Letter concerning the dress of young women at my university

[Memaw]

I read your letter several times, and, it does come off as preachy. That is not to say that nothing can come from this. Just some suggestions as to what I would do. I would eliminate the part about yourself being chaste and about how so many young men just do not care, because those parts can easily turn people off. Just say that, you have noticed the immodesty on campus and that it can pose a problem to young men and that a Catholic university should have higher standards.

To give your letter a bit more weight, I would go find some fellow students who share your concerns, both male and female. Getting female students on board is especially important because it is hard for women to empathize with men when it comes to modesty and this letter would be more easily dismissed if only males voiced their concerns, particularly if whoever reads this letter is a woman. If you say that you are speaking on behalf of fellow students, than the reader would be more likely to believe that this is a serious problem than if one person brought it up. Maybe, include somethings that they say or a generalization of some of their thoughts and concerns.

And, I do not think you should include the part about Fatima. It is not Revelation required to be believed by all Catholics and the Scripture passage would carry more weight.

Those are just my suggestions. Thank you for trying to bring about a change on your campus.

I don’t understand why it bothers so many to bring up Our Lady of Fatima and what she said to the 3 children for OUR benefit. It HAS been approved by the Church as “Worthy of Belief” Of course it is not Public Revelation but still WORTHY of belief. All the Popes since 1917 have spoke and referred to it sooo many times, it is just plain foolish for us to brush it off like it means nothing. She came to help us. We may sincerely regret not listening!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

Good for you in what you are saying, Latinas. You probably didn’t realize that when someone tries to uphold modesty on a catholic answers forum, some people will immediately begin attacking you. I have seen this happen time and again here. Perhaps they are the same people each time. You should know though that some people will agree with you. Good for you for your good standards. You shouldn’t be discouraged for believing in modesty.

AMEN, God Bless, Memaw

 

[Sarcelle]

Thank you all for your points; they are sincerely helpful.

I’m not even sure I’ll send a letter, since, being a young man, it is a bit awkward for me to do this. Again, this was a counselor’s idea.

But, even if I do, I’ll take your points to heart, especially the part about men dressing modestly, since this is actually point I often think about.

Thank you again,
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

You may also want to send a joint letter. Ask other students, both male and female for their (name removed by moderator)ut.

I am sure you are not the only student with this concern.

 

[fred_conty]

I believe I would send a letter to the head of administration asking him/her for their policy on the dress code at their university as other universities have. Or how and from whom I may obtain one.

This will get their attention and put the monkey on their back.

May God our Father give you grace and peace.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Overall I did like the letter, but I admit I share the view that the part about Fatima may not be the strongest argument available, since as I understand, Fatima is not binding upon Catholics. My wife knows about Fatima, but frankly I’ll listen to what others say but I don’t use Fatima in any of my own discussions.

MS

 

[Memaw]

Overall I did like the letter, but I admit I share the view that the part about Fatima may not be the strongest argument available, since as I understand, Fatima is not binding upon Catholics. My wife knows about Fatima, but frankly I’ll listen to what others say but I don’t use Fatima in any of my own discussions.

MS

Why so many insist on falling back on that lame excuse about Fatima, I don’t understand. It is not public revelation, but like I said before it is “worthy of belief,” as the Church has declared! To ignore the Mother of Our Savior when GOD sends her to us, is rather foolish, I would say. Lourdes is “worthy of belief” too and just ask those who have been cured to brush Her aside as unimportant!!! See what they say! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Why so many insist on falling back on that lame excuse about Fatima, I don’t understand. It is not public revelation, but like I said before it is “worthy of belief,” as the Church has declared! To ignore the Mother of Our Savior when GOD sends her to us, is rather foolish, I would say. Lourdes is “worthy of belief” too and just ask those who have been cured to brush Her aside as unimportant!!! See what they say! God Bless, Memaw

Believe what you want. I’m just talking strategy.

If your goal is to influence the opinions of others, why choose to call upon authorities to back up your argument, that only a subset of the people accept, and is not even required organizationally to be believed in?

That’s all I’m saying. “Worthy of belief” doesn’t sound like, “required to believe this” to me, so why use authorities that don’t necessarily apply to everyone in the room?

Look I have no problem with the letter the way it was. I just happen to agree that the Fatima part does not authoritative speak to his entire audience, so it may not be the strongest supporting item of his point.

MS

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

God be praised, I have, through all of the temptations of life, by the grace of God, done my best with great success, to remain chaste. Nevertheless, my heart extends to all those young men who really do struggle with chastity, and for whom, the immodest dress of a young woman is a severe temptation.

I’m a young man and I’m proud to say I don’t need your help and don’t see my hormones as a problem nor a disease to be cured.

