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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
Personal and anecdotal opinion here, so take it for what it’s worth.
I think the Catholic world is lacking an open and honest discussion of sexuality. It’s mostly here’s a long list of thou shalt nots and here’s a link to Humane Vitae, the latter being an incredibly important document, but one that is basically composed of flowery prose.
Maybe unrelated, but about dating: in the Western world, we mostly go to mass, then leave it all behind us and go on with our lives. Maybe we’re involved in a ministry, but probably not. Either way, we’re at mass—we often don’t want to speak or be spoken to. When singles come here, they get “check out Ave Maria singles” as advice because that’s sadly one of the few reliable ways to get Catholic singles together. I’ve got a friend that’s non-denom and his church makes it a point to host social events often, to set singles up, etc. Life and faith are one and the same for them, they socialize with those of their faith. So faithful couples come together. And yet we wonder why good young Catholics marry outside the faith.
We’re getting married later in the West—late 20’s, early 30’s and so on. When a young person comes to CAF interested in marriage, they are often discouraged—told to get a 6 figure income before they even start looking for a spouse. Yeah, in this economy. LOL.
So essentially what you’re asking a man to do is wait out his adolescent life without having a sexual thought, make it well into his 20’s, then and only then pursue marriage. And when he is married, only have sex when the wife is willing and able, e.g., what, a couple times a month on average if you account for pregnancies, illnesses, mood swings and a certain time of month? OK. Now, do not masturbate. Do not engage in oral sex or manual sex. Do not use contraception.
As a guy, I want to have sex every day. Every single day. Been this way since I was 12, and still this way almost 20 years later. It never stopped. I don’t consider my sex drive abnormal, I bet you most guys would admit that they’re similar on this point. That is A LOT of sex and/or masturbation prevented for the faith.
So what? Do I want a cookie for this? No, I don’t want a cookie for this.
But I darn well wish that we could be more honest about what’s happening here. Find me a man that hasn’t masturbated or engaged in pornography a plethora of times throughout the years and I’ll find you either an asexual or a saint. Constant struggles with masturbation and/or pornography doesn’t make you a sex addict unless we’re willing to concede that sex addicts are the rule rather than the exception. We need more than to just chastise a few faithful but struggling Catholic men, we need our culture to shift in a way that acknowledges the prevalence of the behavior and does more about it than complain or denounce.
No offense intended to the article’s author for my (probably) irrelevant rant.
I think the Catholic world is lacking an open and honest discussion of sexuality. It’s mostly here’s a long list of thou shalt nots and here’s a link to Humane Vitae, the latter being an incredibly important document, but one that is basically composed of flowery prose.
Maybe unrelated, but about dating: in the Western world, we mostly go to mass, then leave it all behind us and go on with our lives. Maybe we’re involved in a ministry, but probably not. Either way, we’re at mass—we often don’t want to speak or be spoken to. When singles come here, they get “check out Ave Maria singles” as advice because that’s sadly one of the few reliable ways to get Catholic singles together. I’ve got a friend that’s non-denom and his church makes it a point to host social events often, to set singles up, etc. Life and faith are one and the same for them, they socialize with those of their faith. So faithful couples come together. And yet we wonder why good young Catholics marry outside the faith.
We’re getting married later in the West—late 20’s, early 30’s and so on. When a young person comes to CAF interested in marriage, they are often discouraged—told to get a 6 figure income before they even start looking for a spouse. Yeah, in this economy. LOL.
So essentially what you’re asking a man to do is wait out his adolescent life without having a sexual thought, make it well into his 20’s, then and only then pursue marriage. And when he is married, only have sex when the wife is willing and able, e.g., what, a couple times a month on average if you account for pregnancies, illnesses, mood swings and a certain time of month? OK. Now, do not masturbate. Do not engage in oral sex or manual sex. Do not use contraception.
As a guy, I want to have sex every day. Every single day. Been this way since I was 12, and still this way almost 20 years later. It never stopped. I don’t consider my sex drive abnormal, I bet you most guys would admit that they’re similar on this point. That is A LOT of sex and/or masturbation prevented for the faith.
So what? Do I want a cookie for this? No, I don’t want a cookie for this.
