Letter concerning the dress of young women at my university

[Memaw]

I see two schools of thought regarding modesty discussions in this forum.

The first is a Catholic position which views the human being as beings of dignity and we are responsible for acting and dressing like beings of dignity.

Another seems to agree with the world, especially when it comes to modesty and women. The world says women are sex objects and should be displayed and treated as such. This is not the Catholic position obviously.
Then there are some modesty proponents who agree, yes agree, that women ARE sex objects and should be hidden away, or dressed for maximum concealment lest they tempt the vulnerable men to sin.

And where do you stand??? I am one of your “modesty proponents” and I don’t believe I ever said anything like 'women are sex objects or that they should be hidden away, or dressed for maximum concealment." I have been modest all my life and I have always dressed neatly. When mini skirts came out, and you couldn’t buy anything else, I started wearing pant suits. Today, many women DO dress like sex objects. If you look like a duck, well maybe you are a duck. You can’t tell me they don’t know who they are trying to impress! And even worse, they allow their young girls to do the same. Agreeing with the “Catholic position” is the right way to be and I will stand by that sincerely. We can’t have it both ways. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Sarcelle]

And where do you stand??? I am one of your “modesty proponents” and I don’t believe I ever said anything like 'women are sex objects or that they should be hidden away, or dressed for maximum concealment." I have been modest all my life and I have always dressed neatly. When mini skirts came out, and you couldn’t buy anything else, I started wearing pant suits. Today, many women DO dress like sex objects. If you look like a duck, well maybe you are a duck. You can’t tell me they don’t know who they are trying to impress! And even worse, they allow their young girls to do the same. Agreeing with the “Catholic position” is the right way to be and I will stand by that sincerely. We can’t have it both ways. God Bless, Memaw

My post was not addressed to you specifically.

Yes, you are in agreement with the the Catholic position of modesty as am I.

However there are modesty proponents out there who DO have this position of women as sex objects. I should know. I’ve had the misfortune to meet them.

 

[Memaw]

My post was not addressed to you specifically.

Yes, you are in agreement with the the Catholic position of modesty as am I.

However there are modesty proponents out there who DO have this position of women as sex objects. I should know. I’ve had the misfortune to meet them.

That’s all the more reason women should dress attractively but yet modestly. If we don’t respect our own bodies, how can we ever expect others to. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Sarcelle]

That’s all the more reason women should dress attractively but yet modestly. If we don’t respect our own bodies, how can we ever expect others to. God Bless, Memaw

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[InNomineDomini]

But seriously, you claim to have so much concern for the males of your campus, but demonstrate none at all for the women; they live in a world that judges them by appearances alone, with pressures you will never understand, and now you too have decided to judge them by appearances.

It is odd to think that we should utterly ignore the appearance of any individual we meet, or that we should in some way restrain ourselves from being influenced by appearances. Therefore I’m not convinced by your reprimanding this boy on the grounds that he’s “judging” the girls at his university based on how they dress. Of course he’s making judgments on such grounds: he’s human.

I also find it odd that folks are so quick to defend the way girls often dress, and so adamant that lust is always the fault of a boy.

Why can’t we have it both ways? Let the Catholic girls be taught to dress using sane principles informed by Catholic moral teachings on sex, and let the boys be taught to perceive girls in a way that’s grounded in the same moral teachings.

There will always be men who could get turned on simply by looking at a shoe, and there will always be women who make it awfully difficult to be seen as anything other than a near occasion of sin. Trying to find a balance between these two – and restraining from doing things like putting the word modesty in scare quotes – is hardly some sort of bizarrely psychotic behavior.

Finally, those who called this young boy’s letter preachy: well, I quite disagree. I see the zeal and enthusiasm of a young man who takes his faith seriously, not the self-righteousness of a fully developed and adult personality that’s utterly absorbed with itself. This young man might very well grow up to be a priest, and his vocation may be expressing itself in teenage ways at present. Give him a break.

 

[Memaw]

It is odd to think that we should utterly ignore the appearance of any individual we meet, or that we should in some way restrain ourselves from being influenced by appearances. Therefore I’m not convinced by your reprimanding this boy on the grounds that he’s “judging” the girls at his university based on how they dress. Of course he’s making judgments on such grounds: he’s human.

I also find it odd that folks are so quick to defend the way girls often dress, and so adamant that lust is always the fault of a boy.

Why can’t we have it both ways? Let the Catholic girls be taught to dress using sane principles informed by Catholic moral teachings on sex, and let the boys be taught to perceive girls in a way that’s grounded in the same moral teachings.

There will always be men who could get turned on simply by looking at a shoe, and there will always be women who make it awfully difficult to be seen as anything other than a near occasion of sin. Trying to find a balance between these two – and restraining from doing things like putting the word modesty in scare quotes – is hardly some sort of bizarrely psychotic behavior.

Finally, those who called this young boy’s letter preachy: well, I quite disagree. I see the zeal and enthusiasm of a young man who takes his faith seriously, not the self-righteousness of a fully developed and adult personality that’s utterly absorbed with itself. This young man might very well grow up to be a priest, and his vocation may be expressing itself in teenage ways at present. Give him a break.

AMEN and thank you! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Gliggle]

Yes I was a little bit harsh, but I think he spoke very harshly about women by calling them at fault, and I really wanted him to understand they are people too. I know it sounds crazy to some, but I feel a lot of “Pious young men” don’t realize that, and still maintain ideas of superiority to women, and to be completely honest, when I was a young girl, the collective behavior of men at my university made me also judge men harshly and feel that women were clearly superior to men morally. They engaged in far more drunkenness, bullying and violence for instance. Now I am older I realize we are all in the same boat, and the devil plays cruel tricks on both the sexes to try and divide us. I deeply regret those feelings and I am actually glad I had people reprimand me along the way.

But I do not want to discourage this young man from wanting to see the world be a better place, but I can see my post came across that way. I think he should certainly write a letter requesting or suggesting stricter dress codes, but I think his reasons should be to make the university a comfortable place for all in keeping with Catholic spirit of human dignity - not to protect men from some notion of faulty women. I also don’t understand his sycophantic attitude to the University when compared to his derogatory description of women - I find it genuinely sinister - I have never heard of a saintly university in my life!

 

[DarkLight]

I think, whatever we believe should happen, the reality of that letter is that it’s not really going to have any effect.

For one thing, most women do believe they dress modestly. Many of the women the OP is thinking of, if asked, would probably say that their clothing is modest. He may disagree, but that’s hardly addressed (or likely to be addressed) by a simple letter.

For another, those who wouldn’t say that they are modestly dressed probably don’t believe in the concept of modesty. Again, such a letter is not likely to convince them. If anything they’ll probably see it as another guy expecting women to be responsible for men - or as a guy simply repressing natural desires.

Simply put, a letter like this is unlikely to change anything. A letter to the administration might but it would be much clearer if it were more specific.

 

[on_the_hill]

Finally, those who called this young boy’s letter preachy: well, I quite disagree. I see the zeal and enthusiasm of a young man who takes his faith seriously, not the self-righteousness of a fully developed and adult personality that’s utterly absorbed with itself. This young man might very well grow up to be a priest, and his vocation may be expressing itself in teenage ways at present. Give him a break.

I called it preachy.

Where I work, we write all the time, on different topics, and frequently make written requests of people who are much higher on the ladder than we are. One of the my responsibilities is to make sure that the staff’s writing is as good as it can possibly be.