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livingwordunity
Guest
In that case, I should be able to post a thread titled, “Straight kids should not be bullied” without anyone assuming that I’m excluding “gays”.
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peace2u2
Guest
This is the problem with being silent:
While You Were Sleeping song with lyrics:
youtube.com/watch?v=KeqMb57EXR8
United States of America
Looks like another silent night
As we’re sung to sleep by philosophies
That save the trees and kill the children
And while we’re lying in the dark
There’s a shout heard 'cross the eastern sky
For the Bridegroom has returned
And has carried His bride away in the night
America, what will we miss while we are sleeping
Will Jesus come again
And leave us slumbering where we lay
America, will we go down in history
As a nation with no room for its King
Will we be sleeping
Will we be sleeping
United States of America
Looks like another silent night
While You Were Sleeping song with lyrics:
youtube.com/watch?v=KeqMb57EXR8
United States of America
Looks like another silent night
As we’re sung to sleep by philosophies
That save the trees and kill the children
And while we’re lying in the dark
There’s a shout heard 'cross the eastern sky
For the Bridegroom has returned
And has carried His bride away in the night
America, what will we miss while we are sleeping
Will Jesus come again
And leave us slumbering where we lay
America, will we go down in history
As a nation with no room for its King
Will we be sleeping
Will we be sleeping
United States of America
Looks like another silent night
G
gam197
Guest
Love the song - had not heard of it.
Free speech is shut down when it comes to pro-life in schools.
Granted we don’t have the organization yet it seems each time a student takes this on in his/her school, they have to face the principal and then the courts which is pretty intimidating to most students. Because of time involved. it leaves the student feeling defeated so there is little growth within schools for the pro-life events.
I’d love to help out (carry supplies back and forth, etc.) as I am sure many others would too if there were some way of contacting the pro-life students but then again, I bet the schools would say it can only be done by the hands of students.
Pro-life Day is Tuesday, October 15, 2013
Free speech is shut down when it comes to pro-life in schools.
Granted we don’t have the organization yet it seems each time a student takes this on in his/her school, they have to face the principal and then the courts which is pretty intimidating to most students. Because of time involved. it leaves the student feeling defeated so there is little growth within schools for the pro-life events.
I’d love to help out (carry supplies back and forth, etc.) as I am sure many others would too if there were some way of contacting the pro-life students but then again, I bet the schools would say it can only be done by the hands of students.
Pro-life Day is Tuesday, October 15, 2013
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mitex
Guest
Funny because the anti-bullying is protecting life (pro-life?) yet a lot of people are trying to exclude LGBT youth from equal protection. First off just because someone is “gay” doesn’t mean they’re sexually active (celibate homosexual here), and thirdly they have human dignity just like everyone else.
Fourth when you all say anti-bullying prohibits free speech and religious let’s talk about what happens when a teenager speaks the “truth” to a gay teen (or perceived to be gay): They swear, they yell, they push, they act with hatred, and disgust.
Believe me I got a lot that in high school when I came out in my small town. I told everyone I was celibate but they spoke the “truth” to me anyway, and the truth was nothing more than bullying.
You can believe homosexual acts are sinful like I do, and still combat bullying, and save lives of gay teens. But I don’t see any ideas on how to do that here.
Fourth when you all say anti-bullying prohibits free speech and religious let’s talk about what happens when a teenager speaks the “truth” to a gay teen (or perceived to be gay): They swear, they yell, they push, they act with hatred, and disgust.
Believe me I got a lot that in high school when I came out in my small town. I told everyone I was celibate but they spoke the “truth” to me anyway, and the truth was nothing more than bullying.
You can believe homosexual acts are sinful like I do, and still combat bullying, and save lives of gay teens. But I don’t see any ideas on how to do that here.
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DexUK
Guest
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fix
Guest
Singling out this one agenda is not needed. If you want anti bullying issues to be discussed that is one thing. Propaganda is another.
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DexUK
Guest
It’s hardly propaganda to seek to combat a culture of abuse, bullying and intolerance based on a single characteristic of a whole person, despite the possibility that such a characteristic may be felt as intrinsic to an individual’s sense of personhood as this.
When the world repeatedly witnesses teens committing suicide because of anti-homosexual abuse (regardless of whether that teen was actually homosexual or not) then a campaign against such abuse will have my wholehearted support. I’ll worry about potential private sins of these kids later: their lives should be worth far more to us in the present moment.
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fix
Guest
We are not defined by our disordered desires. To make this aspect of one’s personality into a type of god is wrong. Anti bullying should be based on a standard that is consistent.
Suicide is due to mental illness. The issue is better mental health care, not propaganda campaigns.
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fix
Guest
I did not say all anti bullying was propaganda. I said this particular issue is propaganda.
Prevention of school bullying or re-education camp?
