Levada the proof is in the pudding

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Fogny:
The 12:30 p.m. Sunday Mass at St. Margaret Mary’s is the only indult Mass celebrated in the Oakland Diocese, a diocese which serves 500,000 Catholics…
Fogny
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Take heart my friend. Please read this reply to the appointment of Levada on another website by (a very smart, I may add) poster who goes by the name of Salty Joe…

"Promotion doesn’t necessarily come with an increase of power. Sometimes, and if this were the case, one may use the saying, “keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”

I think that if Archbishop Levada were as weak and spineless as the liberal population would have wanted him to be, then we’d have seen an all homosexual military auxiliary from his Diocese volunteering for duty in Iraq and Afghanistan. We haven’t seen the advancement of evil as such.

Having Levada in the position he’s been promoted to gives a clear counter to liberal anti-Catholic (and less Orthodoxy) forces the clear statement, “Hey, what the heck are you complaining about? Your champion just had a HUGE promotion.”

I think we’ll witness liberal attacks against our promoted Archbishop Levada before long. And if attacks come, that’s sure to be good news."

Levada may have been moved to keep him under the thumb of our new Pope while promoting someone with a mind to the traditional Catholic, into the Diocese. Only time will tell. Just keep praying, especially to St. Monica.
 
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benedictusoblat:
…Language is used to communicate ideas. The use of “traditional Catholic” or “Tridentine Catholic” need not be an “official” term used by the hierarchy in “official” documents. That being said, there isn’t a bishop or cardinal in the world who wouldn’t understand the meaning of these terms.

Today is the feast of Pentecost - try a little harder to get along, for His sake.

Benedicite,
Benedictusoblatus
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It’s scary when Catholics define themselves as “traditional Catholics”, “tlm Catholics”, “tridentine Catholics”, etc. The sad thing is that the lunatic fringers tarnish the beauty of the Tridentine Mass in very real way.
 
Pariah Pirana:
It’s scary when Catholics define themselves as “traditional Catholics”, “tlm Catholics”, “tridentine Catholics”, etc. The sad thing is that the lunatic fringers tarnish the beauty of the Tridentine Mass in very real way.
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I must respectfully ask you, what do you want those who prefer a non-Charistmatic mass to call themselves?

It’s easy to say, “We are all Catholic.” but most of the people that I know who went to a TLM Holy Mass did it to escape the modernist liturgy being offered it their own parishes.

What should we refer to ourselves when we don’t feel like we belong there?
 
Fidei Defensor,
Okay. Good points. Well said, very balanced and charitable.

I am simply afraid that when Tridentines have problems, and we are bound to have problems, Benedict will say, okay I’ll pass this along to Levada. JPII passed these problems on to Ratzinger. But Ratzinger was very favorable to us, so we were in pretty good shape. But it is quite evident that Levada is opposed to the Tridentine Mass. The FSSP came to him 2 or 3 times and offered to say the Tridentine Mass, all expenses paid, but he flatly refused. And not because of the numbers, but because he is outright opposed to the Tridentine Mass.

That is why we are so disappointed. And we have a right to be. In his disciplinary decisions the Holy Father is fallible.
We were extremely optimistic, considering Pope Benedict’s numerous writings favoring the Tridentine rite, and how often he said exactly what we are saying. This was a very surprizing decision for us. But we will move on.

Pax et bonum!
Usque.

BTW, I want to send special greetings and prayers to those who have defended my side here. I am very thankful.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I must respectfully ask you, what do you want those who prefer a non-Charistmatic mass to call themselves?

It’s easy to say, “We are all Catholic.” but most of the people that I know who went to a TLM Holy Mass did it to escape the modernist liturgy being offered it their own parishes.

What should we refer to ourselves when we don’t feel like we belong there?
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A Catholic. It doesn’t need any other qualifier. I agree with you about the “charismatic” mass, and the haphazard mass and the “theme” mass, but the question here seems to be more centered around why Levada did this. If only 85 evidenced any desire, I can see a bishop saying,“Look, not that many are interested, so I’m going to say no.”
 
