Letters to 7 churches of Revelation

[YourAverageJoe]

are the 7 churches of revelation a medaphor for the Cathloc Church?? As I am reading these letters and cant help but notice the scolding that is taking place. At least 4 of these Churches had serious issues with individuals preaching heresy, or lukewarm Christianity. Nonetheless, these are Churches that Christ died for, these are Churches in the body of Christ, and yet they are so off base. I am reminded when Jesus said there would be sinners and doers, and weeds among the wheat in his Church… so as I read, and consider some of the issues that surround the Church today, I say whoala !!!. There is a huge connection here.

does anybody else feel this way???

 

[Aelred_Minor]

They are seven historical local churches that in the first century were particularly within the sphere of influence of the Apostle John, but yes I think the messages to them also have a lot of applicability to us as well, which would be why the Holy Spirit inspired the letters to them to be written in inspired, public revelation, rather than just a private, non-Biblical letter to them.

 

[Rahn]

I’m really into the Book of Revelation and I’ve read and listened to a lot of commentaries on it. I believe the messages to the churches have a definite meaning for us today. I’ve heard a lot of different theories, that the churches are in chronological order (with Thyatira referring to the Catholic church), that they have a collective meaning for the whole of church history and that they have an individual meaning for each of us, as we are part of the church.

I do not believe, as some do, that the book of Revelation is is written in “apocalyptic” language (meaning, not to be taken literally), that’s a bit of an absurdity in that apocalypse is the Latin word for revelation. I think we are meant to read the messages to the seven churches and heed their warnings. I know that there have been times when I’ve “left my first love”.

These were the last words of the last apostle, the last divine revelation from our Lord, Jesus Christ, and we would do well to “have an ear, and hear what then Spirit says to the church”.

 

[TimothyH]

I’m really into the Book of Revelation and I’ve read and listened to a lot of commentaries on it. I believe the messages to the churches have a definite meaning for us today. I’ve heard a lot of different theories, that the churches are in chronological order (with Thyatira referring to the Catholic church), that they have a collective meaning for the whole of church history and that they have an individual meaning for each of us, as we are part of the church.

I do not believe, as some do, that the book of Revelation is is written in “apocalyptic” language (meaning, not to be taken literally), that’s a bit of an absurdity in that apocalypse is the Latin word for revelation. I think we are meant to read the messages to the seven churches and heed their warnings. I know that there have been times when I’ve “left my first love”.

These were the last words of the last apostle, the last divine revelation from our Lord, Jesus Christ, and we would do well to “have an ear, and hear what then Spirit says to the church”.

All seven Churches in Revelation were Catholic Churches, under the authority of St. John who was their bishop.

You may want to pick up “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn if you have not read it already. It explains the Book of Revelation in light of mainstream Catholic theology.

-Tim-

 

[Nate13]

All seven Churches in Revelation were Catholic Churches, under the authority of St. John who was their bishop.

You may want to pick up “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn if you have not read it already. It explains the Book of Revelation in light of mainstream Catholic theology.

-Tim-

There are multiple levels of meaning to most of the book of Revelation, although the meanings build on each other. There is definitely a literal meaning to these 7 letters that was appropriate at the time when it was first written, but there is no reason not to think that these same lessons apply to us in our time today. If some of the letters sound like they are speaking to us today, its probably because 2000 years later we are still making the same mistakes as they were then.

 

[TimothyH]

There are multiple levels of meaning to most of the book of Revelation, although the meanings build on each other. There is definitely a literal meaning to these 7 letters that was appropriate at the time when it was first written, but there is no reason not to think that these same lessons apply to us in our time today. If some of the letters sound like they are speaking to us today, its probably because 2000 years later we are still making the same mistakes as they were then.

Agreed.

But we must also agree, as you seem to do, that at the time it was written, there was one Church. The seven Churches listed were all part of the same universal, apostolic Church. Part of John’s job as bishop, was to ensure that the seven Churches listed in Revelation were united in teaching a uniform body of doctrine.

My point is that Rahn’s statement that the Church of Thyatira referrs to the Catholic Church seems to infer that the other six churches were somehow not part of the same universal and apostolic Church. That cannot be as a matter of historical fact. There may be lessons we can draw from Revelation relative to non-Catholic Churches as they stand today, but John was not referencing the Baptist or the Methodist Church, that’s for sure. All seven were part of one, universal, apostolic Church - the Catholic Church.