But I darn well wish that we could be more honest about what’s happening here. Find me a man that hasn’t masturbated or engaged in pornography a plethora of times throughout the years and I’ll find you either an asexual or a saint. Constant struggles with masturbation and/or pornography doesn’t make you a sex addict unless we’re willing to concede that sex addicts are the rule rather than the exception. We need more than to just chastise a few faithful but struggling Catholic men, we need our culture to shift in a way that acknowledges the prevalence of the behavior and does more about it than complain or denounce.
No offense intended to the article’s author for my (probably) irrelevant rant.
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DaveBj
Guest
No offense taken here for what was a very relevant, important, to-the-point post. Our faith is writing moral checks that most of us, because of the way that we’re wired and hormone, can’t cash.
I fight the same battles, and I don’t have any answers.
(May it please God that this does not turn into another round of “pray to St. Xxxxxxx” suggestions.)
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SuperLuigi
Guest
I think it’s important for people to feel they can post about uncomfortable sins on here. I frankly don’t care how bizarre or embarrassing they think it is.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Rosary, Daily Mass.
Prayers = nice. But on some level I think it’s more than fair to say God expects initiative.
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Estevao
Guest
I didn’t particularly care for this mother looking at her altar boy sons as if they were future porn users too. What a disgusting way to look at her sons, as if they were nothing but mere beasts, even while attending the holy sacrifice of the mass. This woman needs grace, forgiveness (which she must then practice herself!) and prayers 
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Estevao
Guest
Moreover, I really get tired of all this supposed “neuroscience” the anti-porn crowd is using to lessen the culpability of those who choose to look at pornography. Every single time you look at porn, you make a choice. You have your will. It may be weakened and your culpability may be lessened thanks to your addiction, but it is Catholic dogma that we have free will. Many of these “neuroscientists” (which isn’t a real field, the proper name is neurobiology) push the agenda that free will is an illusion. Now that can be argued against and refuted, but for our purposes this is contrary to revelation, so it’s really a moot point. Stop using the nascent field of neurobiology and the very weak science behind this “yourbrainonporn” movement to justify mortal sins. This goes for all this pseudo-science of “evolutionary psychology” and the metaphor of the mind as a computer, men are “wired” to look at women lustfully and such. Or the one commenter saying “going all brain-stem mode” when she lets her anger flow. It. Is. Complete. And. Utter. Garbage. It is the seeping into the Church of the secularist ideology of man as a mere animal NOT created in God’s image. Why don’t people use the language of the moral theologians, instead of falling for this pop-science garbage? Maybe because their priests in the 15 minutes they have a week to compete with the hours and hours of mainstream media filth and rot don’t mention anything of the sort, but just give a bunch of touchy feely and unrememberable stuff about “being a good person” and “being nice to others”, blah, blah, blah. Not to mention their utter cowardice in discussing this plague of pornography from the pulpit.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
It sounds to me like the woman in the article may be lacking in her willingness to forgive, and to instead truly try and help her husband. Such ashame anyone has to go through this, but you should not give up on a person who is addicted to porn; it’s far more easy to fall into this sin than most wives think.
LOVE!
LOVE!
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Robert_Sock
Guest
For many, forgiveness is a difficult virtue to master. When we learn the power and wisdom of forgiveness, we are bound to have reached an advanced level of spiritual maturity. Regardless the nature of any possible abuse that we may have endured, nor the severity of that abuse, full recovery from abuse cannot be achieved until we truly forgive our abuser(s). Any anger or resentment we hold within us, live and thrive within us, and become a part of our very self. We will never rid ourselves of this anger and resentment until we experience true forgiveness towards all. Seeing our tormentors suffer a thousand times over will only add to our own misery.
On the other hand, to endure unnecessary torment and misery is never righteous, but a perversion. Also, the righteousness of forgiveness should never involve our condoning abuse or any other forms of evil.