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JKirkLVNV:
A Catholic. It doesn’t need any other qualifier. I agree with you about the “charismatic” mass, and the haphazard mass and the “theme” mass, but the question here seems to be more centered around why Levada did this. If only 85 evidenced any desire, I can see a bishop saying,“Look, not that many are interested, so I’m going to say no.”
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Whatever happened to “feed my sheep”

Fogny
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
On these forums we do.
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Why? There is no need to label and pidgeon-hole people. “Catholic” is sufficient in everything that matters. All a label does is assist in pre-judging others.

I am pleased to see what a fine man we have for Holy Father. Even if I wasn’t I would never come out and slam on his decisions. No one here has not been in conference with the Holy Father and knows his reasoning or wisdom.

There is no one who could be chosen who would have pleased the more extreme traditionalists, or liberals, and some people would not have been happy with anyone.
 
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Fogny:
Whatever happened to “feed my sheep”

Fogny
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The feed is there in the form of Jesus’ body and blood. You must take the initiative and eat.
 
Reply: Bishop Levada and Tridentine Mass. Read the Father Hecht (sp?) section of the book: Priest Where Is Thy Mass? Mass Where Is Thy Priest?
 
As I’ve said before, I favor the Indult, but we are short of PRIESTS. I can see Archbishop Levada saying,“I’m sorry, but no” to only 85 people.
 
Again, the FSSP IS NOT. In fact, the FSSP is packed, they are short of apostolates! They offered two or three times to send someone, expenses paid. but he refused.

God Bless,
Usque.
 
As I’ve said before, I favor the Indult, but we are short of PRIESTS. I can see Archbishop Levada saying,“I’m sorry, but no” to only 85 people.
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I can see where Archbishop Levada (or any prelate for that matter) saying nyet to a regular Sunday mass for so few people considering the manpower shortage, but it would be equitable to have a weekday Latin mass, maybe just monthly to start?
 
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pnewton:
Why? There is no need to label and pidgeon-hole people. “Catholic” is sufficient in everything that matters. All a label does is assist in pre-judging others.

There is no one who could be chosen who would have pleased the more extreme traditionalists, or liberals, and some people would not have been happy with anyone.
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I agree that no could have been chosen to please all. However, people themselves use labels to find like-minded folk.
I am a Polish-American. My girls perform Polish Folk Dance. My adopted African-American sister is interested in seeing them, I think not too many other African-Americans would be spending money to see them. Likewise, when we pay to see African dancers, it is only because we have African relatives.
My hubby labels himself a geek, get it?

In the Catholic Church, those that have been non-modernists have been told for many years, get used to what we have. The first Post Vatican II Holy Masses were wonderful, then the modernists got in and now, the Holy NO Masses are few and far between.

I have called myself conservative, only to be told not to be political, a traditionalist, only to be told that I am wrong to say that, and when I grabbed the term “Deep Catholic” from another forum, got into trouble.

I ask, because I want to know, what am I to call myself. I am not Catholic like the Charismatics of my old parish, or the modernists of the one before.

There are differences. There is no reason to sweep it under the rug.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I ask, because I want to know, what am I to call myself.
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Why do you need to “call” yourself anything?

Look, depending on the issue and on who else is involved in the discussion, I’ve had just about every label imaginable applied to me. I don’t like hand-holding at the Our Father? I must be a conservative, then. Oh, but I don’t agree with certain things said about pre-VII days? I’m a flaming modernist, so say some.

Let your opinions on the individual issues speak for themselves. Leave the petty partisan “taking of sides” to the politicians. Labels only polarize and divide unnecessarily. As does pretending that certain groups formally exist (as discussed earlier in the thread), when in fact they do not.
 