And quite frankly, having lived long enough in the deep south, I’m get a bit defensive when I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church. Here in the deep south, it is a given that as soon as you hear someone say that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, the words “Jezebel” and “harlot” are not too far behind. Maybe I’m just a product of my environment or maybe I’m truly being uncharitable, but as soon as I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, I start looking in the background for a KJV thumping Missionary Baptist hacker preacher from East Tennesee screaming that the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon, the Pope is the anti-Christ, etc.

-Tim-

 

[Rahn]

My point is that Rahn’s statement that the Church of Thyatira referrs to the Catholic Church seems to infer that the other six churches were somehow not part of the same universal and apostolic Church. That cannot be as a matter of historical fact. There may be lessons we can draw from Revelation relative to non-Catholic Churches as they stand today, but John was not referencing the Baptist or the Methodist Church, that’s for sure. All seven were part of one, universal, apostolic Church - the Catholic Church.

And quite frankly, having lived long enough in the deep south, I’m get a bit defensive when I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church. Here in the deep south, it is a given that as soon as you hear someone say that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, the words “Jezebel” and “harlot” are not too far behind. Maybe I’m just a product of my environment or maybe I’m truly being uncharitable, but as soon as I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, I start looking in the background for a KJV thumping Missionary Baptist hacker preacher from East Tennesee screaming that the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon, the Pope is the anti-Christ, etc.

-Tim-

Sorry, Tim, I don’t believe that Thyatira refers to us. I was trying to make the point that there are a lot of theories on the meaning of the churches in Revelation. The chronological theory is one of them, but, I agree with your earlier reply that lumping us in with Thyatira doesn’t make sense even from a chronological point of view.

I guess it could be worse, they could say we’re Laodicea

 

[Karen1960]

Agreed.

But we must also agree, as you seem to do, that at the time it was written, there was one Church. The seven Churches listed were all part of the same universal, apostolic Church. Part of John’s job as bishop, was to ensure that the seven Churches listed in Revelation were united in teaching a uniform body of doctrine.

My point is that Rahn’s statement that the Church of Thyatira referrs to the Catholic Church seems to infer that the other six churches were somehow not part of the same universal and apostolic Church. That cannot be as a matter of historical fact. There may be lessons we can draw from Revelation relative to non-Catholic Churches as they stand today, but John was not referencing the Baptist or the Methodist Church, that’s for sure. All seven were part of one, universal, apostolic Church - the Catholic Church.

And quite frankly, having lived long enough in the deep south, I’m get a bit defensive when I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church. Here in the deep south, it is a given that as soon as you hear someone say that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, the words “Jezebel” and “harlot” are not too far behind. Maybe I’m just a product of my environment or maybe I’m truly being uncharitable, but as soon as I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, I start looking in the background for a KJV thumping Missionary Baptist hacker preacher from East Tennesee screaming that the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon, the Pope is the anti-Christ, etc.

-Tim-

I understand you Tim, I’ve heard it too. I’m from Tennessee

 

[centurionguard]

Agreed.

But we must also agree, as you seem to do, that at the time it was written, there was one Church. The seven Churches listed were all part of the same universal, apostolic Church. Part of John’s job as bishop, was to ensure that the seven Churches listed in Revelation were united in teaching a uniform body of doctrine.

My point is that Rahn’s statement that the Church of Thyatira referrs to the Catholic Church seems to infer that the other six churches were somehow not part of the same universal and apostolic Church. That cannot be as a matter of historical fact. There may be lessons we can draw from Revelation relative to non-Catholic Churches as they stand today, but John was not referencing the Baptist or the Methodist Church, that’s for sure. All seven were part of one, universal, apostolic Church - the Catholic Church.

And quite frankly, having lived long enough in the deep south, I’m get a bit defensive when I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church. Here in the deep south, it is a given that as soon as you hear someone say that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, the words “Jezebel” and “harlot” are not too far behind. Maybe I’m just a product of my environment or maybe I’m truly being uncharitable, but as soon as I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, I start looking in the background for a KJV thumping Missionary Baptist hacker preacher from East Tennesee screaming that the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon, the Pope is the anti-Christ, etc.

