Levels In Heaven

[LSG]

How does one answer the question “Are there different levels of closeness to God in Heaven?” I was asked this question by a child, who was very concerned about being good enough to be with God and with their favorite saint in Heaven.

 

[blacktiger057]

Well, in the spiritual dimension, there are lower planes, which may be called hell but are very similiar to earth. It’s on a low vibration so that’s why demons are found there. Then as you move up the planes there are less demons, eventually getting to none, and just higher levels of pure compassion and light, heaven being the highest. While we can astral project to some of these planes(It’s awesome if ya know how) we’ll never be able to project to ‘heaven’. I’ve done three higher level projections, and when I came back to my body I cried because the love was just so powerful. Amazing experience.

Scott

Reccommended Reading for learning astral projection: Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce. Mastering Astral Projection In 90 Days by Robert Bruce. www.astraldynamics.com

 

[paramedicgirl]

Well, in the spiritual dimension, there are lower planes, which may be called hell but are very similiar to earth. It’s on a low vibration so that’s why demons are found there. Then as you move up the planes there are less demons, eventually getting to none, and just higher levels of pure compassion and light, heaven being the highest. While we can astral project to some of these planes(It’s awesome if ya know how) we’ll never be able to project to ‘heaven’. I’ve done three higher level projections, and when I came back to my body I cried because the love was just so powerful. Amazing experience.

Scott

Reccommended Reading for learning astral projection: Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce. Mastering Astral Projection In 90 Days by Robert Bruce. www.astraldynamics.com

Umm…Scott, I think the OP is looking for the Catholic perspective.

This thread really belongs in Apologetics.

 

[LilyM]

The thing is everyone in Heaven is eternally and supremely happy, not lacking anything.

Regardless of whether there are different ‘levels’ there’s no such thing as being jealous or less than perfectly happy for any reason once you’ve made it to Heaven.

 

[BobP123]

The thing is everyone in Heaven is eternally and supremely happy, not lacking anything.

Regardless of whether there are different ‘levels’ there’s no such thing as being jealous or less than perfectly happy for any reason once you’ve made it to Heaven.

I think they call it Beatific Vision. And Hell is the absence of it.

 

[blacktiger057]

From Catholic perspective, I think there used to be like some order of archangels, like seraphims and cherubims, but I think that belief kind of died…

No one on Earth will really know what heaven is like till they die, though. All we can do is guess. Also, Robert Bruce is not only Chrisitna, but Catholic as well. How is that not a Catholic view on heaven?

 

[paramedicgirl]

There is mention of a third heaven in the bible, and also of many mansions, which is understood to represent levels of heaven. It makes sense that people of greater piety like the great saints achieve a higher level of heaven than someone who just made it to heaven by the skin of their teeth!

1 2 Corinthians 12
2 I know a man in Christ above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not, or out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one caught up to the third heaven.

1 John 14
2 In my Father’s house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you.

 

[BobP123]

I often wondered: if you accept greater time in Purgatory, will that take you to a higher level of the Beatific Vision?

 

[paramedicgirl]

I often wondered: if you accept greater time in Purgatory, will that take you to a higher level of the Beatific Vision?

How do you “accept” greater time in purgatory, though?

 

[blacktiger057]

I personally don’t believe in purgatory, but I guess it could be like the middle of the planes where souls have to ‘finish up everything’ so to speak. But it isn’t in the Bible…

 

[paramedicgirl]

I personally don’t believe in purgatory, but I guess it could be like the middle of the planes where souls have to ‘finish up everything’ so to speak. But it isn’t in the Bible…

The word “purgatory” isn’t in the bible, but the concept is.

1 Matthew 5
26 Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.

1 Matthew 8
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

2 Matthew 13
42 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

4 Matthew 22
13 Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

6 Matthew 25
30 And the unprofitable servant cast ye out into the exterior darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1 2 Machabees 12
46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

To explain it to a child, you could use the cup example. You have a whole bunch of cups and they’re all different shapes and sizes. All of them are filled to the brim. That’s what it’s like in Heaven: we are all entirely filled with God’s presence. Some of us can hold more and some less, but none of us are left wanting because we’re absolutely filled to the top. No one will “miss the mark” and make it to Heaven, but not get to be with God.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

How does one answer the question “Are there different levels of closeness to God in Heaven?” I was asked this question by a child, who was very concerned about being good enough to be with God and with their favorite saint in Heaven.

There are different levels of closeness to God, the more true love you display in your life on earth corresponds to a greater ability to enjoy the Beatific Vision (being in Heaven seeing/experiencing God).

