Lewis' Trilemma

[coolduude]

I think I have reduced Lewis’ Trilemma argument to a mere Dilemma argument as follows:

Jesus was 1 of 3 things (though skeptics will argue there are more alternatives, the “Jesus question” always boils down to these 3 options):
Lunatic- Jesus was crazy
Liar- Jesus lied about His identity
Lord- Jesus told the truth.

Let’s examine the liar option first:
In order for Jesus to be a liar, it must be maintained that Jesus lied about His identity- and knew it. In other words, it was a deliberate misleading of people. However, the fact that Jesus never tries to escape His punishment/death shows that He believed He was telling the truth. Who would really die for what they know, without a doubt, to be wrong? No one would. This leads into the Lunatic option:

Was Jesus a lunatic? After all, He was willing to suffer death for His claims of deity. But he wasn’t crazy enough to make these claims. This can be demonstrated by showing that Jesus 1) avoids traps set by the Pharisees 2) tought very demanding, unequaled, and unparralled moral codes. Crazy people don’t teach things like that. They also have a myriad of other problems that are absent in Jesus.

This all leaves us with 1 option:
Jesus was telling the truth and is therefore who He claimed to be: God.

I can expand on points if needed, but what are some thoughts?

Coolduude.

 

[coolduude]

Bump

 

[Crown_of_Thorns]

I would add - and in some ways this is more important - that the same argument can be used for the veracity of the Apostles’ claims. Everything we know about about Jesus comes from the teaching of the Apostles, and the basis for our faith in their teaching is that we believe in their teaching about the resurrection.

1. All the apostles bar one (St. John) were executed for proclaiming their belief in the resurrection, and all of them were tortured for it. It would be absurd to suggest that they for do this for something they didn’t have good reason to believe.
2. An argument is made by atheists that the apostles were suffering some sort of psychological defect that made them see Christ. But that requires 12 men to simultaneously take leave of their senses, and then go on to proclaim their madness in such a sensible way that many thousands of people came to follow their teaching.
3. It is frankly much more credible to believe that what they taught was true.

 

[Good_News_1]

I’ve never bought this.

Isn’t it theoretically possible that Christ didn’t make the claims that the gospel said he did? Or that he was crazy, but the gospel cleaned up his rough edges? Don’t people believe “crazy” things while not actually being mentally ill?

In other words, the argument rests of the accuracy of scripture. If you were on the fence about Christ’s divinity, wouldn’t you also be on the fence about the accuracy of scripture?

 

[LongJohnSilver]

I don’t think the argument is very convincing either. People indeed believe things that are untrue but would nevertheless die for them. Jehovah Witnesses for instance don’t believe in the divinity of Christ as Christians do, but both groups are willing to die for their beliefs, as history teaches us.

Another argument from Lewis is far more convincing, in my opinion. It’s the argument that the character of Jesus from Nazareth is so exeptional ‘good’, that no human could think it up. It is no wonder that even the most ardent atheist must admit that this Jesus figure is in some way the best prototype of a human being that we know of. Who could think of such a perfect human? Only a perfect divinity could.

 

[coolduude]

I’ve never bought this.

Isn’t it theoretically possible that Christ didn’t make the claims that the gospel said he did? Or that he was crazy, but the gospel cleaned up his rough edges? Don’t people believe “crazy” things while not actually being mentally ill?

In other words, the argument rests of the accuracy of scripture. If you were on the fence about Christ’s divinity, wouldn’t you also be on the fence about the accuracy of scripture?

Here are some links to the historical reliability of the Gospels:
4truth.net/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=hiKXLbPNLrF&b=784441&ct=981289
probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4225535/k.1274/The_Historical_Reliability_of_the_Gospels.htm
bigissueground.com/atheistground/minich-gospels.shtml

Now if you take the time to read those, you will see that the Gospels are, for ancient documents anyway, very accurate and pretty reliable.

Also, you must further ask yourself “if the Gospels aren’t true fact, then why did the writers 1) go through all the trouble to write them and 2) if they aren’t fact, why would the writers die for it?” After all, they were in the perfect position to know what was true and what wasn’t (see video below). I just don’t think the alternatives that you listed can fly when analyzed.

I don’t think the argument is very convincing either. People indeed believe things that are untrue but would nevertheless die for them. Jehovah Witnesses for instance don’t believe in the divinity of Christ as Christians do, but both groups are willing to die for their beliefs, as history teaches us.

Another argument from Lewis is far more convincing, in my opinion. It’s the argument that the character of Jesus from Nazareth is so exeptional ‘good’, that no human could think it up. It is no wonder that even the most ardent atheist must admit that this Jesus figure is in some way the best prototype of a human being that we know of. Who could think of such a perfect human? Only a perfect divinity could.

Your argument falls flat I believe, and here’s why:

youtube.com/watch?v=dIfhy0ug7kM (it’s a 3 minute video, so please watch it if you have the chance).

 

[Mark77]

I’ve never bought this.

Isn’t it theoretically possible that Christ didn’t make the claims that the gospel said he did? Or that he was crazy, but the gospel cleaned up his rough edges? Don’t people believe “crazy” things while not actually being mentally ill?

In other words, the argument rests of the accuracy of scripture. If you were on the fence about Christ’s divinity, wouldn’t you also be on the fence about the accuracy of scripture?

**Those people “on the Fence” always fall off on one side or the other!

Wouldn’t your rather choose to love Jesus???

Think of Humpty Dumpty…"& all the Kings men couldn’t put him back togather again!"**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark