daniele, my OFS contemporary,

I recently had an interesting experience. I went to see John Michael Talbot and learned many things. I’m NOT going to join his public association of the faithful (which is the answer to the obvious next question, LOL).

But, I understand the interest that some SFOs have in keeping one foot in another place, simply because SFO life can be so … sparse and solitary, for want of better terms to use.

Some of this stuff, newsletters and so on, are probably going to become part of my reference point, again, for want of a better term. Some people use the other emerging Franciscan-like associations of the faithful, such as the BSP for that, without actually publicly belonging to both. (Which the SFO doesn’t like–belonging to both formally, I mean.)

Do you have any additional information or comments on that?
I do. Looked into the BSP, actually. The head is a wonderful man. First year formation is great, but they follow the 1st Rule, which is just too strict (for me) and would be disruptive to the family (no meats MWF–meaning my wife would have had to have cooked separate meals).

We used to work a soup kitchen every other month (in place of the meeting). I loved it. (Well, it was my idea 😃 ). The older members did not (interestingly these “meetings” were attended at twice the # as compared to regular meetings, though). I would like to get back to doing it at least 1-2 times per year, TBH.
 
Maybe this is the norm with Secular Orders?

I’m a Secular Carmelite (OCDS) and we have annual dues of approximately $50/year per member owed to the Province to cover a variety of expenses. We also make free will offerings each month that stay within the local community.

Some very interesting posts … and I’ve appreciated reading! One thing our Order really stresses is that becoming a Carmelite is a vocation … and not a club or some notch to put on one’s belt. We hit that very early in the discernment process … usually when people are first making inquiries and throughout the entirety of their visitation period which preceeds any invitation to enter aspirancy. As a result, many inquirees opt out of the process when they see what’s involved. And, from my experience in trying to foster healthy and vibrant community life, it’s far better to find this out about individuals earlier than later.

Oh, well … for what it’s worth!

I’m enjoying reading what the posters have to say and finding out more about Franciscian life …

Blessings in Christ,
Dave 🙂
Thank you Dave, for the information.

So our annual “head tax” is the same, about $50. That’s good to know. We have a lot of older members on fixed incomes and you know, there’s some grousing…LOL.

Yes, I’m aware that there is a long formation program for Secular Carmelites. The Franciscans have a history in this country of doing something else–something very superficial actually–and we are just coming out of that.

We have a brand new program and we’re starting to talk about vocations now instead of just “signing up” because third order membership is a vocation.

And Dave, we’re being perfectly honest here. I think Luigi and are are fairly comfortable with talking about the experience of being SFO.
 
Maybe this is the norm with Secular Orders?

I’m a Secular Carmelite (OCDS) and we have annual dues of approximately $50/year per member owed to the Province to cover a variety of expenses. We also make free will offerings each month that stay within the local community.

Some very interesting posts … and I’ve appreciated reading! One thing our Order really stresses is that becoming a Carmelite is a vocation … and not a club or some notch to put on one’s belt. We hit that very early in the discernment process … usually when people are first making inquiries and throughout the entirety of their visitation period which preceeds any invitation to enter aspirancy. As a result, many inquirees opt out of the process when they see what’s involved. And, from my experience in trying to foster healthy and vibrant community life, it’s far better to find this out about individuals earlier than later.

Oh, well … for what it’s worth!

I’m enjoying reading what the posters have to say and finding out more about Franciscian life …

Blessings in Christ,
Dave 🙂
This is what we do. What makes it a tad unbearable is that the fraternity is assessed for all members (even those that never attend or contribute). Seems unfair to me.
 
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