Here is one example of how to think about it…The more you read the more educated you become, and the more educated you are the more you can enjoy/understand the truly great works of literature, art, music, etc. While you are still the same person, your capacity to enjoy/understand has increased. A child who cant read cant enjoy how great good literature, art, music, etc is, though they can enjoy it to an extent.

Now, think about how this corresponds to a Christian, the more love they display in this life, the more “spiritually mature” they get, and as a result the “closer to God” they get.

 

[Greg27]

Dante gave a very beautiful vision of heaven in which everyone and everything is perfectly harmonised with God and God’s will; even for those in the ‘lowest’ level are happy and fulfilled.

Dionysius the Aeropagite, in his theological works, wrote a lot about the levels of angels. Basically for him angels and their levels mirror the light of God, just as sensible creation is a ‘theophany’ of God’s beauty and glory. The highest angels are the most beautiful and radiant, while those lower down in the heirarchy have the light and beauty communicated to them in a different but lower way. Hans urs Von Balthasar rightly noted this was an artistic creation, an attempt to harmomise and arrange invisible realities and forms into a beautiful and coherent whole, to give a luminous theological message. The images of Dante are the same.

Now heaven is seen in more an existential light; death and entry into heaven basically mean entry into the prescence of God, which is eternal happiness and bliss.

In my own view, angels or levels of heaven are simply symbols the human mind can use as ‘ciphers’ (to use the phrase of Jaspers) to make the incomprehensible real and tangible to our minds. I don’t believe the human mind can have direct access of any kind to a trans-temporal reality we will only meet after death, and even the visions of mystics should be seen as experiences of the numinous mediated by sense perception and language and imagination rather than a direct vision of either God or whatever exists beyond death. Christians should content themselves with Paul’s promise that ‘What no eye can see, no ear can hear, nor what can enter into the mind of man, God has prepared for those who love him.’

 

[LilyM]

How do you “accept” greater time in purgatory, though?

There’s something called the ‘Heroic Act’, whereby you offer all your prayers, good works, indulgences and so on for the benefit of the souls in Purgatory.

Implicitly you’re offering to serve your full time, since none of 'em will be applied to your own self. Which is greater time than you otherwise would have.

 

[BobP123]

The word “purgatory” isn’t in the bible, but the concept is.

Thanks for your references. Here are some more to consider: (Source: Apologetics Concordance, 1999)

Mt 5:48 - be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect
Heb 12:14 - strive for that holiness w/o which cannot see God
Jam 3:2 - we all fall short in many respects
Rev 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven
1 Jn 5:16-17 - degrees of sins distinguished
2 Sam 12:13-14 - David, though forgiven, still punished for sin
Mt 12:36 - account for every idle word on judgment day
2 Macc 12:44-46 - atoned for dead to free them from sin
1 Cor 3:15 - suffer loss, but saved as through fire
1 Pet 3:18-20; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in prison
2 Tim 1:16-18 - Paul prays for dead friend Onesiphorus

 

[BobP123]

There’s something called the ‘Heroic Act’, whereby you offer all your prayers, good works, indulgences and so on for the benefit of the souls in Purgatory.

My understanding is also that those in Purgatory are able to pray for the living but not for themselves.

Deals anyone?

 

[DL82]

How does one answer the question “Are there different levels of closeness to God in Heaven?” I was asked this question by a child, who was very concerned about being good enough to be with God and with their favorite saint in Heaven.

How to explain it to a child.

How about the analogy of a cup - a little egg-cup is perfectly full with just a little bit of water, but a big bucket can take more water.

In heaven, both are perfectly full, but they remain different sized cups. They both have the beatific vision to the extent that their souls can bear.

 

[paramedicgirl]

There’s something called the ‘Heroic Act’, whereby you offer all your prayers, good works, indulgences and so on for the benefit of the souls in Purgatory.

Implicitly you’re offering to serve your full time, since none of 'em will be applied to your own self. Which is greater time than you otherwise would have.

What I understand of the Heroic Act is that your generosity will not go unrewarded, and those whom your suffrages freed from Purgatory will be praying for you, as well as the belief that God cannot be outdone in generosity, so it is unlikely that one who has the courage to make the Heroic Act will actually be spending a great deal of time in Purgatory.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

What I understand of the Heroic Act is that your generosity will not go unrewarded, and those whom your suffrages freed from Purgatory will be praying for you, as well as the belief that God cannot be outdone in generosity, so it is unlikely that one who has the courage to make the Heroic Act will actually be spending a great deal of time in Purgatory.

If your motives are selfish then it’s a huge risk. If you really are a generous person, then it becomes the obvious thing to do.