Letting children walk away from the faith, like Jesus

[upbeatjonm]

As a father of 5 children, I have grown frustrated trying to keep the children in the Church. I now have a 22 and 14 year old who are basically atheistic.

I have tried persuasion, teaching moments, etc. I have given a good example, and sent them to Catholic Schools.

But it has dawned on me… many times in the Gospels, in fact, in almost all cases, Jesus simply taught, and let people choose and let them walk away. He was often amazed at their lack of faith, but never seemed to try hard to persuade, but simply respected their choice.

Is that how we should be as parents? Are we wrong to worry and try to talk our kids into their faith? Or should we just let them walk away and respect their choice, like Jesus does?

 

[triumphguy]

At 16 I hated God. At 18 I didn’t believe. At 22 I fell in love with God again. At 30 I was a liberal Catholic. At 40 I was a tired Catholic. At 50 I am a rejuvenated Catholic.

I guess we go through cycles.

 

[upbeatjonm]

At 16 I hated God. At 18 I didn’t believe. At 22 I fell in love with God again. At 30 I was a liberal Catholic. At 40 I was a tired Catholic. At 50 I am a rejuvenated Catholic.

I guess we go through cycles.

I understand. Would anything your parents said or did have any bearing on your journey? Or was that beyond their control?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

As a father of 5 children, I have grown frustrated trying to keep the children in the Church. I now have a 22 and 14 year old who are basically atheistic.

I have tried persuasion, teaching moments, etc. I have given a good example, and sent them to Catholic Schools.

But it has dawned on me… many times in the Gospels, in fact, in almost all cases, Jesus simply taught, and let people choose and let them walk away. He was often amazed at their lack of faith, but never seemed to try hard to persuade, but simply respected their choice.

Is that how we should be as parents? Are we wrong to worry and try to talk our kids into their faith? Or should we just let them walk away and respect their choice, like Jesus does?

I think there comes a time when you have to let go, yes. Maybe not at age 14, but once the children are not children any more, but adults in their own right. Did the Prodigal’s father try to stop him from leaving? No. He let him go, even giving him his inheritance early, which meant in the culture of the day, that in effect, the father was already dead to that son. The father let the son go and fall into the pig pen, he had to want to come back, he had to know his error and beg his father to let him be a servant.

People who leave have to WANT to return.

 

[svid2]

Though I was raised a good Catholic, in my early twenties I wandered away. Years later I wandered back. The only two things my mother did were: set a good example and pray. Worked great.

 

[triumphguy]

I understand. Would anything your parents said or did have any bearing on your journey? Or was that beyond their control?

Over time I began to remember things they said.

I had young kids late in life. What has rejuvenated me was worrying about the faith I was going to pass on to my children, and it was my 80 year old mother who brought that topic up.

 

[Lokabrenna]

I don’t usually post in this section of the board because, not being a Catholic and certainly not an apologist, I feel as if I don’t have much to add to the discussions here. That said, as a child of Catholic parents, I feel like I should weigh in on this. In that light, please read this with a salt shaker handy.

You sound like you have been trying your hardest to raise your children in your faith and with your values, and I think it’s natural for a parent to want their kids to take after them in some way that goes beyond genetics.

However, and this is, again, coming from a non-Christian with Catholic parents, I think one of the worst things you can do is try to force them to be religious when they’re at that stage where they’re trying to forge a separate identity from their parents (around the teenage years, naturally). There’s no better way to build resentment and distaste for religion than to force feed it to people who might not want to hear about it right now. Perhaps they will want to hear about it when they’re older, or they might (like myself) leave the faith without looking back. It sounds like you’re doing the best you can, though, and that’s all you can do, IMHO.

 

[upbeatjonm]

I don’t usually post in this section of the board because, not being a Catholic and certainly not an apologist, I feel as if I don’t have much to add to the discussions here. That said, as a child of Catholic parents, I feel like I should weigh in on this. In that light, please read this with a salt shaker handy.

You sound like you have been trying your hardest to raise your children in your faith and with your values, and I think it’s natural for a parent to want their kids to take after them in some way that goes beyond genetics.

However, and this is, again, coming from a non-Christian with Catholic parents, I think one of the worst things you can do is try to force them to be religious when they’re at that stage where they’re trying to forge a separate identity from their parents (around the teenage years, naturally). There’s no better way to build resentment and distaste for religion than to force feed it to people who might not want to hear about it right now. Perhaps they will want to hear about it when they’re older, or they might (like myself) leave the faith without looking back. It sounds like you’re doing the best you can, though, and that’s all you can do, IMHO.

Thanks, this make a lot of sense. What frustrates me the most, is that their reasons for leaving are that it is incompatible with “science”. I am very convinced that science actually strengthens my faith, as I see beauty, purpose, and intelligence that chance cannot explain. So, when I bring up my views on science, they don’t want to read about it.

