Letters to 7 churches question

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“it does not mention anything at all about the Church as being the seat of an antiChrist,” in the Apocalypse, there are two women that represent churches. One is pure, with a crown of 12 stars, which are the apostles, and a whore with many children. Since the first is a church, I believe that the second is as well. The second church seats on a beast with 7 heads, and the angels says that the heads are 7 hills. Rome is on 7 hills. I will let you deduce by yourself.
Nup, glowing lady is the daughter of Israel, 12 stars are 12 tribes of Israel, church doesn’t give birth to Messiah. Messiah sets up church.

2nd not so glowing lady is Babylon. Not the Church.

I really hate to argue. 😦
 
Ok I’ve recently came across some protestants using the letters to the 7 churches in revelation to show that the bible prophesied about the Roman Catholic Church…
Apparently the letters to the 7 churches prophecy also about church history.
I find no compelling reason to believe that the seven churches mentioned in Revelation 2 and 3 represent anything more than what the Bible says they do, namely seven first-century churches in Asia (modern-day Turkey), though the general counsels found in them to persevere in faithfulness are certainly universal and timeless.

I don’t believe that the letters represent a prophecy of the so-called seven ages in church history, especially because the American Revolutionary War has been assigned such a prominent place. I don’t know but it would be my guess that this particular theory was concocted by a Protestant American. Americans are so arrogant that they think everything revolves around them, even Church history!

I don’t believe that the letters represent a prophecy of the so-called seven ages in church, any more than I believe that the three languages of the inscription on the Jesus’ Cross (Hebrew, Latin, and Greek: John 19:20) represent a prophecy of the three ages in church history, though I think the case is stronger since Hebrew (Aramaic) was the dominant liturgical language of the Church in the beginning in Jerusalem, followed by Greek as more and more Gentiles converted, and finally Latin as the heavenly-ordained primacy of the Church of Rome became more and more manifest.😃
 
Your posting does not make a whole lot of sense.

Paragraph 2: You can’t deny that during the Dark Ages, there were people seeking for power, and those are the “Nicolaitanes”. Not all the Church was corrupted, but people from Satan’s synagogue, “infiltrated” the Church.

**Nicolaism is a Christian heresy by a deacon known only as Nicholas. The Nicolaites were mentioned twice in John’s Revelation. Several Early Church Fathers also mention the sect in their writings, such as Irenaeus, Epiphanius, and Theodoret. Irenaeus wrote that they “lead lives of unrestrained indulgence.” Although some theologians believe the letter to the 7 churches could be interpreted as 7 ages of the Church, most agree that the Nicolaites practiced a form of Balaamism which included sexual promiscuity, and that this was somehow included in their ‘christian’ rituals. **

For example, if the Bible would have written directly and clearly against the Church at that time, I’m totally sure that the Bible was going to be “edited”. God is smarter than that, don’t you think?

Since the Canon of Scripture was decided BY the Church with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, perhaps.

For example, there were popes “unworthy” of their seats or authority, as you cal them, and if the Bible would have written against them, logically, since they were a bit (a lot, actually) evil , they would have used their infallibility to make changes in the bible, were His Word accuses them, to be more precise. Don’t you think it sounds logical?

No, because you show that you have absolutely no concept of what infallibility means. In fact, that there were unworthy popes in the seat of Peter at various times in the Church and yet the Faith remained and nothing in the Church’s teachings in Faith and morals was ever changed, shows that the Church is protected from error. Also, infallibility only involves the Teaching Magisterium of the Church - the pope together with all the bishops - when these make a pronouncement together or supported in the areas of Faith and morals.

If you were some evil bastard having supreme authority and on your left somewhere is a book that accuses you, and if you have power to change it, wouldn’t you? Of course you’d do, if you were evil, but I hope you aren’t.

I don’t ever remember a verse in Scriputre from Christ in which he states that we are evil bastards, do you? And the only evil bastards that I can think of are those who blatantly translated Scripture in such a way that it became weak, biased and shoddy. Example: early protestant bibles.

“it does not mention anything at all about the Church as being the seat of an antiChrist,” in the Apocalypse, there are two women that represent churches. One is pure, with a crown of 12 stars, which are the apostles, and a whore with many children. Since the first is a church, I believe that the second is as well. The second church seats on a beast with 7 heads, and the angels says that the heads are 7 hills. Rome is on 7 hills. I will let you deduce by yourself.

**The woman with 12 stars who gives birth to the one who will rule with an iron rod is interpreted in two ways: the most obvious one is Mary, mother of Jesus, and the one who she delivers is Her Son, our Savior. The second interpretation is that of a woman giving birth to Israel itself, represented by 12, the tribes.

The second woman, the harlot, is Jerusalem. The 7 hills of Rome has no bearing on the Vatrican because the Vatican is outside of the city and beyond the 7 hills of Rome. Go check your geography.

It’s amazing how nonCatholics come into these forums and attempt to tell US what we believe and what the Church teaches. The height of your arrogance is unbelievable. **
 
In Greek, “niko” means “I win” and “laos” is “the people”. So, the “Nicolaitanes” should mean those who try to win the favour of the people and rule over them. As discussed above, those were very few in the early Church. The local presbyters and bishops were truly servants to their flocks, and did not, with some exceptions, seek to obtain personal power. Such attitudes would have led to divisions and conflicts, and the Church, still young and fragile, could not afford such phenomena, as they would compromise her very existence.
And this completes the description of the Church of Ephesus.


This is what I meant by “Nicolaitanes”. Did you read my posts?
 
*In Greek, “niko” means “I win” and “laos” is “the people”. So, the “Nicolaitanes” should mean those who try to win the favour of the people and rule over them.

