Levels of Heaven

[Kaily]

Hello,

I heard on Catholic radio the other day someone speaking about some saint, I did not catch the name of the saint, who said that there are levels in Heaven and how some souls may not actually get to see God, does anyone know what saint this is who had these revelations or visions or whatever. I would be interested in looking up this saint if I can find out who it is. I have heard something like this before and I also believe there are different levels to Heaven but I wasn’t aware that some may not even get to see God.

Thanks for the help,
God Bless You all!
Kaily

 

[Fergal]

A simple remedy for this. Each and every time you look on the Host, your place in Heaven is raised forever. This was revealed by St Gertrude.

 

[Saint_Andrew]

Hello

Not too sure about levels of Heaven, but there is levels of purgatory I have been led to believe.

God Bless
Saint Andrew.

 

[mgarstin]

The only souls that would not get to see God are those unbaptized, according to the magesterium. I also heard that everytime we receive communion our place in heaven is raised. I think that is from Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich.

 

[Blanka]

I am not aware of Catholic belief in different levels of Heaven. Of course, there is Purgatory but that is not Heaven.
I do not know what program you were listening to but I wonder if they might have been talking about the book **Interior Castle **by St. Teresa of Avila where she describes the spiritual life and likens it to a huge castle filled with many interior mansions. As we deepen in our spirituality and become closer to God, we enter the castle (first just in the anteroom where we are still easily distracted by ungodly things but where we at least have a desire to know God) but if we persevere in our spiritual quest, we are able to progress further and further into the castle toward God who is fully present in the center. (Her description of the spiritual life is really quite profound, especially the description of how those with no religious life and no desires toward God are outside the castle swimming in the moat that is filled with reptiles. I think some of us unfortunately can identify with that state! :bigyikes: )

 

[Kyenta]

Maria Simma who was a devout Catholic who lived in Austria and given the grace to suffer for the souls in Purgatory and was interviewed for the book, “Get us out of Here” says that indeed Heaven has levels. She said that everyone in Heaven is completely happy but those such as Saints and Martyrs are given higher reverence thus a higher level in Heaven. Makes sense to me.

 

[Fergal]

Kyenta:

Maria Simma who was a devout Catholic who lived in Austria and given the grace to suffer for the souls in Purgatory and was interviewed for the book, “Get us out of Here” says that indeed Heaven has levels. She said that everyone in Heaven is completely happy but those such as Saints and Martyrs are given higher reverence thus a higher level in Heaven. Makes sense to me.

Oh boy that Simma stuff is dangerous. Not at all to be endorsed.
Once we make it to Heaven we are all Saints. So I would rubbish that Simma advice for a start.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friends

Any soul knowing the great Goodness of God and His Glory will ask to go to purgatory in order to be worthy of Him in Heaven.

Once a Holy Soul is released from purgatory through God’s Grace by the merit of the Church Militant and the Sacrifice of Christ Jesus that soul released is a Saint. There are many wonderful and Saintly people upon this earth that God Himself prefers to not become known to the Church in this life, but their merits by His Grace be known in the next.

To think of Heaven in such a manner as having levels clings to the physical and material realm. Heaven is a spiritual realm and that Kingdom of Heaven is to begin here in this life, not as we would will heaven to be, but as taught by Christ Jesus; a road of love, kindness, mercy , suffering, good works, sacrifice, prayer, seeking God and union with Him etc. The outward signs of heaven are the Sacraments and the physical Body of the Church, the people and the buildings but foremostly the Eucharist!

In order to be born into eternal life we must relinquish this mortal frame and our time of testing and trial as well as our opportunity to LOVE, embrace suffering and earn merit has ceased. We at this point have come to the point of just reward for our mortal life. This mortal life which we do not even merit but was granted to us as pure gift!