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DexUK
Guest
And ‘mental illness’ - as you put it - may be imposed upon someone by constant repetition of abusive insults and accusations from which they have no escape. Tell someone they’re sinful for often enough about something that they feel that they have no control over and they’ll believe it and fall into despair.
Despair, the lack of hope for any mercy from God, as I’m sure you know, is a sin. But it would be equally a sin to cause someone else to be in that state.
I’ve seen accounts from people driven to suicide who stated that if they were damned for all eternity because of their sexual orientation, they might as well get it over with now. Tell people they have nothing to live for and it’s not surprising if some of them choose not to live.
I can’t believe you would be advocating such a position, and I don’t think you are, but you would be best advised to choose your expression of your belief in such a way as you do not have inadvertent mortal consequences on other people. For that reason I will not be agreeing with you.
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fix
Guest
Let’s not blame society here. There is non stop affirmation for this dis-orientation. In fact, never in history has there been such a push to normalize what is not normal.
Suicide is a mental health issue. There is no way around that.
If you want to help people then let us not make this disorder into something to affirm and celebrate. That is not only a lie but leads people into darkness.
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DexUK
Guest
Yes, of course it’s a mental health issue. When a child is harangued for being gay, beaten up at school, belittled, teased and bullied, whose voice do you suppose he hears? The voice of the politician on the TV or the daily taunts of those attacking him for something over which he doesn’t have any control?
Do you suppose that this “non stop affirmation” has any impact in this boy’s life when physical fists are hitting him and he is being told that he is unnatural, immoral and evil? Just for having the temerity to admit that he has feelings for the same gender rather than the opposite one? What do you suppose this so-called ‘non stop affirmation’ does for him in his life? It’s not the teachers that are hitting him in class… it’s his peers that corner him in the school yard, frog march him to the toilets and push his head down the toilet and flush it… it’s the teenagers who drag him behind a dumpster and** threaten to beat him while calling him disgusting names**… it’s the whispering behind his back to all the other kids at school that he’s a weakling or effeminate or all manner of insults that I won’t, for reasons of politeness, recount here… it’s the deliberate shoving in the hallways so that he drops his books and the continuous stream of petty cruelties… it’s that taunts that anyone he even so much as brushes past will ‘catch gay’ from him… It’s these and a thousand other evil ways that kids can dream up to torment and victimise other kids out of the gaze of teachers. And you want this campaign against homophobic bullying to go away because you think it’s indoctrinating people?
Am I angry about this? Too damn right I am.
I am a member of the human race. Every cruelty, every injustice, every person that walks on by as another suffers affects me personally. It offends me to the core of my soul.
When our children are driven to the brink of suicide and beyond because they are tormented and bullied by others, too right I’m going to support a campaign to end the suffering they endure. And nobody, not you, not a priest or a prelate, will EVER convince me to change my mind about that.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
When you set aside a particular population which is especially “more important” NOT to bully, there is an implied comparison: bullying offenses against other populations are less serious, less offensive, and less prosecutable.
This is what’s known as terrible policy – for everything even the most diehard “individual rightists” and “special protection” advocates-- would have to admit is anti-constitutional as hell. It violates the principles of universal justice on which the constitution was laid, because it undermines the very concept of equal dignity.
Here, one could get into a very delicate and involved argument, actually, on whether the more modern legal concept of “protected classes” does itself do violence to blind (non-discriminatory) justice. And yes, this is not “law” per se, but in many jurisdictions in this country bad policy and formal initiatives can and have quickly and quietly become codified. (Many people, on constitutional grounds and on criminal justice grounds, oppose a similar concept of “hate laws” for the same reason of implicit hierarchies, which signify strata of “worth.” Quite an irony given 20th century civil rights struggles in this country, which attempted to demolish those very distinctions.)
Take, for example, the situations at least one, maybe more than one, poster has mentioned on this or the mirror thread: Students who get picked on for appearing to be “gay” (by some clueless, hung-up, insecure student) but is not. So I guess if the target alleges (it’s actually NOBODY’S BUSINESS, but I’ll finish the example) that he is a heterosexual instead, the bullying is not “as serious” as if the target truly was homosexual? Unimaginably bad policy. Further (related example), let’s say once the target denies being homosexual, the perp also denies having targeted him for that, and there’s no concrete proof other than a war of allegations. Perp is off the hook for ‘not having targeted anyone LGBT,’ which simultaneously means his “lesser” bullying is indirectly being validated, as a consequence.
There is nothing American about this, and nothing Christian about this.
This is what’s known as terrible policy – for everything even the most diehard “individual rightists” and “special protection” advocates-- would have to admit is anti-constitutional as hell. It violates the principles of universal justice on which the constitution was laid, because it undermines the very concept of equal dignity.