Besides, you want a severe temptation? I have the severe temptation to laugh every time I see a full body burqa. Same goes for really tacky mantillas.

 

[Gliggle]

lol, you remind me of Mr Collins from Pride and Prejudice “I flatter myself…” Maybe you should read that book by the way if you haven’t already.

But seriously, you claim to have so much concern for the males of your campus, but demonstrate none at all for the women; they live in a world that judges them by appearances alone, with pressures you will never understand, and now you too have decided to judge them by appearances.

Also if you really believe the immodesty in the world is such an issue, try being a little more modest yourself the women are probably just as proud of their God-made beautiful bodies as you appear to be of your apparent virtue. Your display in this letter is no different from theirs.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Besides, you want a severe temptation? I have the severe temptation to laugh every time I see a full body burqa. Same goes for really tacky mantillas.

I’m not sure what you mean. It seems to me that’s about as far as one can go for modesty so I don’t know why it’s funny unless you think “being in style” is a consideration that others must follow lest they be thought of as “comical.”

But if lack of “style” makes a woman an object of your humor, would their knowing that not tempt them to cast aside the burqa for something a little more “popular,” like – for example – something immodest?

Better not let them know you think they are funny when they are not immodest.

MS

 

[on_the_hill]

Aside from the fact that OP seems to be channeling Paul, or at least his writing style–

My other suggestion, other than to focus on being a student, is that the letter be edited way down. It’s too long. A busy college administrator doesn’t want to read a long letter from someone he or she doesn’t know. Cut it down to a couple sentences, and conclude with ‘I know you’re very busy, etc. etc., thank you for considering my concerns, and if you would like to discuss this further, please contact me…’

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’m not sure what you mean. It seems to me that’s about as far as one can go for modesty so I don’t know why it’s funny unless you think “being in style” is a consideration that others must follow lest they be thought of as “comical.”

Consideration? Sorry, don’t care much for any norm myself, religious or otherwise. I’m just honest about what looks ridiculous to me. You wanna dress up like a pillow, that’s your right. I have a right to keep laughing.

On further reflection, one can even equate dress and styles along the burqa’s lines to be the pious equivalent of the emperor’s new garb.

But if lack of “style” makes a woman an object of your humor, would their knowing that not tempt them to cast aside the burqa for something a little more “popular,” like – for example – something immodest?

Indeed. That’s exactly what I hope for. Folks can call me shallow till their throats grow hoarse, but I’d rather be honest and admit ‘immodest’ clothing motivates me more to appreciate the woman I’m approaching.

Better not let them know you think they are funny when they are not immodest.

Thanks for proving my ultimate point that there’s nothing really helpful about what women wear in the first place.

 

[MissRose73]

I still say appropriate dress along with a degree of modesty is needed. It needs to be preached about by our priests and taught as part of religious education classes. Parents need to also lead by example by not buying immodest clothing and insist on clothing for family members that is both appropriate & modest to the occasion/place.

 

[Memaw]

I still say appropriate dress along with a degree of modesty is needed. It needs to be preached about by our priests and taught as part of religious education classes. Parents need to also lead by example by not buying immodest clothing and insist on clothing for family members that is both appropriate & modest to the occasion/place.

I agree 100%, especially parents taking responsibility for what they wear and what they allow their children to wear. God Bless, Memaw

 

[severus68]

I’m a young man and I’m proud to say I don’t need your help and don’t see my hormones as a problem nor a disease to be cured.

Besides, you want a severe temptation? I have the severe temptation to laugh every time I see a full body burqa. Same goes for really tacky mantillas.

Lol. Good one.

 

[severus68]

lol, you remind me of Mr Collins from Pride and Prejudice “I flatter myself…” Maybe you should read that book by the way if you haven’t already.

But seriously, you claim to have so much concern for the males of your campus, but demonstrate none at all for the women; they live in a world that judges them by appearances alone, with pressures you will never understand, and now you too have decided to judge them by appearances.

Also if you really believe the immodesty in the world is such an issue, try being a little more modest yourself the women are probably just as proud of their God-made beautiful bodies as you appear to be of your apparent virtue. Your display in this letter is no different from theirs.

Well said.

 

[severus68]

Hi everyone,

Well, I’m back at college for my sophomore year, and I was really struck today at the immodesty with which the women dressed (this is supposed to be a devout Catholic college, which it is many ways). I’m not normally the one to nitpick at the way people dress, but the short-shorts and the tight clothing are a real problem. I myself don’t have a problem with masturbating, pornography etc. (thank God, not me). After talking to a counselor on campus who shared my concerns (a woman, by the way), I decided to write a letter, and I wanted to see what the people here thought. I’ve redacted my name as well as that of the university for privacy.