True forgiveness requires our valuing peace and love above all else. Experiencing forgiveness towards those who have wronged us resembles perfect love more so than perhaps any other human experience. Forgiveness involves recognizing and valuing the potential for love that exists within every human soul, including our own soul. Sins cannot be completely forgiven until we forgive, and find an inner peace with, everyone who has ever wronged us; for every ounce of anger and resentment that we hold against any other(s), there will surely exist an ounce of sin held against us – for harboring anger and resentment within our self is sin.
The Golden Rule states: “do unto others as you would have them do unto you!” Our forgiving everyone, especially those we consider our enemies or adversaries, is to demonstrate to God that we are worthy of His forgiveness. Likewise, to find love for all our enemies and adversaries is to demonstrate to God that we have suffered long enough with our anger and resentment, and we are ready to receive His love.
Again, to experience the true power and wisdom contained within the virtue of forgiveness is to develop great spiritual growth!
On the other hand, to endure unnecessary torment and misery is never righteous, but a perversion. Also, the righteousness of forgiveness should never involve our condoning abuse or any other forms of evil.
True forgiveness requires our valuing peace and love above all else. Experiencing forgiveness towards those who have wronged us resembles perfect love more so than perhaps any other human experience. Forgiveness involves recognizing and valuing the potential for love that exists within every human soul, including our own soul. Sins cannot be completely forgiven until we forgive, and find an inner peace with, everyone who has ever wronged us; for every ounce of anger and resentment that we hold against any other(s), there will surely exist an ounce of sin held against us – for harboring anger and resentment within our self is sin.
The Golden Rule states: “do unto others as you would have them do unto you!” Our forgiving everyone, especially those we consider our enemies or adversaries, is to demonstrate to God that we are worthy of His forgiveness. Likewise, to find love for all our enemies and adversaries is to demonstrate to God that we have suffered long enough with our anger and resentment, and we are ready to receive His love.
Again, to experience the true power and wisdom contained within the virtue of forgiveness is to develop great spiritual growth!
JoeFreedom
New member
From someone who has been there and done that, I can tell you that my journey was not an easy one. I agree with Veritas that as a man, I think about sex constantly, all the time, and always. (get my point?). And an honest discussion is always best.
As an adolescent, I had faith, but not a strong one, and of course, engaged in lots of masturbation and enough premarital sex and porn. I figured it was all part of growing up. Now, in my late 30’s, I’ve developed a deeper longing to please God, which means a lot of action on my part. A lot. There was also a LOT of prayer, every day and a lot of struggle. It is NOT easy, but I prayed again and again and again. With small steps I was able to give up masturbation (even while been married and having sex). I don’t do it now and really don’t have any desire. God stepped in and provided, given that I asked and received the Holy Spirit, but it took work on my part. I even through away all of the porn I had, including some Playboys I had that were worth money (still in the original packaging) as a sign of repentance. Trust me, it wasn’t easy. But it was worth it. Being where I am now is much more desirable than the sinful state I was in and I feel more at peace.
I hope and pray that those who struggle with this, including the husband of this woman, will pray and receive the same grace I received, and that his family will be stronger, and that the love of Jesus Christ will prevail for them.
FJ
As an adolescent, I had faith, but not a strong one, and of course, engaged in lots of masturbation and enough premarital sex and porn. I figured it was all part of growing up. Now, in my late 30’s, I’ve developed a deeper longing to please God, which means a lot of action on my part. A lot. There was also a LOT of prayer, every day and a lot of struggle. It is NOT easy, but I prayed again and again and again. With small steps I was able to give up masturbation (even while been married and having sex). I don’t do it now and really don’t have any desire. God stepped in and provided, given that I asked and received the Holy Spirit, but it took work on my part. I even through away all of the porn I had, including some Playboys I had that were worth money (still in the original packaging) as a sign of repentance. Trust me, it wasn’t easy. But it was worth it. Being where I am now is much more desirable than the sinful state I was in and I feel more at peace.
I hope and pray that those who struggle with this, including the husband of this woman, will pray and receive the same grace I received, and that his family will be stronger, and that the love of Jesus Christ will prevail for them.
FJ
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needleskane
Guest
Agreed. Although certainly most here will disagree, I believe the bar is set too high. I live the psychological damage due to awareness of Catholic teaching on sexuality from a very young age, and going through adolescence and young adulthood discouraged, angry, and afraid.
