Levels of sin

[SaintInk]

Hi,

I am looking for a historical explanation of how the church came about defining the different levels of sin (venial, mortal etc).

It would seem with reason and logic that sin is sin regardless, and trying to manufacture thresholds of how each type of sin affects your soul is not necessarily “infallible”, but human and flawed.

Perhaps the “levels” of sin are needed to decide when to use confession before we take the Eucharist?

Either way, where did this come from? Was this implemented at a specific council as an “understanding” of the church? Is there scripture discussing it I have not seen? What purpose is their to it truly?

I know in scripture tells us “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord”

It would make sense under this pretense to try and define some threshold of a worthy manner…

Anyways, if anyone knows how these levels of sin became defined in the church please share.

 

[rep140]

You raise a good point. The catechism uses words line “intrinsically evil”, “grave matter”, “disordered”, etc. I wish it just listed sins under one of two columns; mortal or venial.

 

[Spencerian]

Hi,

I am looking for a historical explanation of how the church came about defining the different levels of sin (venial, mortal etc).

It would seem with reason and logic that sin is sin regardless, and trying to manufacture thresholds of how each type of sin affects your soul is not necessarily “infallible”, but human and flawed.

Perhaps the “levels” of sin are needed to decide when to use confession before we take the Eucharist?

Either way, where did this come from? Was this implemented at a specific council as an “understanding” of the church? Is there scripture discussing it I have not seen? What purpose is their to it truly?

I know in scripture tells us “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord”

It would make sense under this pretense to try and define some threshold of a worthy manner…

Anyways, if anyone knows how these levels of sin became defined in the church please share.

Hi, there.

Scripture defines sins are “deadly” and “not deadly” (mortal or venial) in 1 John 5:16-17.

The Church Fathers acknowledged and defined mortal and venial sins as well, very early in Church history, per this Catholic.com tract…

Hopefully others have more scholarly information to aid you.

 

[Bookcat]

…

 

[Spencerian]

You raise a good point. The catechism uses words line “intrinsically evil”, “grave matter”, “disordered”, etc. I wish it just listed sins under one of two columns; mortal or venial.

I was curious, too, on this. Here’s my take on it after reading a bit more of the CCC.

When something is called “intrinsically evil”, “grave matter” or “disordered,” it’s akin to evidence in a court trial. Like evidence, acts of grave matter or intrinsic evil are not sins (or, to put another word to it, conviction) per se.

So to do something intrinsically evil, or grave, or disordered is *evidence *of sin.

You are “convicted” of sin when the three prime criteria are applied to the “evidence” above:

1. The sin must be a grave (or serious) matter.
2. The sin is committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense
3. The sin is committed with deliberate and complete consent, enough for it to have been a personal decision to commit the sin.

That makes more sense as you see the terms intertwine.

 

[Spencerian]

this site is NOT Catholic…it is working contrary to the Church…

Thanks for the note.

The information appeared accurate enough on a quick read, but if this is actually a site that is trying to draw others away, my apologies. I’ll pull that link.

 

[Bookcat]

From the Compedium of the Catechism

1. When does one commit a mortal sin?

1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.

1. When does one commit a venial sin?

1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

Catechism:

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 …

So there is something under each of them

put the words ‘grave sin’ and later do "grave’-- in this search engine…scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

a number of things in the ccc are actually noted as grave …or when they become grave…

can do the same with the compendium but use the find option on your computer …

vatican.va/archive/compen…um-ccc_en.html

also there is an index in the back of the CCC that refers you to individual grave sins…but be careful…for it is not necessarily part of the ccc…(not sure who put it together) and can refer you to general catagories…where not everything is grave that is there…

 

[Bookcat]

You are “convicted” of sin when the three prime criteria are applied to the “evidence” above:

1. The sin must be a grave (or serious) matter.
2. The sin is committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense
3. The sin is committed with deliberate and complete consent, enough for it to have been a personal decision to commit the sin.

That makes more sense as you see the terms intertwine.

for moral sin…

venial sins need not these factors of course

 

[Bookcat]

Hi,

I am looking for a historical explanation of how the church came about defining the different levels of sin (venial, mortal etc).