-Tim-

I start looking in the background for a KJV thumping Missionary Baptist hacker preacher from East Tennesee screaming that the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon, the Pope is the anti-Christ, etc.

Agreed; you see this kind of junk spilled all over the internet. And not just exclusively by denominational Baptist ministers. File it under G.

 

[centurionguard]

All seven Churches in Revelation were Catholic Churches, under the authority of St. John who was their bishop.

You may want to pick up “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn if you have not read it already. It explains the Book of Revelation in light of mainstream Catholic theology.

-Tim-

I have Scott Hahn’s “The Last Supper”. Its been a while since I’ve read it.

Much that is written in the book of the Apocalypse/Revelation if only some in reference for the time period when Saint John wrote about the Seven Churches, it does have importance for future history within the Church if not even prophetic.

One of the seven letters I’ve always looked at in improving my spiritual life and often touches deep as if the Good Lord Himself giving me a reproof and reminder of my folly and failures.
drbo.org/chapter/73003.htm
Apocalypse Chapter 3 (“Take Note of Verse 15 through 20”)

**[1] And to the angel of the church of Sardis, write: These things saith he, that hath the seven spirits of God, and the seven stars: I know thy works, that thou hast the name of being alive: and thou art dead. [2] Be watchful and strengthen the things that remain, which are ready to die. For I find not thy works full before my God. [3] Have in mind therefore in what manner thou hast received and heard: and observe, and do penance. If then thou shalt not watch, I will come to thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know at what hour I will come to thee. [4] But thou hast a few names in Sardis, which have not defiled their garments: and they shall walk with me in white, because they are worthy. [5] He that shall overcome, shall thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

[6] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. [7] And to the angel of the church of Philadelphia, write: These things saith the Holy One and the true one, he that hath the key of David; he that openeth, and no man shutteth; shutteth, and no man openeth: [8] I know thy works. Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. [9] Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee. [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of the temptation, which shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell upon the earth.

[11] Behold, I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. [12] He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; and he shall go out no more; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and my new name. [13] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. [14] And to the angel of the church of Laodicea, write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, who is the beginning of the creation of God: [15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot.

[14] “The Amen,”… that is, the true one, the Truth itself; the Word and Son of God. The beginning-- that is, the principle, the source, and the efficient cause of the whole creation.

[16] But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. [17] Because thou sayest: I am rich, and made wealthy, and have need of nothing: and knowest not, that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. [18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold fire tried, that thou mayest be made rich; and mayest be clothed in white garments, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not appear; and anoint thy eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. [19] Such as I love, I rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance. [20] Behold, I stand at the gate, and knock. If any man shall hear my voice, and open to me the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[21] To him that shall overcome, I will give to sit with me in my throne: as I also have overcome, and am set down with my Father in his throne. [22] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. **

God is not happy with those who are Lukewarm in Spirit
An interesting fact about earthly Pure Molten Gold tried in the Crucible of Fire burning all impurities is that Molten Gold at 99% will not burn the human flesh if your fingers skim through the molten Gold. Its very warm to touch but leaves no 2ond or 3rd degree burns on the flesh.

 

[TimothyH]

I understand you Tim, I’ve heard it too. I’m from Tennessee

No offense meant.

But man, it can get rough in terms of fire-breathin’ preachin’ up in TTHAH (them thar hills an hollers).

And not just Tennesee.

-Tim-

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I’ve heard that the 7 churches might have been Paul’s churches. Basically, John was admonishing some of them for being too “Roman”. Revelation is very anti-Roman. Paul told his followers to basically obey Roman rulership, but John thought that Rome was the Whore of Bablyon and totally evil.

 

[Ranp]

Average Joe

I high suggest you read the book “The Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth” by Scott Hahn. This book gives structure and meaning to the book of Revelations. Plus the book is an extreamely easy read.

 

[Karen1960]

No offense meant.

But man, it can get rough in terms of fire-breathin’ preachin’ up in TTHAH (them thar hills an hollers).

And not just Tennesee.

-Tim-

if I had a dollar everytime I was told these things, I’d be a rich woman

This is not just by those preachers, but their devoted follwers who feel they must preach the “Good News” to this idol worshiping Catholic.