There are no levels to heaven, rather it is a ‘state’ before God that is our reward. All are equal for God as all are His children and in His Kingdom all receive His love equally, none being favourite above another. God is unchanging, He loves all equally here in His Kingdom on this earth, in this life, this love of the Merciful Almighty is not spent and weighed out differently in the next life! All are seen in His Son Christ Jesus of which the faithful are of His Mystical Body. To divide the Mystical Body into lesser parts is an absurdity!

The only souls that will not enjoy and contemplate the Beatific Vision for eternity are those who go to hell and they go to hell because that is what they choose and no-one prayed for them. Please God that hell is empty!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Shoshana]

springbreeze:

Dear friends

To divide the Mystical Body into lesser parts is an absurdity!

The only souls that will not enjoy and contemplate the Beatific Vision for eternity are those who go to hell and they go to hell because that is what they choose and no-one prayed for them. Please God that hell is empty!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

If there are different levels of hell as described by St Faustina and St John Bosco, well, the same is true of heaven. We will get we deserve in heaven or hell…a brand new pair of jeans for a six-year old is just as gratefully accepted by him as a new pair of jeans for a 16 year old. And this could even be said true of at my age!

 

[Fergal]

springbreeze:

To think of Heaven in such a manner as having levels clings to the physical and material realm.

There are no levels to heaven, rather it is a ‘state’ before God that is our reward. All are equal for God as all are His children and in His Kingdom all receive His love equally, none being favourite above another. God is unchanging, He loves all equally here in His Kingdom on this earth, in this life, this love of the Merciful Almighty is not spent and weighed out differently in the next life! All are seen in His Son Christ Jesus of which the faithful are of His Mystical Body. To divide the Mystical Body into lesser parts is an absurdity!

The only souls that will not enjoy and contemplate the Beatific Vision for eternity are those who go to hell and they go to hell because that is what they choose and no-one prayed for them. Please God that hell is empty!

Teresa

Hi Teresa! Nice post but what could Our Lord have possibly meant when he said "19 Qui ergo solverit unum de mandatis istis minimis, et docuerit sic homines, minimus vocabitur in regno cælorum : qui autem fecerit et docuerit, hic magnus vocabitur in regno cælorum.", (“19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”) Matt 5:19

And whilst I agree with you that all who go to Heaven will see God, (after all it is said during the Eucharistic Prayer in Masses for the Dead) Maybe Heaven will be like a giant stadium and those in front get to see Him better! Those at the back may have to strain and squint a little but they will still be able to see Him. Enough banter…

God in the passage presented here seems to suggest levels whether in Heaven or on Earth.

 

[springbreeze]

Shoshana:

If there are different levels of hell as described by St Faustina and St John Bosco, well, the same is true of heaven. We will get we deserve in heaven or hell…a brand new pair of jeans for a six-year old is just as gratefully accepted by him as a new pair of jeans for a 16 year old. And this could even be said true of at my age!

Dear Soshana

Hello, I hope you are well.

Hell is not comparable with Heaven. Satan being the exact opposite of God. (satan being not the Creator but a destroyer/corruptor of souls, not good but evil etc) Hell, satan and all the evils spirits being all that God is not.

So in Heaven we spend eternity contemplating, living, adoring, praising, and loving all that God is, in hell souls endure evil for all eternity.

Those who would deem themselves first in heaven may find themselves last! That doesn’t physically equate to a level, more that it eqautes to the state of the soul for all eternity.

We speak of the state of the soul here in this life and we strive to achieve a Christ-like state of soul in that we are re-created into His likeness. We talk of mortal sin and the state of the soul carrying such an unabsolved sin.