Here is the letter:

[Univesity Address]

Dear [The Unversity]

As a student at your university, I can say that I am more than pleased with the university, because so many aspects of the university excelled my expectations. The most important aspect of the school, to me, at least, is its Catholic identity. [The university] prides itself (rightly) on being a very devout university, which faithfully holds and teaches the Magisterium of the Catholic Church without compromise, and, in point of fact, is among the best at doing so.
It is for this reason, however, that I would a like offer a suggestion of concern of mine related to the University’s Catholic identity. I admire the fact that the university does not seek to oppress students and in doing so, eliminate all talent and individuality; nevertheless, this past year (2013-2014), I was struck by the lack of modesty on the part of many of the female students. God be praised, I have, through all of the temptations of life, by the grace of God, done my best with great success, to remain chaste. Nevertheless, my heart extends to all those young men who really do struggle with chastity, and for whom, the immodest dress of a young woman is a severe temptation. I firmly recognize that this is not the fault of the university, but on the part of the young women who wear such clothing. I further recognize that, alas, many men do not care at all about purity, and are content to lust after women with no remorse of conscience. Again, such is not the fault of [the unversity], but of those men who lust. I do however, on account of those men need the help, wish to recommend that the university adopt a reasonable dress code for students – at least to class as well as Mass. I understand that there are swimming pools and other leisurely activities on campus in which one can dress casually, and in this there is no sin. However, very revealing and/or tight clothing cannot be modest. Our Lord warns them who tempt others to sin very sternly (Cf. Matt. 18:6, Mk. 9:42, Lk. 17:2). The Blessed Virgin in her apparition at Fatima warned that many fashions will be introduced that will offend Jesus Christ very much. It is thus in keeping with the Faith that women (and men) should dress decently, especially around those of the opposite sex.
I want emphasize again, that I do not in any way blame the university of the vices of the students who attend, and I offer this suggestion only in such a way as to help the already very Catholic spirit on campus flourish. By requiring modesty from students, [the unviersity] will do what is for the greater glory of God, and for the salvation of men.

In the peace of Christ,
[Latinitas]

I sincerely appreciate any comments and criticisms, if they’re not disparaging.

Thanks,
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

You are young and probably feel the need to jump in and try to change things.
You will be going out into the world soon. You will never be able to control what other people wear.

Please concentrate on your studies, exercise self control, look at all women as people, as God’s children, make a real difference by volunteering at soup kitchens etc. In the horrors to be found in the real world, dress is the least to be concerned about.

If you have to send the letter, Fatima is a private revelation and that portion about our Lady’s so called comments on dress is not even found on the Vatican’s site on Fatima.
God blss.

 

[Memaw]

You are young and probably feel the need to jump in and try to change things.
You will be going out into the world soon. You will never be able to control what other people wear.

Please concentrate on your studies, exercise self control, look at all women as people, as God’s children, make a real difference by volunteering at soup kitchens etc. In the horrors to be found in the real world, dress is the least to be concerned about.

If you have to send the letter, Fatima is a private revelation and that portion about our Lady’s so called comments on dress is not even found on the Vatican’s site on Fatima.
God blss.

Many things are not found on the Vatican site. But that doesn’t make them not true. You seem to be stuck on that. Study up on Fatima and maybe you will learn about it. It must be VERY important to God to have His Mother warn us about Fashions, even if you don’t think so !! Our Lady also said “More souls go to Hell for sins of the flesh than for any other reason.” Immodesty promotes these sins. Those kids of sins are rampant in our world today. We are responsible for tempting others to sin. Like it or NOT. God bless, Memaw

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Many things are not found on the Vatican site. But that doesn’t make them not true. You seem to be stuck on that. Study up on Fatima and maybe you will learn about it.

And apologists wonder why we’re accused of virgin goddess worship.

 

[Sarcelle]

You are young and probably feel the need to jump in and try to change things.
You will be going out into the world soon. You will never be able to control what other people wear.

Please concentrate on your studies, exercise self control, look at all women as people, as God’s children, make a real difference by volunteering at soup kitchens etc. In the horrors to be found in the real world, dress is the least to be concerned about.

If you have to send the letter, Fatima is a private revelation and that portion about our Lady’s so called comments on dress is not even found on the Vatican’s site on Fatima.
God blss.

I see two schools of thought regarding modesty discussions in this forum.

The first is a Catholic position which views the human being as beings of dignity and we are responsible for acting and dressing like beings of dignity.

Another seems to agree with the world, especially when it comes to modesty and women. The world says women are sex objects and should be displayed and treated as such. This is not the Catholic position obviously.
Then there are some modesty proponents who agree, yes agree, that women ARE sex objects and should be hidden away, or dressed for maximum concealment lest they tempt the vulnerable men to sin.