I’ve actually been told that Revelations is mostly about the Catholic Churchnot just a certain church.

 

[jcrichton]

are the 7 churches of revelation a medaphor for the Cathloc Church?? As I am reading these letters and cant help but notice the scolding that is taking place. At least 4 of these Churches had serious issues with individuals preaching heresy, or lukewarm Christianity. Nonetheless, these are Churches that Christ died for, these are Churches in the body of Christ, and yet they are so off base. I am reminded when Jesus said there would be sinners and doers, and weeds among the wheat in his Church… so as I read, and consider some of the issues that surround the Church today, I say whoala !!!. There is a huge connection here.

does anybody else feel this way???

…personally, I feel that these letters are for the Church immemorial (the day of inception till the Parousia); it defines various states/stages of the Church which receives from Christ either praise or warning; these praises/warnings are for both those who exist in the Mystical Body (Catholic Church) and those who only orbit the Body (non-Catholic Christians and others who are truly searching for God).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Agreed.

But we must also agree, as you seem to do, that at the time it was written, there was one Church. The seven Churches listed were all part of the same universal, apostolic Church. Part of John’s job as bishop, was to ensure that the seven Churches listed in Revelation were united in teaching a uniform body of doctrine.

My point is that Rahn’s statement that the Church of Thyatira referrs to the Catholic Church seems to infer that the other six churches were somehow not part of the same universal and apostolic Church. That cannot be as a matter of historical fact. There may be lessons we can draw from Revelation relative to non-Catholic Churches as they stand today, but John was not referencing the Baptist or the Methodist Church, that’s for sure. All seven were part of one, universal, apostolic Church - the Catholic Church.

And quite frankly, having lived long enough in the deep south, I’m get a bit defensive when I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church. Here in the deep south, it is a given that as soon as you hear someone say that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, the words “Jezebel” and “harlot” are not too far behind. Maybe I’m just a product of my environment or maybe I’m truly being uncharitable, but as soon as I hear that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church, I start looking in the background for a KJV thumping Missionary Baptist hacker preacher from East Tennesee screaming that the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon, the Pope is the anti-Christ, etc.

-Tim-

I cuncur, Tim; ever since I was little I’ve heard non-Catholic Christians refer to the Catholic Church in demeaning tones and even asserting that Catholics must flee from her because she is destined to Hell… even as a child I found it absurd that Christ would be so waaayyy off as to have founded a Church that would fail within years of the death of the last of the Apostles–that would make Him a liar as He Claimed that the Church would remain standing even against Satan himself and that He, Christ, would be with the Church till the end of times (not to mention the fact that the other Paraclete would come and Reveal the total Truth and would remain with and in the Believers)… :banghead:

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

if I had a dollar everytime I was told these things, I’d be a rich woman

This is not just by those preachers, but their devoted follwers who feel they must preach the “Good News” to this idol worshiping Catholic.

I’ve actually been told that Revelations is mostly about the Catholic Churchnot just a certain church.

…then you should remind them that it is the Catholic Church that parades with palms and white robes (Bishops, Priests, and Deacons) who will be saved since Christ’s servants are found in Apocalypse 7 in the millions and, as far as I know, it is only Catholics who Worship in the same manner as those that have washed their clothes in the Blood of the Lamb!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[COPLAND_3]

Here is a quote from the Aquinas Study Bible

1:4 seven churches: These are the great cities and their regions, on account of the congregations of the faithful who are there. (Bulus al-Bushi) Though John writes to seven churches, nevertheless he speaks to all. (The Muratorian Canon)

 

[Karen1960]

…then you should remind them that it is the Catholic Church that parades with palms and white robes (Bishops, Priests, and Deacons) who will be saved since Christ’s servants are found in Apocalypse 7 in the millions and, as far as I know, it is only Catholics who Worship in the same manner as those that have washed their clothes in the Blood of the Lamb!

Maran atha!

Angel

very true

 

[YourAverageJoe]

Average Joe

I high suggest you read the book “The Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth” by Scott Hahn. This book gives structure and meaning to the book of Revelations. Plus the book is an extreamely easy read.

good suggestion.
I will.