Here, one could get into a very delicate and involved argument, actually, on whether the more modern legal concept of “protected classes” does itself do violence to blind (non-discriminatory) justice. And yes, this is not “law” per se, but in many jurisdictions in this country bad policy and formal initiatives can and have quickly and quietly become codified. (Many people, on constitutional grounds and on criminal justice grounds, oppose a similar concept of “hate laws” for the same reason of implicit hierarchies, which signify strata of “worth.” Quite an irony given 20th century civil rights struggles in this country, which attempted to demolish those very distinctions.)
Take, for example, the situations at least one, maybe more than one, poster has mentioned on this or the mirror thread: Students who get picked on for appearing to be “gay” (by some clueless, hung-up, insecure student) but is not. So I guess if the target alleges (it’s actually NOBODY’S BUSINESS, but I’ll finish the example) that he is a heterosexual instead, the bullying is not “as serious” as if the target truly was homosexual? Unimaginably bad policy. Further (related example), let’s say once the target denies being homosexual, the perp also denies having targeted him for that, and there’s no concrete proof other than a war of allegations. Perp is off the hook for ‘not having targeted anyone LGBT,’ which simultaneously means his “lesser” bullying is indirectly being validated, as a consequence.
There is nothing American about this, and nothing Christian about this.
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fix
Guest
So all the mental problems associated with “gay” identity are from these actions?
Those actions are wrong no matter one’s inclinations. That is the point.
All those actions are wrong and do not occur only to those who claim to be “gay”. Are you just concerned about “gay” persons?
Great, then you are concerned when the cruel agenda inflicts itself on innocent children under the guise of “anti bullying” propaganda.
You have an agenda. No one will change your mind.
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fix
Guest
Do not use logic or reason. Use hyper emotionalism. That way you always get the conclusion you desire.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
I have a better idea, but fix won’t like it because it’s logical. 
In particular, regarding protecting LGBT (or, LGBTQ) students, the overriding principle (which also protects non-LGBT students) is one of Privacy. Sexuality falls into the category of privacy. It’s no one’s damn business that I’m straight. It wasn’t in grammar school. It isn’t (publicy) now. I am not asked for my “orientation” on employment applications, and if I were, you best believe that, although straight, I would march my very straight, very female body into the EEOC office and complain like Hell. (In my case, I would be concerned not only for the general principle, and not only for invasion of privacy, but for reasons having to do with the motivations of my employer, if male.)
Many targets of bullying are targeted for their “secrecy,” or for suspected secrets. In those cases, the exercise of bullying is an attempt to flush out the (various) secrets. And secrecy, or privacy, is an aspect of the dignity of the human person – which again, even the most diehard constitutional modernists agree – is worth protecting, equally, across the board.
Neither adults nor minors have a right to invade the privacy of another. As this violation is often “the gateway drug” to full-out bullying, schools would do far better to begin with (not end with) a zero tolerance policy about invasion of privacy, first of all. (Some students are targeted for having parents with checkered pasts or controversial identity, such as out-of-wedlock births, immigration status, suspected religious affiliation – such as Palestinian Christians assumed to be Muslims – etc.)
In particular, regarding protecting LGBT (or, LGBTQ) students, the overriding principle (which also protects non-LGBT students) is one of Privacy. Sexuality falls into the category of privacy. It’s no one’s damn business that I’m straight. It wasn’t in grammar school. It isn’t (publicy) now. I am not asked for my “orientation” on employment applications, and if I were, you best believe that, although straight, I would march my very straight, very female body into the EEOC office and complain like Hell. (In my case, I would be concerned not only for the general principle, and not only for invasion of privacy, but for reasons having to do with the motivations of my employer, if male.)
Many targets of bullying are targeted for their “secrecy,” or for suspected secrets. In those cases, the exercise of bullying is an attempt to flush out the (various) secrets. And secrecy, or privacy, is an aspect of the dignity of the human person – which again, even the most diehard constitutional modernists agree – is worth protecting, equally, across the board.
Neither adults nor minors have a right to invade the privacy of another. As this violation is often “the gateway drug” to full-out bullying, schools would do far better to begin with (not end with) a zero tolerance policy about invasion of privacy, first of all. (Some students are targeted for having parents with checkered pasts or controversial identity, such as out-of-wedlock births, immigration status, suspected religious affiliation – such as Palestinian Christians assumed to be Muslims – etc.)
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DexUK
Guest
I hope you won’t take it askance when I admit that I did rather have a bit of a chuckle at that
It was I, and others, who mentioned this situation.
Just to clarify, the GSA Network opposes harassment and bullying based on “actual or perceived sexual orientation.” So that would cover the non-SSA student who is being called anti-gay names in the first situation, and the second, too, if the student could prove it.
They also oppose harassment and bullying based on gender, which they interpret to include “gender nonconformity.” They give the example of a boy being called anti-gay names (even if not implying that he’s actually SSA, but just as a putdown) “because his mannerisms are perceived as ‘effeminate’ or he is in a dance class.”
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