So, what you are saying that anyone with the name of Nicholas should try to win favor of the people and rule over them? What nonsense is THAT? You do not think things through, do you?*

As discussed above, those were very few in the early Church. The local presbyters and bishops were truly servants to their flocks, and did not, with some exceptions, seek to obtain personal power. Such attitudes would have led to divisions and conflicts, and the Church, still young and fragile, could not afford such phenomena, as they would compromise her very existence.
And this completes the description of the Church of Ephesus.

AMEN.

This is what I meant by “Nicolaitanes”. Did you read my posts?

Did you read mine? I TOLD you who the Nicolaites WERE, and even posted non-biblical source writings of the ECFs to substantiate it. What you mean by ‘Nicolaites’ is irrelevant. They were a heretical sect. PERIOD.
 
Aren’t we talking about the prophecy? Not everything in the book of Revelation should be taken literally; if you think so, then I suppose you’re still waiting for a dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns. :rolleyes: I was talking about the prophecy, and in the prophecy, “Nicolaitanes” are those who try to win the favor of the people and rule over them. What I say is proved by historical facts, which you’ll find on that web page I posted.
 
Aren’t we talking about the prophecy? Not everything in the book of Revelation should be taken literally; if you think so, then I suppose you’re still waiting for a dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns. :rolleyes: I was talking about the prophecy, and in the prophecy, “Nicolaitanes” are those who try to win the favor of the people and rule over them. What I proved by historical facts, which you’ll find on that web page I posted.
I have no intention of checking out the webpage when I know exactly who the Nicolaites were. What exactly did you ‘prove’ by historical facts? I’m the one who gave you historical facts. All you gave me was antiCatholic drivel.
 
The interpretations of the seven churches in Revelation exemplifies the problem with the protestant theological positions. That’s right I said positions. That is plural, more than one. So which one is correct? If you look at the protestant interpretations of this you will find they are all over the place. There is no unity of interpretation although every denomination claims they are led by the Spirit. The multiplicity odf interpretations is proof positive that there is no Holy Spirit guiding them for if there were they would speak with one voice not many voices. Protestantism is a smorgasboard of theological opinion and you can take your pick as to which one you want to accept. But that is not unique to the book of Revelation. We find the same thing in other areas too. Take Baptism, Communion, OSAS, or practically any other theological subject and you will find the same thing. Protestantism is “Cafeteria Christianity” at it finest. Don’t like Baptism as a sacrament? then you can choose Baptism as an ordinance or you don’t have to choose any Baptism at all. Whatever theological beliefs you want you can find it in protestantism OR you can start your own denomination. After all, who knows what theology works best for you than you yourself?
 
I have no intention of checking out the webpage when I know exactly who the Nicolaites were. What exactly did you ‘prove’ by historical facts? I’m the one who gave you historical facts. All you gave me was antiCatholic drivel.
Talking about what you don’t know makes you look stupid. If you didn’t read the site, why do you talk as you did? You didn’t read it, because if you did, you would know that it actually has historical proof. If at least you’d read everything it says, then I would be glad and willing to listen to your critics (negative and positive). I’m willing to listen at all you have to say about it, but be mature and first read it all if you want to maintain a good conversation. Talking about it and not reading it makes you seem unwise and unintelligent. Just use your intelligence (and wisdom), because I’m sure you have some. 🙂
 
Talking about what you don’t know makes you look stupid. If you didn’t read the site, why do you talk as you did? You didn’t read it, because if you did, you would know that it actually has historical proof. If at least you’d read everything it says, then I would be glad and willing to listen to your critics (negative and positive). I’m willing to listen at all you have to say about it, but be mature and first read it all if you want to maintain a good conversation. Talking about it and not reading it makes you seem unwise and unintelligent. Just use your intelligence (and wisdom), because I’m sure you have some. 🙂
I have read the link and it is anti- catholic which doesn’t bother some people because you are not allowed to be anti anyone(if you want to be politically correct) except Catholics- so congratulations you are part of the only sanctified bigotry!
Most of it is reconstituted drivel from other sites of the same kind.All these sites are the same . They swear they have proof then serve up the same Black Legend stuff that’s been around like forever.There like damn urban legends.they get disproved-then goes into hiding then pops up in another form regurgitating the same old, same old.Like all the Babylonian nonsense that comes from a couple of books by some dimwitted fanatic- who proceeds to give “real information” to bigots who are anxious to justify their bigotry with whatever cr*p that comes their way.
 
To Cristian B and all,

please read post #11 where the author starts talking about what Thyatira “could” mean and then goes on to expound almost as if it’s fact. Isn’t that troubling to you Cristian? Why would you put so much stock in that author? 🤷

Also, you can read about the Nicolaitans in St. Irenaeus’ work “Against Heresies.” Nicholas was a deacon in Antioch was antinomian and had a following, according to Tim Staples. (in one of his “Shocking Proof About the Pope” cd’s)
 
Talking about what you don’t know makes you look stupid. If you didn’t read the site, why do you talk as you did? You didn’t read it, because if you did, you would know that it actually has historical proof. If at least you’d read everything it says, then I would be glad and willing to listen to your critics (negative and positive). I’m willing to listen at all you have to say about it, but be mature and first read it all if you want to maintain a good conversation. Talking about it and not reading it makes you seem unwise and unintelligent. Just use your intelligence (and wisdom), because I’m sure you have some. 🙂
As stupid as you say I am, I gave you the historical facts about the Nicolaites. As unwise and unintelligent as you say I am, I gave you the historical facts about the Nicolaites. And now, since you’ve resorted to name-calling, it proves that you have lost any integrity in here, which means, as of this moment, you are on ignore.

The forum gods sure weren’t watching when you came along.
 
Well, there goes my question. This always happens to me. I ask a question, a few people reply and then an argument breaks out.
 
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