The late Pontiff Pope John Paul II wrote about heaven not being a physicality as we perceive it but rather a state of soul and this I believe is true. We are to have a glorified body if we make it to heaven, but we do not know the nature of that body. I believe it is possible to have a spiritual body, well anything is possible with God! I have pondered this and I believe that the body is a perceptible body but not a body as we have presently. A body that is perceptible as being a body wherein the spirit resides and is perceptible by spirit to others in heaven. I think this ‘state’ of soul reveals the merits of the soul, but doesn’t cease the soul from being fully part of heaven. The reward Christ Jesus grants is the reward in the ‘state’ of the soul, I suppose this could be referred to as a kind of level, but not in proximity to the Beatific Vision

I cannot accept that some of those who go to heaven will never see God. They may as well be in hell. I would say it is counter to Catholic teaching to say such a thing as there are people in heaven who will not see God. I think this is some errant theological pondering someone has stumbled upon and thinks it might be a goer. It isn’t a goer for me!

God is Merciful and Kind, He is LOVE. He wants His children with Him, He does not want them apart from Him and He wants them with Him for all eternity, to live forever with Him in the company of Him and all of the heavenly court.

I’m sorry I have to disagree with you.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[springbreeze]

Fergal:

Hi Teresa! Nice post but what could Our Lord have possibly meant when he said "19 Qui ergo solverit unum de mandatis istis minimis, et docuerit sic homines, minimus vocabitur in regno cælorum : qui autem fecerit et docuerit, hic magnus vocabitur in regno cælorum.", (“19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”) Matt 5:19

And whilst I agree with you that all who go to Heaven will see God, (after all it is said during the Eucharistic Prayer in Masses for the Dead) Maybe Heaven will be like a giant stadium and those in front get to see Him better! Those at the back may have to strain and squint a little but they will still be able to see Him. Enough banter…

God in the passage presented here seems to suggest levels whether in Heaven or on Earth.

Dear Fergal

I like the banter! . I hope it isn’t a stadium, there’s always long queues for the toilets at those places!:whacky:

But, those who break the commandments and teach others to do so, sin and possibly mortally and if they are not confessed may well surely not go to heaven. Our Lord here is referring to what Heaven is full of joy over. Heaven is joyful when God’s children keep the commandments and teach others to do the same by example of their own life primarily and also by spreading the Gospel verbally wherever necessary as a work of Mercy and evangelisation. These are those who cause great joy in heaven especially when souls repent as a result of it. These are the greatest in this way.

But heaven is sorrowful over those who break the commandments and lead others to do the same, these are the least of God’s children and if they do not repent even on their death bed will not find themselves in Heaven but by their own choice have chosen hell.

It also teaches us alot about what is known of this life by the Angels and Saints in Heaven and adds to our need to beg for their intercession.

This passage doesn’t refer to who will be lesser and greater in the Kingdom of Heaven, if it did it would contradict Sacred Scripture and Catholic Tradition.

Even if it did talk about levels in Heaven they are not levels of distance from God but rather a ‘state’ of the soul now set for all eternity with no possible glory to be added to the ‘state’ of the soul and so that is the ‘level’ it is at for all eternity. Heaven is heaven not a 45 staged apartment store where souls exist on different levels of it, rather all souls are in heaven and worship and enjoy the Beatifc Vision eternally with the ‘state’ of the soul they have achieved in this life by God’s grace.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Joysong]

Dear Kaily,

Yes, I remember years ago having discussed this in bible study with our Director of Religious Ed. I, too, forget the name of the saint, but the Director gave us an example that I did not forget. It was explained to us under the image of a water vessel. A glass of water experiences fullness according to its capacity, just as a tiny thimble of water may be equally full. Each person, according to their works on earth, will receive the reward promised by God, and will be fully happy in His presence. Some will be full with a larger measure of water, but each will experience glory and rejoice in God accordingly.

I remember reading from St. Teresa of Avila, that St. Peter of Alcantara appeared to her after his death and revealed to her the high degree of glory his extraordinary penances had won for him. She herself said that she would do all she could on earth, to attain to one more degree of blessedness in heaven.

As for some not seeing God, — well, that is pure piffle!

