Letter

[JamieMc]

I have had some pretty heated discussions with a woman on another forum. She is Orthodox Presbyterian I believe.
Anyway, her last response to me was, "I don’t bash it, I just strongly disagree with about 90% of it " She was talking about the Catholic Church as you probably gather. Well, I wrote her a response, been tossing it around for a week or so and wanted to get your opinion on it before I sent it. I don’t want it to sound confrontational but inviting. Let me know what you think:

Barb,
Sorry it’s taken me so long to respond but things have been busy, I wanted to give my response the time it deserves and I’ve been tossing around the best way of saying it.
In your last post you said that, I don’t bash it, I just strongly disagree with about 90% of it.
That reminds me of a quote that says, “There are very few people who hate the Catholic Church but there are millions who hate what they mistakenly believe the Catholic Church is. And if that truly was the Catholic Church, Catholics would hate it too.” And I can easily understand how you can misunderstand her beliefs. Some of the beliefs are so theologically based that unless you really study them they are difficult to understand. Some of the rituals, even though biblical, see so foreign to us today. And having to submit to authority and being told what is truth instead of coming up with it on our own.
Well, that 90% that you misunderstand is what draws me to even closer to the faith and even closer to God because that 90% is what I consider the fullness of the truth or the fullness of the faith. I am Catholic because it is the church instituted by Jesus Christ. It gets it’s authority from Jesus Christ as well as the assurance that He will be with us until the end of time and He will not let her teachings in faith and morals be wrong. I am Catholic because her practice of worship was given to her by Jesus Christ. All of the sacraments, Baptism, Reconciliation, the Eucharist, were all give to us by Christ. And I am Catholic because God knows me better than I know myself. He knows that as a human I am both a spiritual being as well as a spiritual being and that is why His church is both spiritual and physical.
You and I have had some pretty heated discussions in the past—but I would like to invite you to step back and take an honest look at the Catholic Church and her teachings and her beliefs. I promise that there is nothing in Catholic teaching that is unbibilical and there is nothing in the Bible that is not catholic

 

[mercygate]

I have had some pretty heated discussions with a woman on another forum. She is Orthodox Presbyterian I believe.
Anyway, her last response to me was, "I don’t bash it, I just strongly disagree with about 90% of it " She was talking about the Catholic Church as you probably gather. Well, I wrote her a response, been tossing it around for a week or so and wanted to get your opinion on it before I sent it. I don’t want it to sound confrontational but inviting. Let me know what you think:

I would modify the part on 'having to accept authority and not come up with the truth yourself.

I would say something like: No truth promulgated by the Catholic Church for the acceptance of the faithful comes out of thin air. All doctrines, disciplines and teachings are thoroughly studied and thought out. This means that accepting authority, which is so difficult for so many people, is pretty much the same thing as accepting truth itself.

 

[Della]

Barb,
Sorry it’s taken me so long to respond but things have been busy, I wanted to give my response the time it deserves and I’ve been tossing around the best way of saying it.
In your last post you said that, I don’t bash it, I just strongly disagree with about 90% of it.
That reminds me of a quote that says, “There are very few people who hate the Catholic Church but there are millions who hate what they mistakenly believe the Catholic Church is. And if that truly was the Catholic Church, Catholics would hate it too.” And I can easily understand how you can misunderstand her beliefs. Some of the beliefs are so theologically based that unless you really study them they are difficult to understand. Some of the rituals, even though biblical, seem so foreign to us today. And having to submit to authority and being told what is truth instead of coming up with it on our own.
Well, that 90% that you misunderstand is what draws me to even closer to the faith and even closer to God because that 90% is what I consider the fullness of the truth or the fullness of the faith. I am Catholic because it is the church instituted by Jesus Christ. It gets it’s authority from Jesus Christ as well as the assurance that He will be with us until the end of time and He will not let her teachings in faith and morals be wrong. I am Catholic because her practice of worship was given to her by Jesus Christ. All of the sacraments, Baptism, Reconciliation, the Eucharist, were all give to us by Christ. And I am Catholic because God knows me better than I know myself. He knows that as a human I am both a spiritual being as well as a physical being and that is why His church is both spiritual and physical.
You and I have had some pretty heated discussions in the past—but I would like to invite you to step back and take an honest look at the Catholic Church and her teachings and her beliefs. I promise that there is nothing in Catholic teaching that is unbibilical and there is nothing in the Bible that is not Catholic.