It would seem with reason and logic that sin is sin regardless, and trying to manufacture thresholds of how each type of sin affects your soul is not necessarily “infallible”, but human and flawed.

Perhaps the “levels” of sin are needed to decide when to use confession before we take the Eucharist?

Either way, where did this come from? Was this implemented at a specific council as an “understanding” of the church? Is there scripture discussing it I have not seen? What purpose is their to it truly?

I know in scripture tells us “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord”

It would make sense under this pretense to try and define some threshold of a worthy manner…

Anyways, if anyone knows how these levels of sin became defined in the church please share.

sin is sin…but there is a big difference between my getting upset at my wife in a venial sin of anger…and my killing her …

 

[SaintInk]

Awesome feedback from everyone. Thank you.

I especially appreciate the citations from the Compedium of the Catechismm and John 5:16-17.

I find it interesting as some of my study got me thinking about going to confession before taking the Eucharist and how some sins require that but others dont. We all sin and we must be free from sin when we enter the kingdom of heaven. However, the church teaches us that we can take the Eucharist as long as we have not reached a certain “level” of sin… Definitely something to ponder and I appreciate the intellect and feedback.

 

[hellopeople]

I understand mortal vs. venial, but surely there must be some mortal sins that are worse than others. I will never accept a moral system where rape and murder are on the same level of masturbation.

 

[Bookcat]

I understand mortal vs. venial, but surely there must be some mortal sins that are worse than others. I will never accept a moral system where rape and murder are on the same level of masturbation.

Yes. that is the case. Some mortal sins are worse than other…and the examples you give are correct.

From the Catechism:

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 **The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger. **

 

[Bookcat]

Awesome feedback from everyone. Thank you.

I especially appreciate the citations from the Compedium of the Catechismm and John 5:16-17.

I find it interesting as some of my study got me thinking about going to confession before taking the Eucharist and how some sins require that but others dont. We all sin and we must be free from sin when we enter the kingdom of heaven. However, the church teaches us that we can take the Eucharist as long as we have not reached a certain “level” of sin… Definitely something to ponder and I appreciate the intellect and feedback.

not reaching a particular ‘level’ it is kind. Mortal sins are a chasm in difference in KIND from venial sins (which does not make deliberated venial sins ‘ok’)…the differ in essence.

From the compendium “One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin…”

1. What is required to receive Holy Communion?

1385-1389
1415

To receive Holy Communion one must be fully incorporated into the Catholic Church and be in the state of grace, that is, not conscious of being in mortal sin. Anyone who is conscious of having committed a grave sin must first receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before going to Communion. Also important for those receiving Holy Communion are a spirit of recollection and prayer, observance of the fast prescribed by the Church, and an appropriate disposition of the body (gestures and dress) as a sign of respect for Christ.

 

[Spencerian]

I understand mortal vs. venial, but surely there must be some mortal sins that are worse than others. I will never accept a moral system where rape and murder are on the same level of masturbation.

Hi.

By your statement, you seem to acknowledge that there is a disorder to all three items.

Sin is measured in magnitude, yes. But it is also measured by count. Big or small, sin is sin. It’s like something I say to my son often. “We all will make mistakes. My job as your dad is to ensure you don’t make the mistakes you cannot take back.”

But that’s why Christ came into the world. We as humans sin. A lot. So much so that many of us don’t know we’re doing it.

Christ’s sacrifice tipped the scales, giving all a chance to make recompense. He never expects any of us to be perfect. He only expects us to make a best effort, especially when we don’t like it.

This point is something that people with homosexual desires don’t seem to get, to make an example. The Church doesn’t object to the person they are–they object to any sin. My sins as a heterosexual are just as wrong as a homosexual’s. I might even have a harder time in fighting my own problems. Maybe not,

Being Catholic is not an easy road at all. But trying does count.

Please understand that, with a belief in God, what you feel or accept has little to do with it. It is His will that we must try to adhere to. A will that, while hard to accept or understand, may be an easier path than using our own road.