Leviticus 20:13

[Shaolen]

Im having trouble with this passage. It reads:

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them”

Why Would God command that we put gays to death and that we’re free of sin when doing so? My dad (who is southern Baptist) brings this passage up everytime the topic of homosexuality is brought up. He mentions that Jesus makes this obsolete but he says all this with a tone as if he wish he still could put them to death with it being on them. Can someone help explain this passage?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Does your father similarly agree with all the rules in Leviticus? Does he follow a kosher diet? Does he want to put other people to death as stated in Leviticus? After all, elsewhere in chapter 20 we’re told to put to death anyone who curses father or mother (verse 9); adulterers (verse 10); and mediums or clairvoyants (verse 27).

There’s a fortune teller’s shop not far from my home. I don’t anticipate going there and doing violence to the owner. Similarly, I don’t anticipate doing violence to a gay or lesbian person.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

God didn’t command that “gays” be put to death, but that those who commit homosexual acts be put to death.

 

[Richard_White]

I see this passage as meaning, due to the mortally sinful nature of homosexuality in practice, condemnation to eternal suffering in hell, rather than physical death.

Plus, it is only the moral laws of the Old Testament, such as this one, which continue to hold true and be valid in the New Law and the Catholic Church of Jesus (because moral laws, since they are written in our hearts, our eternal). However, the old ritualistic, sacrificial, ceremonial, and dietary laws of the Old Law and the Old Testament were completelt thrown out, done away with, and have completely passed away in favor of the New Law and the ways of the Catholic Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Kelt]

I see this passage as meaning, due to the mortally sinful nature of homosexuality in practice, condemnation to eternal suffering in hell, rather than physical death.

Plus, it is only the moral laws of the Old Testament, such as this one, which continue to hold true and be valid in the New Law and the Catholic Church of Jesus (because moral laws, since they are written in our hearts, our eternal). However, the old ritualistic, sacrificial, ceremonial, and dietary laws of the Old Law and the Old Testament were completelt thrown out, done away with, and have completely passed away in favor of the New Law and the ways of the Catholic Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

So, why should the ancients who wrote this be right about some bits…but wrong about other bits, which have been swept aside? What did Jesus say about homosexuality?

 

[Mystophilus]

What did Jesus say about homosexuality?

Nothing that was recorded.

 

[Mystophilus]

Can someone help explain this passage?

Not in a way that I expect will be helpful.

Sorry, but I would describe that very simply as an example of homophobia: the writer of the text is so disturbed by people who are different as to want them to be coerced into being “normal”, even by the threat of execution.

 

[sousley]

Im having trouble with this passage. It reads:

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them”

Why Would God command that we put gays to death and that we’re free of sin when doing so? My dad (who is southern Baptist) brings this passage up everytime the topic of homosexuality is brought up. He mentions that Jesus makes this obsolete but he says all this with a tone as if he wish he still could put them to death with it being on them. Can someone help explain this passage?

Hi Shaloen. As Richard White alluded to earlier, these sensible (able to be perceived by the senses) punishments spelled out blatantly in the OT should be seen as an indication of a spiritual death (condemnation). Although Lev 20 indicates that the community is to carry out this sentence, it needs to be understood in the context of a Divine Punishment not as an matter that humanity takes upon itself without God.

Genesis 19:5 is a clear situation of Divine Judgement, but probably the best from Judges 19:22 where we see that even though Israel took to arms in retribution against the men of Gabaa for their offense, they were losing the war effort (trusting their strength of their army) until they repented to consult the Lord about whether they should war against the offenders. Not until they offered sacrifices properly and trusted completely were they successful. Romans 1:26,27 (and elsewhere) reaffirms the moral teaching against this sin but 12:19 reminds us, “Revenge is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

So we should stand firm on the teaching that disordered sexual impulses are crosses to bear and offer up; acting on the impulses in sin and offensive to the Lord; but leave the stones in the driveway. Hope it helps

 

[mikekle]

Does your father similarly agree with all the rules in Leviticus? Does he follow a kosher diet? Does he want to put other people to death as stated in Leviticus? After all, elsewhere in chapter 20 we’re told to put to death anyone who curses father or mother (verse 9); adulterers (verse 10); and mediums or clairvoyants (verse 27).

There’s a fortune teller’s shop not far from my home. I don’t anticipate going there and doing violence to the owner. Similarly, I don’t anticipate doing violence to a gay or lesbian person.

Well, maybe in Gods eyes, you should be doing those things?

Im not advocating violence, but if the bible instructs us to do certain things, who are we to even question God? He is the creator of everything, if he tells you to jump, you say how high, you dont ask whether its right to jump or not…maybe that is real faith, doing something you dont truly think is right, but trusting that God knows better?

