LGBT saints?

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I know LGBT issues can be controversial but I was just wondering whether the example of any saints can inform discussion. For example I understand St Aelred is said to have written some helpful things.

Of course I know we live in ‘sexualised’ times, very different from the times of many of the saints… but this All saintstide I just wondered.

For all the - LGBT - saints?
 
I’ve looked around for information about this a few times.Most sites that claim certain saints as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered are already homosexual-propaganda websites.

It’s hard to trust the reports of those with a very strong pro-LGBT agenda, such as those who made that Episcopalian website you linked to. Making Ss. Perpetua & Felicty into lesbian lovers is ridiculously bad Historiography. St. Aelred of Rievaulx wrote many treatises on friendship… therefore, gay? No logic!

The nature of saints is such that they do not declare their sexual identity to the world. After all, apart from chastity, celibacy, or good decorum, this could be a matter of pride. To announce your own singularity is not the purpose or practice of saints.

As one who is conflicted by my own exclusive same-sex attractions - but is also interested in holiness and the love of God - none of this interests me. In my opinion, it should not interest anyone, gay or straight. We are saints based on how well our humanity is conformed to the sacred human incarnation of Christ, and, through that, the Divinity of Christ. Sexual orientation is nothing.
 
I’ve looked around for information about this a few times.Most sites that claim certain saints as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered are already homosexual-propaganda websites.

It’s hard to trust the reports of those with a very strong pro-LGBT agenda, such as those who made that Episcopalian website you linked to. Making Ss. Perpetua & Felicty into lesbian lovers is ridiculously bad Historiography. St. Aelred of Rievaulx wrote many treatises on friendship… therefore, gay? No logic!

The nature of saints is such that they do not declare their sexual identity to the world. After all, apart from chastity, celibacy, or good decorum, this could be a matter of pride. To announce your own singularity is not the purpose or practice of saints.

As one who is conflicted by my own exclusive same-sex attractions - but is also interested in holiness and the love of God - none of this interests me. In my opinion, it should not interest anyone, gay or straight. We are saints based on how well our humanity is conformed to the sacred human incarnation of Christ, and, through that, the Divinity of Christ. Sexual orientation is nothing.
Wow. Well stated. God bless you.
 
I’ve looked around for information about this a few times.Most sites that claim certain saints as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered are already homosexual-propaganda websites.

It’s hard to trust the reports of those with a very strong pro-LGBT agenda, such as those who made that Episcopalian website you linked to. Making Ss. Perpetua & Felicty into lesbian lovers is ridiculously bad Historiography. St. Aelred of Rievaulx wrote many treatises on friendship… therefore, gay? No logic!

The nature of saints is such that they do not declare their sexual identity to the world. After all, apart from chastity, celibacy, or good decorum, this could be a matter of pride. To announce your own singularity is not the purpose or practice of saints.

As one who is conflicted by my own exclusive same-sex attractions - but is also interested in holiness and the love of God - none of this interests me. In my opinion, it should not interest anyone, gay or straight. We are saints based on how well our humanity is conformed to the sacred human incarnation of Christ, and, through that, the Divinity of Christ. Sexual orientation is nothing.
Incredible post. Thank you for your honesty. Although he is not yet a saint, I recommend you look up Father Michael Judge. He was a Franciscan Friar and fire chaplain before he died on 911. He provided a lot of ministry for gays in New York, particularly those who suffered from the AIDS epidemic. He was gay himself, and offered an honest and powerful perspective on the challenges this brought to his life and priesthood. He visited one man who was dying of aids, and when the man asked Father Judge if God hates him, he picked him up and kissed him on the head to comfort him. This kind of compassion filled his life. There are many articles and documentaries about him available online. Also, if you are ever in New York, I recommend a visit to the Church he was affiliated with. It is a friary that serves as a Shrine for Saint Anthony, and it is gorgeous. The mural above the altar radiates Heaven.
 
I would question this site on many grounds, starting with this:
So many of the saints are western, white and single and there seem to be more men than women.
They seem to lack an understanding of where ‘saints’ even come from, and what the term means. The statement made me question how often they’ve actually read any Lives of the Saints. A Saint by definition, is one whom the Catholic Church has investigated and found evidence they are in Heaven.

By definition, they investigate Catholics. Saints are heroes and role models of the *Catholic *faith. Being that Catholicism has been more a religion of the west than the east, it’s hardly surprising that there would be an abundance of westerners–who are often white. The article shortly after questions why there are no saints of other faiths. Again…well, because the *Catholic *Church doesn’t investigate the lives of others outside the Catholic faith for canonization. Buddhists and HIndus can declare saints among their faiths if they like, and I, for one, would not care that Catholics are not on the list, because they’re declaring heroes of the *Buddhist *faith, of which I am not a member!