I made some minor corrections in bold. Otherwise, it sounds fine to me for a simple discussion between lay women.

God bless as you try to help your friend understand our holy Church.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Hey Jamie

from a protestant view,

It sounds good but couple questions, is this person formally catholic? if so try discovering what they had a “problem” with specifically.

the 90% business is sorta crazy, if one went on percentages it doesnt work, I think theres alot more than 10% agreed upon. Try the good old Nicene Creed for example if that doesnt make more than 10 then were all sunk Thats more of a dramatic statement than anything else and no geniune conversation can come from it.

If shes never attended a catholic church then she likely does have misconceptions, just as you do hers. Once again I suggest specifics, that takes things out of the bravado talk and it hard to argue facts, you can maybe not agree, but facts are facts. And you can always “agree to disagree” on the rest.

I imagine because I get the same feeling to be honest when I read your post that there is a exclusive line to Christ that only the Catholic church has. We dont know the “experiences” she has had and they could be genuine, and outside of the Catholic church. And to be honest (cause opinions are what your after) it will likely be seen as judging her experiences with God and saying they didnt count because they are not inside the Catholic church. Which is outside of Catholic teaching. And if you want to bridge gaps, its not gonna work.

And could cause her to doubt God altogether because if everyone says they are right and no one agrees then perhaps its a story after all.

(And if shes never been in a Catholic church “coming home” doesnt work btw, otherwise.)

Hope that helps, if it does great, if not leave it…

 

[rwoehmke]

Barb,
Sorry it’s taken me so long to respond but things have been busy, I wanted to give my response the time it deserves and I’ve been tossing around the best way of saying it.
In your last post you said that, “I don’t bash it, I just strongly disagree with about 90% of it.”
That reminds me of a quote that says, “There are very few people who hate the Catholic Church but there are millions who hate what they mistakenly believe the Catholic Church is. And if that truly was the Catholic Church, Catholics would hate it too.” And I can easily understand how you can misunderstand her beliefs. Some of the beliefs are so theologically complex that unless you really study them they are difficult to understand. Some of the rituals, even though biblical, seem so foreign to us today. And having to submit to authority and being told what is truth instead of coming up with it on our own.
Well, that 90% that you misunderstand is what draws me to even closer to the faith and even closer to God because that 90% is what I consider the fullness of the truth or the fullness of the faith. I am Catholic because it is the church instituted by Jesus Christ. It gets it’s authority from Jesus Christ as well as the assurance that He will be with us until the end of time and He will not let her teachings in faith and morals be wrong. I am Catholic because her practice of worship was given to her by Jesus Christ. All of the sacraments, Baptism, Reconciliation, the Eucharist, were all given to us by Christ. And I am Catholic because God knows me better than I know myself. He knows that as a human I am both a spiritual being as well as a physical being and that is why His church is both spiritual and physical.
You and I have had some pretty heated discussions in the past—but I would like to invite you to step back and take an honest look at the Catholic Church and her teachings and her beliefs. I promise that there is nothing in Catholic teaching that is unbibilical and there is nothing in the Bible that is not Catholic.

I made some minor corrections in bold. Otherwise, it sounds fine to me for a simple discussion between lay women.

God bless as you try to help your friend understand our holy Church.

Some typos or errors corrected are colored magenta

 

[JamieMc]

Yeah, I’vethought about the 90% thing and comparing it to the Nicene Creed. As far as I know she has grown up as a Presbyterian.

I’ve thought about someone putting in that all Christian faiths have some matter of truth but that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the truth. Like I said, I wanted the letter to be an invitation for her to discuss things.

BTW, Della, I’m male, so It’s not exactly a converstation between two laywomen.

 

[Hellisreal]

BTW, Della, I’m male, so It’s not exactly a converstation between two laywomen.

90 percent seems like an exaggerated number. Unless she is for abortions, for ordination of women, for birth control, for sex outside of marriage, for marriage not being a sacrament, for the loose attendance requirements or no worship attendance requrirements, ect.

It may be easier to respond this layperson if you knew what they support as well as what they object to in the CC. If she wants a make it easy make it up as you go faith, then she is right. She will never agree with the CC.

If she can see its not easy, but we dont get to make the rules- you may have a better shot. I would focus on authority. Who has it and who is subject to it?

 

[JamieMc]

Well, it’s meant to be a broad letter as it’s meant to be an invitation to start a better diologe.