Plus, we are putting our own viewpoints on these things too, in humans eyes, its wrong to do anything like that both morally and legally, but again, to God, these things mean nothing. I imagine its extremely difficult to set our human feelings aside and trust in what God tells us…Im no different, I dont go out and kill others for simply cursing God or their parents, or ANY reason…BUT, at the same time, I truly hope Im not held accountable for my non-action when I die too.

 

[TimothyH]

Jesus put an end to killing sinners in the 8th Chapter of John’s Gospel when he stopped the crowd from stoning the woman caught in adultery.

Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:4-7)

We are no longer permitted to kill homosexuals, adulterers, idol worshipers, blasphemers, etc.

-Tim-

 

[Nita]

A nation is responsible for establishing laws to uphold its foundational principles.
The punishments were spelled out by God in the Old Covenant because Israel was to establish itself a nation based on God’s revealed moral code with criminal laws to uphold and enforce that code.

Christianity, however was to be different. Christians were not to be a separate nation. Jesus did not tell His followers to separate themselves from nonbelievers, conquer a territory so they could establish themselves as a separate nation with laws that promoted and enforced the Christian moral code. Rather, He told us to go into all nations, teaching and baptizing. (cf Mt. 28:19-20) We’re to be light, leaven, permeating the nations of the world.

The moral code for Christians has not changed (cf Rom 1:18 - 2:2), but national punitive laws are no longer part of the New Covenant since Christianity was not to be a nation.

 

[Todd977]

Im having trouble with this passage. It reads:

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them”

Why Would God command that we put gays to death and that we’re free of sin when doing so? My dad (who is southern Baptist) brings this passage up everytime the topic of homosexuality is brought up. He mentions that Jesus makes this obsolete but he says all this with a tone as if he wish he still could put them to death with it being on them. Can someone help explain this passage?

God commanded Adam and Eve to increase and multiply. God also promised the Jewish patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that their descendants would be as numerous as the stars. Jews who waste their seed by engaging in homosexual sex (or in heterosexual sex when a woman is menstruating or in sex with animals) are seen as enemies of God, not only disregarding God’s command to Adam and Eve but also trying to thwart God’s promise to the Jewish patriarchs.

 

[Kelt]

God commanded Adam and Eve to increase and multiply. God also promised the Jewish patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that their descendants would be as numerous as the stars. Jews who waste their seed by engaging in homosexual sex (or in heterosexual sex when a woman is menstruating or in sex with animals) are seen as enemies of God, not only disregarding God’s command to Adam and Eve but also trying to thwart God’s promise to the Jewish patriarchs.

In which case incest must have been acceptable.
If one takes the story of Adam and Eve as literal rather than metaphorical, one has to reduce the way we came into existence to a series of magic tricks. The metaphor is simple…it sums up the human condition - how humans evolved to have consciousness and have knowledge of and choice between right and wrong.
I thought Jesus was supposed to have ‘freed’ people from the vengeful god of the OT?

 

[sirach2v4]

Im having trouble with this passage. It reads:

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them”

Why Would God command that we put gays to death and that we’re free of sin when doing so? My dad (who is southern Baptist) brings this passage up everytime the topic of homosexuality is brought up. He mentions that Jesus makes this obsolete but he says all this with a tone as if he wish he still could put them to death with it being on them. Can someone help explain this passage?

You might take this verse as a condemnation of bisexuality, more literally than anything else. But, it seems that Jewish and Christian traditions take it as a condemnation of same-sex sexual expression.

Catholics and a lot of other Christians gloss over something that is very essential about reading of the Old Testament. These laws were an extension of the covenant laws given by God at Mount Sinai – TO THE ISRAELITES. This was one of the terms of the covenant between God and them.

To modern orthodox Jews and probably to ancient Jews as well, the covenant laws were for them alone. According to Jewish traditions, gentiles are not even supposed to attempt to comply with the laws of the Israelite covenant, like Kosher dietary laws or anything else.

TRUTHFULLY, this document (ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCJWSCR.HTM) is considered just a BEGINNING of an attempt to understand the relationship of Old and New Testaments. A more general treatment of this subject may be considered to be given in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

On the related question of stoning them to death, Jesus taught that we much forgive our neighbor seven times seventy.

Think about that. Perhaps a less common way to understand that command of Jesus is that our neighbor might do ONE thing wrong, but we have to forgive him seven times seventy times ( essentially an infinite number of times) for even that one thing – because we may find it difficult to forgive him even ONE time, we should keep forgiving him until WE are convinced that we forgive him for even one trespass.