On the second count, to have a list of canonized Saints never meant that they believe no one else is in Heaven except these people, making their tongue in cheek remark that “the Church Triumphant isn’t very inclusive.” rather silly, and another demonstration of their lack of understanding that on which they write.

On the third count, I am as familiar with any number of female saints as with men. This is just a ridiculous statement.

Finally, those included on the list are suspect. Perpetua and Felicity have already been mentioned. I have some very close female friends. This doesn’t make me a lesbian. This is simply ridiculous logic.

I looked further and found “Saint” Edward II, king of England. Edward II of England is not a canonized saint. I question, too, the history they give of him, even apart from claiming he’s a saint.

I clicked on Saint Julian of Norwich, someone with whom I’m somewhat familiar, having recently done a study on her. Their article says:
Mother Julian qualifies as transgendered for her name, if nothing else
I read the rest and could still find no basis other than that for calling her transgendered. They quote some of her writings saying, All will be well, and assuring us that God loves every living thing. This hardly makes one transgendered.

Praedicare makes excellent points.

I would add, there may well be saints who struggled with same sex attraction, but there is not going to be a ‘saint’ who lived a life of active, open, *unrepentant *homosexuality, because this would not be a life of heroic virtue.

*Every *saint would have cared for and loved any person with same sex attraction because every person is a child of God. This doesn’t mean they approve of the behavior, any more than lifting a drug addict out of the gutter and caring for him means someone approves of using drugs. So there may be already or one day, a patron saint of homosexuals, but it’s not going to mean that this saint was gay and has been named a heroic role model. It’s going to mean that this saint had a great heart for those struggling with same sex attraction. It’s going to be the saint people would pray to when they’re struggling with it, not as proof that the behavior itself is godly.
 
Personally, I think that it would be wonderful if there were some saints who were known to have been LGBT and so on. NOT ones who were acting on their disordered desires and inclinations but those who showed that it is possible for a person with those same crosses to overcome those temptations just as we have seen with heterosexual saints do. In fact, we really need some examples like them for the new generations coming up who feel free enough to announce these disorders and give them an alternative to being “proud” of them but to rather be proud of accepting the grace to overcome those and other crosses they bear like everyone else should whatever those crosses are. 👍
 
Personally, I think that it would be wonderful if there were some saints who were known to have been LGBT and so on. NOT ones who were acting on their disordered desires and inclinations but those who showed that it is possible for a person with those same crosses to overcome those temptations just as we have seen with heterosexual saints do. In fact, we really need some examples like them for the new generations coming up who feel free enough to announce these disorders and give them an alternative to being “proud” of them but to rather be proud of accepting the grace to overcome those and other crosses they bear like everyone else should whatever those crosses are. 👍
I can agree with you in that sense, given our modern world.

But that of course is not what the sight is claiming. And over the last 30 years, so many historical figures have been declared ‘gay’ that it would be hard to trust such a declaration, anyway.
 
I think the generation we’re living in right now is what will lead to a few SSA saints in the long-term, since it has become a fresh issue in the postmodernist age.

There weren’t any Catholic Reformation saints during the time of the Catholic Reformation. There weren’t any WW2 saints during the time of WW2. There aren’t any postmodernist saints during the time of postmodernism. Right now, they’re living people on Earth.

I do disagree that any saints with SSA would never disclose this or become a patron of such things. There are plenty of Catholic SSA spokespeople as we speak that talk about the issue and how to grow spiritually through it; these people are a greatly-needed oasis, not prideful. It’s quite clear that it’s an issue that is distinct from other sexuality and merits its own reflections, apologetics, meditations, etc. Yes, in a general sense, a heterosexual person and an SSA person are both flesh & blood human beings that are tempted, and they’re both obliged to supplicate to God for the necessary grace to live holy lives, which God will grant to them, but SSA unquestionably has its own cross and uniqueness; you can see that from watching the Desire of the Everlasting Hills video on this website.
 
**I’ve looked around for information about this a few times.Most sites that claim certain saints as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered are already homosexual-propaganda websites.
**
It’s hard to trust the reports of those with a very strong pro-LGBT agenda, such as those who made that Episcopalian website you linked to. Making Ss. Perpetua & Felicty into lesbian lovers is ridiculously bad Historiography. St. Aelred of Rievaulx wrote many treatises on friendship… therefore, gay? No logic!

The nature of saints is such that they do not declare their sexual identity to the world. After all, apart from chastity, celibacy, or good decorum, this could be a matter of pride. To announce your own singularity is not the purpose or practice of saints.

