Let's Try This Again....Death means sleep

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Truth_Seeker123 said:
According to the Bible and if you disagree please provide scripture. If not, there is no purpose in posting without using God’s Word as proof. 🙂 PLEASE READ CAREFULLY.

Why do we (people) continue to say you go immediately to Heaven or Hell, when the Bible plainly says a person returns to the dust after he/she has died (sleep/slept)

Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be

Psalms 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Thessalonians 4:14, 15 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

If you would like to disagree, that’s fine. But please provide atleast 3 unbiased scriptures/opinion to back you answer.
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Daniel 12:2 is a clear reference to the resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked, although the etermal destiny of each will be quite different. See up to this point in time teaching about resurrection was not common, although every Israelite believed that one day he or she would be included in the restroation of the new Kingdom. This reference to a bodily resurrection of both the saved and the lost was a sharp depature from common belief. For more see Job 19:25-26. Psalm 16:10 and Isaiah 26:19.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Paul tells us that we all will be given new bodies when Christ returnes and taht these bodies will be without disabilities. Never to die or become sick. Christians alive at that day will not have to die but will be transformed immediately.

2 Peter 3:4 in the last days socffers will say that Jesus is never coming back, but Peter refutes their argument by explaining God’s mastery over time. That last days is the time between Christ’s first and second coming, so we like Peter live in the last days.

Now our bodies may go to sleep but our soul is awake. Its not our body that goes to heaven right away but our soul. When Christ returnes our bodies will be transformed and then we will go to heaven with new bodies.
 
It is not a SDA site. The site is based off of teachings of the Bible. Now if SDA doctrine is Bible based then hey…

What is it about the site that goes along with SDA teachings. Did you read over the entire site?

Its funny because I ran a search and nothing came up.
 
Our God is the God of the living and NOT the God of the dead Mark12 26=37
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
The transfiguration. Moses was resurrected, just like Jesus was resurrected. Elijah represents those who will be taken to Heaven while stile alive or the 144,000 spoken of in Revelation** if you care to read** and Moses represents those who will be resurrected also spoken of in Revelation if you care to read.

Also, again Moses died and was resurrected. He by the definition of the Bible was asleep. Just like before resurrected.

I have a link for you about Lazarus and the rich man. Do you want the link?
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Truth Seeker,
Why do you keep asking "if you care to read?"
Do you honestly believe that Catholics don’t read the scriptures? If so, you have a lot of erroneous beliefs. The question alone sounds very prejudiced.
 
I agree, SDA. If you follow the links you get to Bible Treasures website that links to Walter Veith, a Creationist Christian with ties to SDA. Indirect, but telling. He’s selling a series on Rekindling the Reformation (sounds unifying, eh?). Interesting that the site doesn’t say what faith they preach, only that they teach about Christ. Sound familiar?

Oddly enough, on his site Veith quotes CS Lewis:

“It does not matter how small the sins are provided that their cumulative effect is to edge the man away from the Light and out into the Nothing. Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick. Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one-the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.” C.S. Lewis

Perhaps Lewis really meant to say “the safest road to sleep”. :confused:

Could this all be a ruse to get the link into a Catholic Forum in the hopes of rekindling the reformation, as Veith proposes? 🤷
 
Deception, deceit, dishonesty, aren’t they all commandments that are being broken?

I’m just askin 😛
 
What are you typing in to find SDA sites because it is showing for me.

If it is coming up, how does that make me a SDA.
 
Fidelis_Unus said:
I agree, SDA. If you follow the links you get to Bible Treasures website that links to Walter Veith, a Creationist Christian with ties to SDA. Indirect, but telling. He’s selling a series on Rekindling the Reformation (sounds unifying, eh?). Interesting that the site doesn’t say what faith they preach, only that they teach about Christ. Sound familiar?