 

[upbeatjonm]

I don’t usually post in this section of the board because, not being a Catholic and certainly not an apologist, I feel as if I don’t have much to add to the discussions here. That said, as a child of Catholic parents, I feel like I should weigh in on this. In that light, please read this with a salt shaker handy.

You sound like you have been trying your hardest to raise your children in your faith and with your values, and I think it’s natural for a parent to want their kids to take after them in some way that goes beyond genetics.

However, and this is, again, coming from a non-Christian with Catholic parents, I think one of the worst things you can do is try to force them to be religious when they’re at that stage where they’re trying to forge a separate identity from their parents (around the teenage years, naturally). There’s no better way to build resentment and distaste for religion than to force feed it to people who might not want to hear about it right now. Perhaps they will want to hear about it when they’re older, or they might (like myself) leave the faith without looking back. It sounds like you’re doing the best you can, though, and that’s all you can do, IMHO.

Thanks, this make a lot of sense. What frustrates me the most, is that their reasons for leaving are that it is incompatible with “science”. I am very convinced that science actually strengthens my faith, as I see beauty, purpose, and intelligence that chance cannot explain. So, when I bring up my views on science, they don’t want to read about it. I think they are afraid it might take away their reason for leaving.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thanks, this make a lot of sense. What frustrates me the most, is that their reasons for leaving are that it is incompatible with “science”. I am very convinced that science actually strengthens my faith, as I see beauty, purpose, and intelligence that chance cannot explain. So, when I bring up my views on science, they don’t want to read about it.

Find some of the writing by quantum or nuclear physicists, who got to the end of their own knowledge about the universe (astrophysicists are also a good source) and realized that there could be no other explanation but a sentient God. I don’t have names for you but there are many. At a certain point, a lot of scientists, who are logical thinkers, realize that logic only takes you so far, or that using logic also leads you to a created (and loved) universe.

 

[cerad2]

Thanks, this make a lot of sense. What frustrates me the most, is that their reasons for leaving are that it is incompatible with “science”. I am very convinced that science actually strengthens my faith, as I see beauty, purpose, and intelligence that chance cannot explain. So, when I bring up my views on science, they don’t want to read about it. I think they are afraid it might take away their reason for leaving.

Just out of curiosity, how much research on science that reflects their views have you done? Have you ever studied something like “The God Delusion” or “The Grand Design”?

Personally I think you may be projecting your own feelings onto the kids. I doubt if they really spend much time at all contemplating religion. But if they do then at the very least you should be prepared to see their side of the story.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Are we wrong to worry and try to talk our kids into their faith? Or should we just let them walk away and respect their choice, like Jesus does?

I think at most you can express your feelings that you would like for them to change their position, but at the same time try to understand their reasons for leaving. Some times raising opposition to some one’s position will strengthen it and cause more defenses to be put up.

I don’t know the details of your specific situation or your relationship with your children, but for the ones with which I am familiar by the time the child has said anything to the parent they’ve already been thinking about their position for quite some time (often times years) but have kept it to themselves because of concerns about the reaction. If you think your children may have such a concern try not to do or say anything that may reinforce their reasons for being concerned as that could result in them closing up.

 

[LJH_80]

I challenge atheists to live like Christians (I also challenge Christians to live like atheists, but that’s another debate).

My advice would be to not push the Christian God, but simply propose a solution.

“Do you feel like you have a decent grasp of right and wrong?” Especially your 22 year old has almost certainly spent time coming up with his own morality and goals.

“Do you admit that sometimes you fall short of your own moral ideals?” Any honest person must admit they do, unless their morals are incredibly loose.

“Look back at your life, do you slack off more often when you’re not being observed by others, or when you think you can get away without notice?” Again, almost everyone does.

"So my challenge is to, for 1 month, pretend there is a god, but that this god is really just the best of you. Ignore the Bible, Qu’ran and everything everyone else says about god. You decide what the standards for right and wrong are (most atheists do this anyway). Now, for this one month, ever morning, say a prayer to this “god.” This prayer should be nothing formal, just 3 things.

1. ]Ask forgiveness for the times you fell short of your own ideals yesterday.]Say “thank you” for at least 3 things that you enjoy about your life.*]Tell “god” what your plan for living up to your potential today is. Understand that nobody but you is going to hold you to this list, but if you fall short, you’ll have to ask forgiveness for it tomorrow; and the only excuses you can use are the ones that would convince you.
   
   If there is no God, then big deal, you’re just talking to yourself, and it should only take 30 seconds of your day, 1 minute, tops.
   
   Then, after 1 month, look back at the month they’ve had, and ask themselves if they are happier with their life after that 1 month, compared to the month prior.
   If they’re not happier, then they’re not ready to even think about Christianity.
   If they are happier, then encourage them to keep up the practice secularly, but be open to the option that they’re not just talking to themselves.
   