As one who is conflicted by my own exclusive same-sex attractions - but is also interested in holiness and the love of God - none of this interests me. In my opinion, it should not interest anyone, gay or straight. We are saints based on how well our humanity is conformed to the sacred human incarnation of Christ, and, through that, the Divinity of Christ. Sexual orientation is nothing.
bold: pretty much this.

Though not involving saints, there was one website, one that of a transgendered person who was a practicing Catholic saying that Aquinas’ 5 Ways actually supported transgenderism.

I was impressed to see a practicing Catholic, who as a transgender person, let alone delve in philosophical writing such as 5 Ways as frame work to faith, but was disappointed to see that the writer devoted so much time & effort using the 5 Ways to prove that her condition was “as valid” as heterosexuals. I felt like I just read a very thoughtful blog about how the writer thought Jesus would actually side with the hippies and was a liberal, just in a much more sophisticated manner, though interesting, not really persuasive.
 
I believe that the Church has never denied that Bl. John Newman and Father Ambrose St. John were of the homosexual inclination. They were reportedly chaste all their lives. They lived together for many, many years and were totally devoted to each other. After Fr. St. John’s death, Newman was inconsolable. He specifically requested that upon his own death that he be buried with Fr. St. John, a command that was carried out.
 
It seems like some gays want to declare any really famous person in history as gay, like President Lincoln. If the person can’t speak up for themselves and has died than they can get away with it for some to believe.

Haven’t you even heard of some militant gays saying Jesus and his apostles had a special relationship? It can get strange so why go there.
 
I don’t trust sites who say that certain saints fell anywhere in the “LGBT” acronym.

To be sure, there probably have been saints who had attraction to the same gender. They just weren’t open about it. The point is that their primary vocation was to celibacy, the gender they were attracted to really doesn’t matter much.
 
I believe that the Church has never denied that Bl. John Newman and Father Ambrose St. John were of the homosexual inclination. They were reportedly chaste all their lives. They lived together for many, many years and were totally devoted to each other. After Fr. St. John’s death, Newman was inconsolable. He specifically requested that upon his own death that he be buried with Fr. St. John, a command that was carried out.
The Church hasn’t denied this because there is no substance to deny. There is no evidence that Bl. Newman was a homosexual who remained chaste other than salacious gossip and tendentious reading into his writings.
 
About Saints Perpetua and Felicity: This is a comment from the link provided:

“St. Perpetua was married and had a baby. Her servant was St Felicity. They were not great sinners. They were great saints. There are no such thing as an LGBT Saint. Either you are converted from your Mortal Sins or you are not. Same for any sinner. Either you repent of offending God and others or you try to get your sins validated by your own revisionist history….”

Perpetua & Felicity were NOT lesbian lovers!
 
I believe that the Church has never denied that Bl. John Newman and Father Ambrose St. John were of the homosexual inclination. They were reportedly chaste all their lives. They lived together for many, many years and were totally devoted to each other. After Fr. St. John’s death, Newman was inconsolable. He specifically requested that upon his own death that he be buried with Fr. St. John, a command that was carried out.
I’ve never heard anything at all about John Newman and/or Father Ambrose having any such inclinations. Does the church agree that they did or do they simply ‘not deny it?’ Because not denying may only mean that they aren’t bothering answering such a charge. Living together and being good friends does not make two men (or two women) gay.
It seems like some gays want to declare any really famous person in history as gay, like President Lincoln. If the person can’t speak up for themselves and has died than they can get away with it for some to believe.

Haven’t you even heard of some militant gays saying Jesus and his apostles had a special relationship? It can get strange so why go there.
This is exactly it. It’s a witch hunt of sorts, to dig up any tiny little thing and claim that proves someone is LGBT. As I mentioned about Julian of Norwich–they had to resort to using her name as evidence she was ‘transgendered.’ They’re grasping at straws. But the sad thing is, there are enough people who want to believe this, and want to spread these lies, that they’ll just repeat this stuff ad nauseum, without stopping to consider how senseless it really is.
 
The Church hasn’t denied this because there is no substance to deny. There is no evidence that Bl. Newman was a homosexual who remained chaste other than salacious gossip and tendentious reading into his writings.
I’ve never heard anything at all about John Newman and/or Father Ambrose having any such inclinations. Does the church agree that they did or do they simply ‘not deny it?’ Because not denying may only mean that they aren’t bothering answering such a charge. Living together and being good friends does not make two men (or two women) gay.
With all due respect, Newman and St. John were much more than just “good friends”. And I just don’t see what is so “salacious” about two chaste people who loved each other. But everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, I guess. 🤷
 
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