Oddly enough, on his site Veith quotes CS Lewis:

“It does not matter how small the sins are provided that their cumulative effect is to edge the man away from the Light and out into the Nothing. Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick. Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one-the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.” C.S. Lewis

Perhaps Lewis really meant to say “the safest road to sleep”. :confused:

Could this all be a ruse to get the link into a Catholic Forum in the hopes of rekindling the reformation, as Veith proposes? 🤷
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Because they are there does not mean its an SDA site or that Im an SDA. Arent SDAs affiliated with Ellen White. She’s not on there.
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
Because they are there does not mean its an SDA site or that Im an SDA. Arent SDAs affiliated with Ellen White. She’s not on there.
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really? Because, out of thousands of SDA, they don’t link to one of them, they must not be SDA? What kind of logic is that? They DO link to Veith, who is afficliated with SDA. The site is clearly SDA. If I may ask, if they are teaching the Truth, why do they hide who they are until they’ve gotten people caught up in their “teaching”? How can you find salvation when it’s based on lies and subterfuge?
 
That is the conclusion I have come to also. I have submitted five posts to this thread trying to engage the original poster in a conversation, but he is unable to dialogue. Not good form. And certainly not the mark of a TRUTH Seeker.

***You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
John 8:32

*** Test all things, hold fast to what is true. **** 1 Thessalonians 5:21

Buy truth, and do not sell it, Get wisdom and instruction and understanding. **Proverbs 23:23
“All truth is God’s truth, insofar as it is true.” ***
Augustine, Aquinas…
 
Fidelis_Unus said:
really? Because, out of thousands of SDA, they don’t link to one of them, they must not be SDA? What kind of logic is that? They DO link to Veith, who is afficliated with SDA. The site is clearly SDA. If I may ask, if they are teaching the Truth, why do they hide who they are until they’ve gotten people caught up in their “teaching”? How can you find salvation when it’s based on lies and subterfuge?
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I am not of the SDA faith, so I cannot answer that.

I read my Bible.
 
graceandglory said:
That is the conclusion I have come to also. I have submitted five posts to this thread trying to engage the original poster in a conversation, but he is unable to dialogue. Not good form. And certainly not the mark of a TRUTH Seeker.

***You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
John 8:32

*** Test all things, hold fast to what is true. ****** 1 Thessalonians 5:21

Buy truth, and do not sell it, Get wisdom and instruction and understanding. Proverbs 23:23
“All truth is God’s truth, insofar as it is true.” ***
Augustine, Aquinas…
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As I have stated before. If you want to talk to me, send me a pm
 
I wasn’t responding to you. I said to send me a pm because it is hard to keeping responding directly to everyone. By having a one on one convo, I can direct my attention to that person and no one else.

How about this. If what they say is Truth why not give it to me in a pm to make sure that I have the right interpretation (that is the duty of the church isn’t it), because in a thread I could easily overlook it and not even realize it was there. Especially with so many people responding to me at once.
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
What are you typing in to find SDA sites because it is showing for me. If it is coming up, how does that make me a SDA.
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Contrary to your name, you will not identify your faith after numerous requests, not allowing for honest, clear debate. Therefore, it is left to us, if were want to understand where you are coming from or to discern your intent is, based on the very limited information that you provided. The site you gave has links to SDA; direct and indirect, though you mock us for thinking it’s an SDA site. Either you were drawn in to an organization unwittingly or, since you mock us for thinking it is part of the SDA organization, this is all part of a campaign designed to draw people into SDA beliefs without (surprise) being honest about identifying who they are. Sounds like a familiar theme. Based on your comments and behavior, it’s the most logical assertion.

Why the subterfuge? and what exactly are you trying to accomplish, 'cause it sure as heck isn’t honest dialogue.

You;'ve ignored the (non-denominational) historical information regarding the Bible or taking advantage of the availability of the Catholic BIble online. If I may suggest, perhaps if you were to actually read the Catholic Bible comparisons and then, if you have specific questions, come to CA to clarify and discuss them? Many here will be happy to do so. I’ve seen some heated, yet healthy debate here (with agnostics, atheists, Lutherans, you name it), but they all start with being open and honest). Otherwise I doubt any further discussion will be fruitful, other than, perhaps, to give opportunity to support eachother in Church teaching.

In the meantime, I think this thread is fading fast.

God’s best to you, may He guide your search and draw you nearer to His love. :gopray2:
 
Luke 16:19-31

19 There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores, 21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. 23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: 24 And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. 25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. 27 And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren, 28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. 29 And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

The rich man was in hell and Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham while the rich mans descendants were still alive, so death is not sleep in the way we know it.

End of discussion
 
Did you just not get to the 24 instances of Hell in the Bible that I posted? Or do you just not like those verses? Surely not all of them could be “wrong”.
 
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