   It’s not perfect, but it at least gets them walking some of the walk, so that if God chooses to reach out to them, there is less of a chasm that they’ll have to jump.

 

[upbeatjonm]

Just out of curiosity, how much research on science that reflects their views have you done? Have you ever studied something like “The God Delusion” or “The Grand Design”?

Personally I think you may be projecting your own feelings onto the kids. I doubt if they really spend much time at all contemplating religion. But if they do then at the very least you should be prepared to see their side of the story.

Of course I am going to project my feelings and interpretations to the kids. Anyone who claims being unbiased I don’t think is being honest. Can you honestly say Dawkins or Hitchins aren’t biased? Have they actually studied religion? hardly.

In my perspective, the athiests refuse to follow the evidence where it leads (intelligent creator), since by definition they can’t accept that. Certain areas of science have no problem looking for intelligence, such as SETI, or archeologists. But somehow they are precluded from seeing intelligence in DNA or the cell in general, even though the odds of being by change alone are infinitesimally small.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

In my perspective, the athiests refuse to follow the evidence where it leads (intelligent creator), since by definition they can’t accept that.

From what you see is that also what your children are doing?

Certain areas of science have no problem looking for intelligence, such as SETI, or archeologists. But somehow they are precluded from seeing intelligence in DNA or the cell in general, even though the odds of being by change alone are infinitesimally small.

I don’t think it’s a problem for archaeology since (at least in the USA) is an area of historical anthropology; that there existed humans at some places and time frames in the past is something that is seldom questioned.

As for SETI, if your children has based their view on it then they re basing it on a field of science (or psuedo-science, as some consider it) that has yet to find evidence of what it is seeking.

 

[upbeatjonm]

From what you see is that also what your children are doing?

I don’t think it’s a problem for archaeology since (at least in the USA) is an area of historical anthropology; that there existed humans at some places and time frames in the past is something that is seldom questioned.

As for SETI, if your children has based their view on it then they re basing it on a field of science (or psuedo-science, as some consider it) that has yet to find evidence of what it is seeking.

For SETI, they are looking for patterns that would indicate intelligence rather than random static, such as patterns of prime numbers, radio signals, etc. Why then can’t they reach the same conclusion when they see the digital code in DNA that is more complex than any computer program man has intelligently created?

 

[cerad2]

Of course I am going to project my feelings and interpretations to the kids. Anyone who claims being unbiased I don’t think is being honest. Can you honestly say Dawkins or Hitchins aren’t biased? Have they actually studied religion? hardly.

In my perspective, the athiests refuse to follow the evidence where it leads (intelligent creator), since by definition they can’t accept that. Certain areas of science have no problem looking for intelligence, such as SETI, or archeologists. But somehow they are precluded from seeing intelligence in DNA or the cell in general, even though the odds of being by change alone are infinitesimally small.

So that would be a no.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

For SETI, they are looking for patterns that would indicate intelligence rather than random static, such as patterns of prime numbers, radio signals, etc.

I’m familiar with them. I used to have the SETI@Home screensaver (back when I still used screen savers) running on my computer for the heck of it. But I say they’ve yet to find what they are seeking because as of yet they only seem to have identified a lot of space in which they haven’t found signs of life.

Why then can’t they reach the same conclusion when they see the digital code in DNA that is more complex than any computer program man has intelligently created?

If you are asking why your children don’t come to that conclusion I think the answer to that would best be found by trying to get a further understanding for what they are thinking. It may be worth trying to have conversations with them about their views while (for now) not trying to disprove anything they are thinking and instead work towards getting a better understanding.

 

[upbeatjonm]

I’m familiar with them. I used to have the SETI@Home screensaver (back when I still used screen savers) running on my computer for the heck of it. But I say they’ve yet to find what they are seeking because as of yet they only seem to have identified a lot of space in which they haven’t found signs of life.

My point was that they feel they would recognize signs of intelligence in this situation, but not what is right under their nose or microscope.

If you are asking why your children don’t come to that conclusion I think the answer to that would best be found by trying to get a further understanding for what they are thinking. It may be worth trying to have conversations with them about their views while (for now) not trying to disprove anything they are thinking and instead work towards getting a better understanding.

Good advice, thank you.

 

[katesmom]

My parents experienced the same thing with my brother. He was a Christian in his youth but most of his adult life he was atheist or agnostic. Just this week he made a public statement to all his friends that he is Born Again Christian. Obviously not Catholic but he is now attending a Baptist Church. We are all very happy for him regardless of his denomination.

Hopefully your children will remain open minded because even a little bit of open mindedness is all that is needed to re-spark their faith.

No need to push the issue, but discuss it with them.

Lead by example. Be open with your feelings and actions about your Faith.

I will always look up to my parents & they still influence me to this day

I will pray for you & your children