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needleskane
Guest
Abraham could have multiple wives and concubines, but adolescents bombarded with sex and stress all the time can’t relieve themselves? For such serious teachings with eternal repercussions the Church does not do nearly enough addressing real issues normal men face every day. Some women in relationships also seem to have this fantasy that men are only attracted to them. Unfortunately (?), men (and women) are naturally physically attracted to all sorts of people, and this does not change at all when in a relationship or marriage. It’s time to get more realistic about sex and challenge this make-believe lovie-dovie vanilla sex utopia Catholic teaching envisions. Sometimes people just need the physical release. I agree, porn is by no means the way to achieve that, but we need to have a healthy understanding of ourselves.
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Anglewannabe
Guest
The reason it is probably so hard for the woman to forgive is because the behavior is still going on. If the husband has repented of his sinful ways, it is easier to forgive’’It sounds to me like the woman in the article may be lacking in her willingness to forgive, and to instead truly try and help her husband. Such ashame anyone has to go through this, but you should not give up on a person who is addicted to porn; it’s far more easy to fall into this sin than most wives think.
LOVE!
As a woman, I admit it probably is harder for a man to fall into this sin than I can ever comprehend. But as a Catholic, I know it is God who created man and God has always been aware of the temptations all His children face. Most responses to this thread seem to imply church teachings are wrong. How on earth could a practicing Catholic think God could make a mistake?
I am not saying it is easy for men to quit this sin and I agree more help should be provided to men who suffer. But… I really think no matter how much help is provided to men, it will always be something a man needs to discuss carefully in front of a woman.
Angie
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BigShelf
Guest
The article is about how wives suffer because of their husband’s porn problems. A man’s sexuality is hard for him to handle, I’m not saying it’s not. All people, both men and women, struggle with this to some degree. But this thread is derailing right now.
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catybug
Guest
The Church envisions sex as God envisioned sex. Yes people are naturally attracted to multiple people, but the thing is we only marry one person. And with that one person we become one flesh. It doesn’t matter about who else we’re “attracted” too, or what our feelings are. The Chruch envision sex as God envisions sex. Jesus said to look at a woman lustfully is to already commit sin in your heart.
Porn isn’t the answer, and neither is masturbation. Sex is always supposed to be unifying, and masturbation turns a unifying act into a selfish one. Yes young people have raging hormones, but we are called to overcome them. And in the end we are all called to live saintly lives. And that means learning some self control. you make it sound like all young people are animals who have none.
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SerbCath
Guest
This is the most honest thing I have ever read on CAF.
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Burt_Macklin
Guest
Also personal and anecdotal, but I’m neither asexual or a saint and I’ve never struggled with porn. I think it was because I grew up without access to TV or internet and had no exposure to explicit images. I didn’t have a computer of my own until after I graduated college I do think that the main reason porn use is so pervasive is easy access and early exposure.
That being said I don’t understand the hurt expressed in the article and I have a much more sympathetic view towards the men and women who struggle with porn addiction. Most viewers start the habit as children and develop an addiction, if that is the right term for it, before they are fully aware of how serious and detrimental the habit will be in their lives. The acts are not freely chosen and are continued under the force of an acquired habit. They would like to stop but simply can’t. Why a person can’t have a more sympathetic view of the problem is beyond me. I think the important thing is to encourage your spouse to continue to fight and to not focus on past failures.
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Anglewannabe
Guest
This woman has given herself totally to her husband, has promised not to share herself with anyone else and the husband is going elsewhere to find gratification. Very easy to understand the hurt.
Any man I have ever met, no matter how much he loves her wife, the second he finds out she was unfaithfull, dumps her and never goes back
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Burt_Macklin
Guest
For me, personally, I would not be hurt deeply if my wife were struggling with that particular sin.
This woman has given herself totally to her husband, has promised not to share herself with anyone else and the husband is going elsewhere to find gratification. Very easy to understand the hurt.
Any man I have ever met, no matter how much he loves her wife, the second he finds out she was unfaithfull, dumps her and never goes back
A lot of men work through issues of infidelity. It just seems you haven’t met any of them.
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bmaj
Guest
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