Carole

 

[Fergal]

I don’t think I could go so far as to say there are no levels in heaven, but that is solely based on my own ignorance. Whatever about levels there are certainly places within Heaven right? From what I remember, sacred Scripture tells us there are many levels of authority in heaven. (archangels, angels, cheribim, seraphim, etc.) How does belief in levels in Heaven contradict church teaching?

Surely the Blessed Virgin Mary has a special place in Heaven which would have a higher levels than our own?

Remember Jesus said that the places at His left and right are not His to give but His Fathers?

Many Church Fathers and mystics have spoken about our ‘place in Heaven’ for example, St Gertrude tod us that each and every time we gaze on the sacred Host our place in Heaven in raised forever.

Aren’t distinctions are made between the status of Old Testament saints and New Testament saints, infants who died prior to baptism and those who were baptized, for example?

And didn’t Jesus himself say that He was going to prepare a place in Heaven for each one of us?

I need to do more study on this!!! I’m excited about this one!!!

 

[Shoshana]

Joysong:

Dear Kaily,

Yes, I remember years ago having discussed this in bible study with our Director of Religious Ed. I, too, forget the name of the saint, but the Director gave us an example that I did not forget. It was explained to us under the image of a water vessel. A glass of water experiences fullness according to its capacity, just as a tiny thimble of water may be equally full. Each person, according to their works on earth, will receive the reward promised by God, and will be fully happy in His presence. Some will be full with a larger measure of water, but each will experience glory and rejoice in God accordingly.

And this is what I was trying to explain by my jeans’ story. Actually it was our pastor who shared this with the RCIA.

 

[Shoshana]

St Faustina was told that she was going to hold a very prominent place in heaven. I am trying to find the page.

This being the case, chances are even if I love Jesus as best as I can, I will not be sitting side by side with her in heaven:nope: . Or any other prominent Saints in our history.

I will probably be glorifying God that I even made it! :yup:

 

[Joysong]

Dear Shoshana,

Yup, I hear you about the jeans … Just a different setting, huh?

Thinking a bit about your last post, I remembered a good point made by St. Paul about the unity of the body of Christ, each having their own particular function, but all vitally necessary.
"The eye cannot say to the hand, “I do not need you.” And if all the body were hearing, where would be the smelling? (1 Cor. 12:21).

The ending has the beautiful punch line, “And if one member suffers anything, all the members suffer with it, or if one member glories, all the members rejoice with it!”

I picture heaven as a wonderful place where there is no envy or jealousy, but if one member is more glorified, all the members will rejoice with it." It makes sense to me that those who more fully cooperated with God’s will for them will be more greatly honored for their fidelity and service, but we will love them fully and be completely happy to see them so exalted – rejoicing together!

Like you, I will be happy just to enter the gate and sit at the lowest place at table!

Carole

 

[buzzcut]

St Paul mentions in II Co 12:2 a “third heaven.” So there must be many.

 

[DBT]

Joysong:

It was explained to us under the image of a water vessel. A glass of water experiences fullness according to its capacity, just as a tiny thimble of water may be equally full. Each person, according to their works on earth, will receive the reward promised by God, and will be fully happy in His presence. Some will be full with a larger measure of water, but each will experience glory and rejoice in God accordingly.

Coincidences are truely an amazing thing

When I first saw this thread I said to myself “Wow” - this is exactly what we talked about in our monthly formation meeting in Carmel this weekend. (And, I might add, it was probably the most “animated” discussion I’ve ever seen there )

Carole, the example you cite is the very one made by our formation director. All in heaven will experience the beatific vision but, perhaps, in different ways.

Dave.

 

[Exporter]

John 14: 1-3." Let not your heart be troubled, you believe in God, believe also in Me.

1. In my Father’s house there are many mansions, if it were not so, I would have told you."

Many mansions. He did not say all of the mansions were exactly alike! He did not say they were all different either. So we don’t have Scriptual proof that there are several “levels” in heaven. The words of Emmerich were never said by the Vatican to be doctrine.