RCN,

I am sorry you have had to endure that. We aren’t calling you any names.
But the point is that Traditional Catholics have a distinct identity. Your displeasure at that fact can’t change, and won’t change it. We are attached to the Tridentine liturgy, which is distinct (and very different I might add) from the Pauline Mass.
We are in love with the Tridentine Liturgy, we are relieved from liturgical abuse, and we don’t mind being called Traditional or Tridentine. (In fact, that is how we refer to ourselves)
If you are happy with the Novus Ordo, God be with you! It is valid and error free in its Latin edition! You are just as much as Catholics. You worship the same Christ, you belong to the same Church, you are obedient to the same Pope.

Call us political, heretical, schismatic, scary, divisive…call us whatever you want. May God be praised for the Tridentine Mass and for the Tridentine movement!

God be with you!
Usque.
 
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usqueadmortem:
RCN,

I am sorry you have had to endure that. We aren’t calling you any names.
But the point is that Traditional Catholics have a distinct identity. Your displeasure at that fact can’t change, and won’t change it. We are attached to the Tridentine liturgy, which is distinct (and very different I might add) from the Pauline Mass.
We are in love with the Tridentine Liturgy, we are relieved from liturgical abuse, and we don’t mind being called Traditional or Tridentine. (In fact, that is how we refer to ourselves)
If you are happy with the Novus Ordo, God be with you! It is valid and error free in its Latin edition! You are just as much as Catholics. You worship the same Christ, you belong to the same Church, you are obedient to the same Pope.

Call us political, heretical, schismatic, scary, divisive…call us whatever you want. May God be praised for the Tridentine Mass and for the Tridentine movement!

God be with you!
Usque.
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That’s the spirit Usque!
You are sooo right on the Money!
Let them call us every mean spirited name in their book. We are loyal, we accept the new Mass, But if we chose to call ourselves “Tridentine Catholics” that is our perogative.
Because, thanks be to God we have the best thing this side of heaven. The glorious Tridentine Mass! We are growing! And our prayer ascending to the Eternal Father, will wipe away all misunderstanding.

To our fellow Catholics united under his Holiness Pope Benedict XVI
Our styling ourselves “Tridentine Catholics” in no way denigrates the normative celebration of the Holy Mass under the Missal of Paul VI
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I agree that no could have been chosen to please all. However, people themselves use labels to find like-minded folk.
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Thank you for you solid answer. I stand corrected. I still thinking labeling has the above dangers when applied outward towards others, but your explanation on why you label yourself here makes a great deal of sense. We should be tolerant of those who choose to associate with a specific subgroup.

I always get a kick out of those here which allude labels and jump from group to group (apparently), though, especially the conservative/liberal type.
 
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pnewton:
Thank you for you solid answer. I stand corrected. I still thinking labeling has the above dangers when applied outward towards others, but your explanation on why you label yourself here makes a great deal of sense. We should be tolerant of those who choose to associate with a specific subgroup.

I always get a kick out of those here which allude labels and jump from group to group (apparently), though, especially the conservative/liberal type.
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God Bless you!
That’s what I want, a sub-group!
Spot on.

Okay so what is it?🙂
 
Perhaps Pope Benedict is calling for openness to ALL legitimate orders & movements
In a book called ‘God and the World’ in which journalist Peter Seewald, interviews Cardinal Ratzinger, the Cardinal, who is head of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith, (before he was elected Pope Benedict) talked about the Church’s need for ongoing renewal. He said, ‘She {the Church} does certainly need outbreaks of living spirituality. Forms of that kind, in which a new passion for faith emerges that is not politically contrived but has developed from within, have been important for the Church in every age. We have seen how in the 16th century the renewal did not come from institutional authority but through people who were gripped by God and created new movements. This is happening today in a great variety of forms - the charismatic movement is one of them - and this is, you might say, the consolation the Lord sends us by showing that the Holy Spirit is present and still powerful’.
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