 

[SPH1]

Being that she’s Presbyterian, you might send her this link, “A Tiptoe Through TULIP”:

cin.org/users/james/files/tulip.htm

 

[Kitty_Chan]

If she can see its not easy, but we dont get to make the rules- you may have a better shot. I would focus on authority. Who has it and who is subject to it?

Im being brutally honest here and authority discussion bristles me, gets that fur standing If one goes with priesthood of all believers then it simply doesnt work. If one goes with atheist thinking then it doesnt work again because you have no mind of your own.

soooo I only bring up the position can be dicey. tread carefully, for discussion. Even my Catholic friend has authority issues. But a friend who was long time coming to believe in God, period, finally did because he saw God as the final authority in all things. And hes not Catholic.

I am God has to sort us out cause we are all nuts

 

[Hellisreal]

Im being brutally honest here and authority discussion bristles me, gets that fur standing If one goes with priesthood of all believers then it simply doesnt work. If one goes with atheist thinking then it doesnt work again because you have no mind of your own.

soooo I only bring up the position can be dicey. tread carefully, for discussion. Even my Catholic friend has authority issues. But a friend who was long time coming to believe in God, period, finally did because he saw God as the final authority in all things. And hes not Catholic.

I am God has to sort us out cause we are all nuts

Good points Kitty.

I guess we could say Jesus Christs authority too. Same thing.
BTW- I dont want to get fur standing or flying-
Then I have to call excorcists, and thats not easy today they are so busy.

 

[Della]

BTW, Della, I’m male, so It’s not exactly a converstation between two laywomen.

Sorry 'bout that!

This gal sounds entrenched with her “90%” disagreement with the Catholic Church. No doubt that’s hyperbole speaking.

I suggest you draw her out by asking what her biggest objection to Catholicism is and start there. No use going around the mulberry bush just to end up where you began.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Good points Kitty.

I guess we could say Jesus Christs authority too. Same thing.
BTW- I dont want to get fur standing or flying-
Then I have to call excorcists, and thats not easy today they are so busy.

Thank you for understanding Im not really trying to argue, just help positions. and Jesus yes, authority.

As for the other thats why I love Kitty so much, she likes to take on monsters, and strives to be always polite when doing so. However, I actually couldnt be the fashion divia she is

 

[Hellisreal]

Thank you for understanding Im not really trying to argue, just help positions. and Jesus yes, authority.

As for the other thats why I love Kitty so much, she likes to take on monsters, and strives to be always polite when doing so. However, I actually couldnt be the fashion divia she is

I have no idea what this means, but I like you and thank you for making me smile big.

God bless you Kitty Chan

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I have no idea what this means, but I like you and thank you for making me smile big.

God bless you Kitty Chan

Hee hee hee will have to 'convert" you to Hello Kitty cartoons.

its what she does fights monsters, helps friends, and looks darn good doing it all sigh I wonder about myself sometimes

 

[Hellisreal]

Hee hee hee will have to 'convert" you to Hello Kitty cartoons.

its what she does fights monsters, helps friends, and looks darn good doing it all sigh I wonder about myself sometimes

Ohh, I get it I think. I recall this animation thing.
I thought you meant those real things, that Zooey likes.

I am a dog lover, so I guess I missed the whole point.

But, I think Hello Kitty is much closer to what I would feel comfortable with. If given a choice.

(dont tell anyone though)

 

[Kitty_Chan]

But, I think Hello Kitty is much closer to what I would feel comfortable with. If given a choice.

(dont tell anyone though)

Hello Kitty likes even dogs, and theres always Under Dog if you want a dog hero.

I know, I know from a person who has hang up on the Lords supper

ps also why I like zooey, she has great taste.

 

[Hellisreal]

Hello Kitty likes even dogs, and theres always Under Dog if you want a dog hero.

I know, I know from a person who has hang up on the Lords supper

ps also why I like zooey, she has great taste.

I also like Zooey.

She does have great taste.

A “hang up” is like a soup label. Define " Hang up" for me if you would be so kind to do.

As your words cut me like a knife.

But, I am still here bleeding and asking anyway.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I have had some pretty heated discussions with a woman on another forum. She is Orthodox Presbyterian I believe.
Anyway, her last response to me was, "I don’t bash it, I just strongly disagree with about 90% of it " She was talking about the Catholic Church as you probably gather. Well, I wrote her a response, been tossing it around for a week or so and wanted to get your opinion on it before I sent it. I don’t want it to sound confrontational but inviting. Let me know what you think:

I think i know that gal!

Just curious. What forum was it?